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  #136  
Old 08-18-2007, 11:56 AM
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Actually, there's a computer store right around the corner. I went in, bought up some cheapo USB-Serial adapters, then went out to my car and (from the driver's seat! Boy it's cramped! ) went to work.

The FIRST adapter I tried fired right up. I sent the device:

78123400

And all of a sudden, hex code splashed across the screen. So I stopped it and tried the TCU. The TCU sent hex code as well, but it was noticeably faster.

Now here comes the problem...

The ECU is speaking gibberish. Complete and utter gibberish. The TCU is coherent, sending the same code and sending it very quickly. The ECU is about half as fast as the TCU, and sends a whole bunch of junk. Kevin's software can't lock onto a ROM ID to even begin to read.
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  #137  
Old 08-18-2007, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomake Wan
Actually, there's a computer store right around the corner. I went in, bought up some cheapo USB-Serial adapters, then went out to my car and (from the driver's seat! Boy it's cramped! ) went to work.

The FIRST adapter I tried fired right up. I sent the device:

78123400

And all of a sudden, hex code splashed across the screen. So I stopped it and tried the TCU. The TCU sent hex code as well, but it was noticeably faster.
WooHoo! I remember how excited I was the first time I saw that happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomake Wan
Now here comes the problem...

The ECU is speaking gibberish. Complete and utter gibberish. The TCU is coherent, sending the same code and sending it very quickly. The ECU is about half as fast as the TCU, and sends a whole bunch of junk. Kevin's software can't lock onto a ROM ID to even begin to read.
That's really disappointing. Sounds like the exactly same problem as my 92 and some other cars. Please can you save a sample of it to a file for me to confirm.
Next question, do you know any other SVX or OBD1 Subaru owners in your area who would let you try it on their cars?

92 JDM VL (mine) = ECU - no, TCU - yes
94 JDM S40ii (mine) = ECU - yes, TCU - yes
92 JDM VL (Ron) = ECU - no, TCU - yes
92 JDM VL (SVXistentialist) = ECU - yes, TCU - yes
95 UK (SVXistentialist) = ECU - no, TCU - yes
92 USDM (UPnorth362) = ECU - no
94 USDM (UPnorth362) = ECU - yes
92 USDM (racerx9146) = ECU - yes
92 USDM (NomakeWan) = ECU - no, TCU - yes
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Subaru ECU and TCU Website
1992 Alcyone SVX Version L
1992 Alcyone SVX Version L
1994 Alcyone SVX S40-II
2004 Subaru Legacy 2.5 SE Sports Tourer
1996 Subaru Legacy 2.2 GX Wagon
1988 Subaru Justy J12 SL-II
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  #138  
Old 08-18-2007, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor
Hi Phil,

You mention of noise, makes me wonder as to whether the ECU in question, particularly '92, have had the ferrite bead crushed, as per the much publicized mod.

Cheers, Trevor.
Hi Trevor,

My mention of noise is pure speculation since I have neither the skills nor the tools to troubleshoot the problem. As you mentioned elsewhere we need an electronics guy with a scope to take a look at it.

Phil.
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1992 Alcyone SVX Version L
1992 Alcyone SVX Version L
1994 Alcyone SVX S40-II
2004 Subaru Legacy 2.5 SE Sports Tourer
1996 Subaru Legacy 2.2 GX Wagon
1988 Subaru Justy J12 SL-II
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  #139  
Old 08-18-2007, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b3lha
Please can you save a sample of it to a file for me to confirm.
Next question, do you know any other SVX or OBD1 Subaru owners in your area who would let you try it on their cars?
I'll go out and save a sample from the hex tool ASAP.

As for other owners... I'm afraid I just don't know that many people here. If I see another pre-OBDII Subaru around, I'll try to hit up the owner and see if they're friendly enough to let me touch their ECU. Sadly the number of old Legacys and SVXs around here is very close to zero...
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  #140  
Old 08-18-2007, 02:33 PM
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Double-posting because it's JUST THAT IMPORTANT.

Erase what you wrote there. My ECU works just fine.

You know what it was? The CABLE. When I first tested the new adapter, I used this setup:

Laptop-->USB Cable-->USB2Serial-->Box-->Car

When I went out there just now, I used this setup:

Laptop-->USB2Serial-->Serial Cable-->Box-->Car

The ECU returned proper data. When queried with 78123400, it returned 123400123400123400123400123400123400... I was shocked by how uniform the data was, so I ran Kevin's tool.

My ECU ID is: 722525. Comes up each and every time. Kevin's tool also runs properly and loads the values you put in there. I have noticed that as it scans, it occasionally receives null values (gauges return to zero), then suddenly will pick up the values again and display them normally. Does this happen with your 94 as well? Is it just Kevin's software? The Com Tool doesn't experience any delay with the ECU...

So yeah! Oh and I promised dumps from the ECU and TCU, so here you go... they're attached...

Oh man... I have such a huge stupid grin on my face... wow...
Attached Files
File Type: txt ECU RX.txt (3.7 KB, 419 views)
File Type: txt TCU RX.txt (1.4 KB, 354 views)
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  #141  
Old 08-19-2007, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomake Wan
Double-posting because it's JUST THAT IMPORTANT.

Erase what you wrote there. My ECU works just fine.

You know what it was? The CABLE. When I first tested the new adapter, I used this setup:

Laptop-->USB Cable-->USB2Serial-->Box-->Car

When I went out there just now, I used this setup:

Laptop-->USB2Serial-->Serial Cable-->Box-->Car

The ECU returned proper data. When queried with 78123400, it returned 123400123400123400123400123400123400... I was shocked by how uniform the data was, so I ran Kevin's tool.
That is awesome news! Any idea why the cable only affected the ECU and not the TCU? That gives me hope that there may be a solution to the problem with my 92. But I am not using USB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomake Wan
My ECU ID is: 722525. Comes up each and every time. Kevin's tool also runs properly and loads the values you put in there. I have noticed that as it scans, it occasionally receives null values (gauges return to zero), then suddenly will pick up the values again and display them normally. Does this happen with your 94 as well? Is it just Kevin's software? The Com Tool doesn't experience any delay with the ECU...
I've noticed this as well. I had the same problem with the first version of my linux software. I think it is due to the lack of flow control. The software must read the values as fast as the ECU is sending them (which isn't very fast). If the input buffer on the PC fills up then some bytes are lost and it can get out of sync. Kevins software does not validate the incoming address bytes, it just assumes every third byte is data. If an unknown number of bytes are lost then it will pick up spurious data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomake Wan
So yeah! Oh and I promised dumps from the ECU and TCU, so here you go... they're attached...

Oh man... I have such a huge stupid grin on my face... wow...
The dumps look good. I'm glad you got it working.
92 JDM VL (mine) = ECU - no, TCU - yes
94 JDM S40ii (mine) = ECU - yes, TCU - yes
92 JDM VL (Ron) = ECU - no, TCU - yes
92 JDM VL (SVXistentialist) = ECU - yes, TCU - yes
95 UK (SVXistentialist) = ECU - no, TCU - yes
92 USDM (UPnorth362) = ECU - no
94 USDM (UPnorth362) = ECU - yes
92 USDM (racerx9146) = ECU - yes
92 USDM (NomakeWan) = ECU - yes , TCU - yes
Phil.
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1992 Alcyone SVX Version L
1992 Alcyone SVX Version L
1994 Alcyone SVX S40-II
2004 Subaru Legacy 2.5 SE Sports Tourer
1996 Subaru Legacy 2.2 GX Wagon
1988 Subaru Justy J12 SL-II
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  #142  
Old 08-19-2007, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b3lha
That is awesome news! Any idea why the cable only affected the ECU and not the TCU? That gives me hope that there may be a solution to the problem with my 92. But I am not using USB.
I wondered this as well. I have no real clue why the ECU sent junk data and yet the TCU sent coherent data. Are they different microprocessors? My theory on it would be that they actually use slightly different transmission patterns... so one of them is closer to one end of the serial transmission protocol than the other... so then one would be more "forgiving" than the other... or something.

I have NO clue to be honest. I'm really tempted to go back out to the car, switch back to the old cable scheme, and get a dump of the computers to show you. I have no idea whatsoever why the heck switching the cables sloved the problem, but...it did...

EDIT: Okay, now I have NO clue what the heck is going on. I just went out to the car and hooked up the serial adapter the same exact way I had originally. Turned ignition switch to on, opened my port, then sent the ECU signal. I got back coherent data. It ran just fine.

So what caused the original ECU transmission malfunction? No clue here. Looks like it was a one-time thing. It happened once, when I first tried it. And now it doesn't happen at all.

Last edited by Nomake Wan; 08-19-2007 at 01:13 PM.
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  #143  
Old 08-19-2007, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomake Wan
As for other owners... I'm afraid I just don't know that many people here. If I see another pre-OBDII Subaru around, I'll try to hit up the owner and see if they're friendly enough to let me touch their ECU. Sadly the number of old Legacys and SVXs around here is very close to zero...
If you decide to make a cross country trip, I'd be more than willing to let you at my ECU, and make it display pretty things...
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94 LSi 5spd Barcelona Red, 14Xk miles.

Full custom exhaust (Stebro cat-back, custom rest of the way forward) 8000K HID kit from Tom (SVXfiles), Energy Suspension front sway bar bushings, Non-Droopy visors, Race Concepts C/D + Dimpled Rotors, Axxis Ultimate pads,SS brake lines, Bontrager Works #009 (or something like that), stripped interior.

(up next) Full cage, fuel cell, 327 swap
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  #144  
Old 08-19-2007, 06:11 PM
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so... just looking at the 1st 30 posts and you have me interested... You are making a data-logger that functions on the same basis as the select monitor... Thats all I need to know... Where and how can I sign up

tom
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  #145  
Old 08-19-2007, 09:50 PM
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Ridered777: Sadly I already made a cross-country trip to get where I am... But you could always pick up or make an interface yourself and do the same as I am!

TomsSVX: You have two options right now. Either buy an interface box from Phil (PM him about that) or make one yourself. The instructions on how to put one together are on his site, and I have a complete parts list that an electronics friend of mine put together for me to make shopping for the parts more easy if you do go the DIY route. Either way, you're going to need either a computer with a serial port, or a USB-Serial adapter (that works properly).

Phil's Site (build instructions are in a link in the first paragraph): http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm/

My parts list: http://www.stormpages.com/shiroclanc...ntoolParts.txt
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  #146  
Old 08-20-2007, 01:03 AM
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USB to RS-232 to TTL

Here's another option that does it all-in-one if you want to end up with USB:
http://www.superdroidrobots.com/shop...asp?itemid=795
More info in this PDF document:
http://www.superdroidrobots.com/prod...TTL_Cables.pdf
Price is $34.00 plus $5.40 for USPS Priority Mail.

Just add the 9-pin ECU/radio connector and wire up the TXD, RXD, and Ground pins.

Power for the converter is provided by the PC's USB port, so no connection to the car's +12V (and no 12V to 5V converter) is needed.

Here's another one, in the UK:
http://apple.clickandbuild.com/cnb/s...R+and+variants
There are likely cheaper ones out there. I'll look some more when I have a chance.
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  #147  
Old 08-20-2007, 01:22 AM
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Yeah, that's not a bad option. So you don't need circuits of any kind? It just does USB-->ECU? I didn't know that, that's really freakin' cool.
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  #148  
Old 08-20-2007, 02:46 AM
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I wish I had known about those USB to TTL cables before I started this project. It would have saved me some time, effort and money.
I'm tempted to get one and see if it will work on my 92.
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1992 Alcyone SVX Version L
1992 Alcyone SVX Version L
1994 Alcyone SVX S40-II
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1996 Subaru Legacy 2.2 GX Wagon
1988 Subaru Justy J12 SL-II
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  #149  
Old 08-20-2007, 03:40 PM
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Okay, bad news.

I was thinking incorrectly. I attributed the errors to only one of the possible variables without considering all possible variables.

I decided to field-test the ECU link today. I hooked my laptop up to the car, got power for it, started my monitors, and then went for a drive. Not even a mile into the drive, the speedo starts acting funky (the one in Kevin's tool). Then the revs act weird. Then everything zeroes and I get no information. I park in a parking lot, close Kevin's tool, open Serial Com. I send 78123400 and get back...junk. I send 45123400 and get back coherent data. The junk log is attached to this post.

That's when I remembered sitting outside of Fry's getting my serial adapter working. I was doing it from inside the car, so I had the car running as soon as I got in so that the A/C would be on. So the entire time I was removing the packaging and installing drivers for the new serial adapter, the car was running. THAT was the difference between the first and second tests, NOT the cables.

To further prove this point, I shut the car off then turned the ignition switch to "on." 78123400 received coherent data same as the second test, as I attached to a previous post. So the ECU got coherent again as soon as I turned it off then back on again.

I do not understand what is going on, here. The ECU will be fine for a while, then stop transmitting proper data. Upon restart it transmits proper data again. Why does this only affect the laptop link? Why am I not seeing strange engine behavior?

Totally confused... hopefully you or Trevor has a theory, Phil...
Attached Files
File Type: txt ecu rx junk.txt (856 Bytes, 367 views)
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  #150  
Old 08-20-2007, 04:58 PM
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And I've got yet ANOTHER wrench to throw into the works!!!!

I visited my local Subaru dealer, convincing them that I had a select monitor but that it wasn't reporting proper information when the engine was warm. After discussing for a little while about not needing any codes pulled, the lady decided to just get a tech over with a select monitor and check it out for me, free of charge. She was cool too--when she called the tech she asked if they had a select monitor for a 92 SVX (I only told her the year!). The guy apparently then told her that there was no 92 and that it had to be an '02. That was hilarious. The receptionist knew more than the tech. Sweet.

Anyway, he came over and after telling him what I needed, he pulled up the engine information page. The Subaru Select Monitor read entirely correct values. Every single value was precisely correct, and updated rather quickly, too. After thanking the tech I hooked my laptop back up and checked hex codes again. My laptop was still receiving "junk" data.

Try to figure THAT one out, guys.
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