does the FWD time out?

YourConfused · #1 03-03-2008, 05:40 PM

So my nice new trans has a bad solenoid C. I put the FWD fuse in it to diagnose it and it works for a bit. Then the FWD light goes off and the binding is back.

Is it timing out?

I don't really know much about this circuit.
Sometimes it won't even turn on when starting the car so I have to turn off the car and re-start it in hopes of getting FWD to come back on. I checked the contacts and found that there was just light contact on one of the the fuse blades, so i shimmed it w/ a thin piece of aluminum foil. Didn't help any.

Any ideas?

p.s. 4.44 fwd is not very safe, especially in the rain

TomsSVX · #2 03-03-2008, 06:13 PM

thats a very similar issue to what my old Teal car had... Never did figure it out before I sold it. Latest and greatest idea after great amounts of troubleshooting and new parts was to drop the valve body and look for a pinched wire somewhere... Time to break out the multimeter and start testing the circuit from the TCU to the solenoid itself

Tom

Trevor · #3 03-03-2008, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YourConfused

So my nice new trans has a bad solenoid C. I put the FWD fuse in it to diagnose it and it works for a bit. Then the FWD light goes off and the binding is back.

Is it timing out?

I don't really know much about this circuit.
Sometimes it won't even turn on when starting the car so I have to turn off the car and re-start it in hopes of getting FWD to come back on. I checked the contacts and found that there was just light contact on one of the the fuse blades, so i shimmed it w/ a thin piece of aluminum foil. Didn't help any.

Any ideas?

p.s. 4.44 fwd is not very safe, especially in the rain

Inserting the fuse will cause the valve to receive an electrical signal, but there could be a non electrical fault which involves a delay before it registers.

According to the manuals the diagnostic system is quite sophisticated and will register an obstructed, sticking, or mechanically faulty solenoid valve. This can be achieved by sensing the inductance of the solenoid.

If your transmission is nice and new, is it not under warranty?

YourConfused · #4 03-04-2008, 08:02 PM

Looks like I just have a bad case of car suck!

YourConfused · #5 03-05-2008, 09:27 PM

Talked w/ LAN tonight and he doesn't have any info to help out. Anyone have some info or schematics of the circuit? I don't have the money, time or ambition to throw parts at this issue. Well basically the last thing I want to do EVER is just throw parts at a problem, so info would be appreciated.

LAN states that this problem has nothing to do with the trans I bought from him, therefore there is no issue of warranty involved. After talking with him several times I am getting the impression that he is trying to be honest and isn't just avoiding the issue.

I think I am destroying my trans mount when it does bind and am considering just welding the stupid thing solid if it does tear. This binding issue is really annoying, as is the lack of traction of fwd. Can binding of the center clutch destroy something else on the car??? I hope not.

Where is the quick and easy fix when I need one?

TomsSVX · #6 03-05-2008, 10:08 PM

Like I said. You need to trace the signal wire for the Sol. C all the way from the TCU down to the transmission with the FWD fuse in (test when it is not working). You should have a 12v constant signal going to it... You need to find out where it is grounding out... My guess is a pinched wire in the transmission. Best way to check is, disconnect the transmission plug (the bundle going into the driver's side of trans) and test the sol. C signal wire to see if has voltage. Remember, you need to test all of this while the car is on and the FWD fuse is not working (meaning it is installed but the light on the dash is out). If you have anymore questions let me know

Tom

TomsSVX · #7 03-05-2008, 11:06 PM

Just had another thought... Try testing for continuity between the signal wire and the transmission case... If it is grounding out, there should be resistance between the signal wire and the case

Tom

Merz · #8 03-05-2008, 11:34 PM

My transmission does the same thing. The FWD light shuts off occasionally while i am driving and i start to get the binding. I just push it into neutral and turn the key off and on and it usually goes back into FWD. I'd like to get it fixed though. Hopefully you'll find the problem. Keep us posted.

Suby Fan · #9 03-06-2008, 10:12 AM

all data procedure:

CHECK SIGNAL VOLTAGE OUTPUT EMITTED FROM TCU.
Install spare fuse on FWD connector and set in FWD mode.
Turn ignition switch ON (with engine OFF).
Move selector lever to "D".
Measure voltage output emitted from TCU (with accelerator pedal released). Connector & Terminal/Specified value (B68) No.3 - No. 10/8-14V
Turn ignition switch OFF.
Remove spare fuse from FWD switch.
Turn ignition switch ON (with engine OFF).
Move selector lever to "D."
Measure voltage output emitted from TCU (with accelerator pedal fully depressed). Connector & Terminal/Specified value (B68) No. 3 - No. 10/0.5 V, max
CHECK HARNESS BETWEEN TCU AND DUTY SOLENOID C.
Disconnect connector from TCU.
Disconnect connector from transmission.
Measure resistance between TCU connector and transmission connector. Connector & Terminal/Specified value (B68) No. 3 - (B14) No. 11/0 ohms (B68) No. 3 - Body/1 Mohm min. (B68) No. 10 - (B14) No. 4/0 ohms (B68) No. 10 - Body/1 Mohms min.
CHECK DUTY SOLENOID C'S GROUND LINE.
Disconnect connector from transmission.
Measure resistance between transmission connector receptacle and transmission case. Connector & Terminal/Specified value (T2) No. 4 - Transmission /1 ohm max.
CHECK DUTY SOLENOID C.
Disconnect connector from transmission.
Measure resistance between transmission connector receptacle's terminals. Connector & Terminal/Specified value (T2) No. 11 - No.4/9-15 ohm

YourConfused · #10 03-06-2008, 05:35 PM

Thanks for the info John. It's 38 and raining so I won't be putting this info to use tonight.
I'll report back when I have some answers soon.

Mike621 · #11 03-06-2008, 06:13 PM

Sounds like you were sold tranny troubles... best of luck. Please let us know the outcome.

Trevor · #12 03-06-2008, 06:31 PM

N.B. The major problem here is that the fault reported is intermittent.

Solenoid C is a normally closed solenoid and when energised control pressure is bled off, such that the centre clutch is not closed.

The fuse is not directly connected to solenoid C and completes a circuit only to the ECU, which in turn energises the control circuit to the solenoid and illuminates the dash pilot light. The fault could possibly therefore be be within the tcu.

However alternatively, it could be that the TCU is as suggested programmed so that the signal is not held permanently. The fact that the pilot light goes out is of interest. Note the post included here:-

Merz-----My transmission does the same thing. The FWD light shuts off occasionally while i am driving and i start to get the binding. I just push it into neutral and turn the key off and on and it usually goes back into FWD.

However I have not noticed any other member using the fuse to operate in FWD mentioning this as occurring. But, where they doing so on a permanent basis?

As previously pointed out, according to the manuals the diagnostic system is quite sophisticated and will register an obstructed, sticking, or mechanically faulty solenoid valve. This can be achieved by sensing the inductance of the solenoid.

The first a procedure required is to check for a stored code. This will not give a definite answer to the problem, but could provide a clue as to the real issue, which is the cause of the centre clutch not disengaging when under normal control. Granted that the two issues could be caused by the same fault.

Of relevance to date:-

LAN states that this problem has nothing to do with the trans I bought from him, therefore there is no issue of warranty involved. After talking with him several times I am getting the impression that he is trying to be honest and isn't just avoiding the issue.

Tom suggests ------ My guess is a pinched wire in the transmission. Best way to check is, disconnect the transmission plug (the bundle going into the driver's side of trans) and test the sol. C signal wire to s see if has voltage. Remember, you need to test all of this while the car is on and the FWD fuse is not working (meaning it is installed but the light on the dash is out).

This plug provides electrical access to the solenoid. Disconnected from the loom, the resistance between terminals 11 & 4 should be 15 ohms, being the solenoid coil. Terminal 4 should register zero ohms to ground and terminal 11 register 15 ohms to ground.

A plug diagram, i.e. B14 to T2, has been kindly provided within a previous post. N.B. The socket connected to the TCU is illustrated so that you will have to transpose the positions to determine the plug connections.

Applying a pulse of +12 volts between the connection registering 15 ohms and ground, should result in the solenoid moving and a clicking sound being audible at the rear of the transmission. It should be easy to do this this test using a light wire from the battery positive.

Taking into account the comment, “I don't have the money, time or ambition to throw parts at this issue. Well basically the last thing I want to do EVER is just throw parts at a problem, so info would be appreciated.” I would strongly suggest checking for codes, as well as testing as suggested and report back. Once these results are available we should be close to a conclusion.

YourConfused · #13 03-06-2008, 09:09 PM

Well to start off, I did like the line of thinking that YT has posted, but didn't know what wires I was looking for so I didn't get much from those ideas. (but now I know where to look and will find the issue soon)

I wasn't trying to bring all of the trans issues out in the open forum here, as I have been pm and calling LAN about this stuff. (bad shifting, not shifting and other things) Trying not to point the finger at anyone or anything yet. I wanted to disclose all the facts in a review thread for the trans so the public here can know what is fact as per my personal experience with this product. He is working w/ me on this stuff, but I thought I was getting a plug and play item and not a can of worms. (Just a quickie: It shifts super fast and is much better than stock, closest comparison is a Z06 action, so when it works correctly it will be SUPER awesome!)

I got tcu code 24 the first time I started the car with the transmission installed. I was having the ecu code 14-24 issue as per the other thread last month. The result of that was water in a open (now sealed as it should have been from the factory) MAF connector from when I was trying to clean off the motor of the leaking p.s. pump's fluid. (another bad part on this car

) I pm'd LAN that I had an issue but was going to wait until I sorted out the motor issue to deal with it. (IN SHORT: TCU CODE 24. DUTY SOLENOID C)

LAN is sending me a new solenoid and tail housing gasket to fix this.

I likely culprit is that there is some sort of connection between the fwd acting intermittent and a bad solenoid. Like Trevor stated, an intermittent fault is a pita to deal with.

Today in fact I had no issue w/ the fwd not doing it's job. This may be random, or it may be related to the fact that I cleaned the terminals on both plugs going to the trans last night. Who knows?

I now have what appears to be all the info needed to find my problem.
Being that the issue of topic in this thread is not common tends to make me think that there is something rather obvious that is causing all of this.

"I would strongly suggest checking for codes, as well as testing as suggested and report back. Once these results are available we should be close to a conclusion. " If things go as planned we will be at this point tomorrow. I want to go visit some SVX friends in San Antonio this weekend and I had better be driving my SVX as my truck is being held together with hope.

(I hope it doesn't finally die on me)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

N.B. The major problem here is that the fault reported is intermittent.

Solenoid C is a normally closed solenoid and when energised control pressure is bled off, such that the centre clutch is not closed.

The fuse is not directly connected to solenoid C and completes a circuit only to the ECU, which in turn energises the control circuit to the solenoid and illuminates the dash pilot light. The fault could possibly therefore be be within the tcu.

However alternatively, it could be that the TCU is as suggested programmed so that the signal is not held permanently. The fact that the pilot light goes out is of interest. Note the post included here:-

Merz-----My transmission does the same thing. The FWD light shuts off occasionally while i am driving and i start to get the binding. I just push it into neutral and turn the key off and on and it usually goes back into FWD.

However I have not noticed any other member using the fuse to operate in FWD mentioning this as occurring. But, where they doing so on a permanent basis?

As previously pointed out, according to the manuals the diagnostic system is quite sophisticated and will register an obstructed, sticking, or mechanically faulty solenoid valve. This can be achieved by sensing the inductance of the solenoid.

The first a procedure required is to check for a stored code. This will not give a definite answer to the problem, but could provide a clue as to the real issue, which is the cause of the centre clutch not disengaging when under normal control. Granted that the two issues could be caused by the same fault.

Of relevance to date:-

LAN states that this problem has nothing to do with the trans I bought from him, therefore there is no issue of warranty involved. After talking with him several times I am getting the impression that he is trying to be honest and isn't just avoiding the issue.

Tom suggests ------ My guess is a pinched wire in the transmission. Best way to check is, disconnect the transmission plug (the bundle going into the driver's side of trans) and test the sol. C signal wire to s see if has voltage. Remember, you need to test all of this while the car is on and the FWD fuse is not working (meaning it is installed but the light on the dash is out).

This plug provides electrical access to the solenoid. Disconnected from the loom, the resistance between terminals 11 & 4 should be 15 ohms, being the solenoid coil. Terminal 4 should register zero ohms to ground and terminal 11 register 15 ohms to ground.

A plug diagram, i.e. B14 to T2, has been kindly provided within a previous post. N.B. The socket connected to the TCU is illustrated so that you will have to transpose the positions to determine the plug connections.

Applying a pulse of +12 volts between the connection registering 15 ohms and ground, should result in the solenoid moving and a clicking sound being audible at the rear of the transmission. It should be easy to do this this test using a light wire from the battery positive.

Taking into account the comment, “I don't have the money, time or ambition to throw parts at this issue. Well basically the last thing I want to do EVER is just throw parts at a problem, so info would be appreciated.” I would strongly suggest checking for codes, as well as testing as suggested and report back. Once these results are available we should be close to a conclusion.

Trevor · #14 03-06-2008, 10:28 PM

Unfortunately this thread has become so completely confusing, that I am finding it frustrating to the extent that I doubt that it is worthwhile spending further time on the issue. The situation is not necessarily the fault of the thread originator.

It would now appear that a paying guinea pig has become involved in testing an unproved product. If so, my time and expertise is not available to assist the non committal mercenary standing on the side.

YourConfused · #15 03-06-2008, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

Unfortunately this thread has become so completely confusing, that I am finding it frustrating to the extent that I doubt that it is worthwhile spending further time on the issue. The situation is not necessarily the fault of the thread originator.

It would now appear that a paying guinea pig has become involved in testing an unproved product. If so, my time and expertise is not available to assist the non committal mercenary standing on the side.

As always I am happy to have your input on things as it is a wall of logic. Just for the sanity of this forum I am willing to put up with a large amount of crap just so others are able to learn from my misfortune. I would like to be one of those guys that has a great day every day, but I am just left to deal with my life as it is.