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  #16  
Old 03-12-2010, 10:21 PM
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Re: Oxygen Sensors

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiftySVX View Post
As a sidenote I don't recall ever seeing a Subaru that didn't run an NGK plug from the factory.
I think you're correct unless newer ones use something different.
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  #17  
Old 03-13-2010, 05:28 AM
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Re: Oxygen Sensors

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I think you're correct unless newer ones use something different.
03 American assembled using Mexican parts legacies come with the finest plug available to the world. Champions.

They were extremely worn when I replaced them at 20k, 10k under the recommended change.
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  #18  
Old 03-13-2010, 05:57 AM
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Re: Oxygen Sensors

My little red wagon used to destroy champions. I don't put them in anything unless it's used to cut grass or wood. NGK are worth the little extra that they cost.
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  #19  
Old 03-13-2010, 08:49 AM
NiftySVX NiftySVX is offline
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Re: Oxygen Sensors

Champions? Surely not, please no one confirm this is true I would rather assume there has been a mistake lest I spiral downward into a deep depression and question everything I know. Maybe it's a good thing I haven't been working on subarus outside of SVXs and other similar vintage units.

I will tell you, If you pull a subaru/nissan/toyota into my shop with a drivability concern and it doesn't have denso or NGK plugs I will change them before I even test drive it.

As for the oxygen sensors, I don't know off hand how picky the computer is for the tolerance is on SVXs. I know on toyotas, You can put a brand new not OEM sensor in it and the car won't go 100 miles without the computer complaining that the response cycle time is too slow. For that reason I always recomend factory replacements but I defer to the judgement of those with more experience on the matter. I would assume that the older OBD 1 cars wouldn't know the difference between the two as long as the resistance is correct. A more expensive, high quality sensor will make a notable impact on fuel economy however.
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  #20  
Old 03-13-2010, 09:01 AM
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Re: Oxygen Sensors

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Originally Posted by NiftySVX View Post
Champions? Surely not, please no one confirm this is true I would rather assume there has been a mistake lest I spiral downward into a deep depression and question everything I know. Maybe it's a good thing I haven't been working on subarus outside of SVXs and other similar vintage units.
In 1990 when Subaru was building Lecacys in Japan and here in Indiana,
All of the imported Legacys had NGKs, and the USA made Legacys had a mix of Champions, ACs, (and maybe NGKs).
Since we were so used to pumping the gas pedal for cold wheather starts, many, many times the Legacys would not start.
If they had ACs or Champions we had to change out the plugs.
If they were NGKs, the car would start.
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  #21  
Old 03-13-2010, 09:17 AM
NiftySVX NiftySVX is offline
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Re: Oxygen Sensors

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Originally Posted by svxfiles View Post
In 1990 when Subaru was building Lecacys in Japan and here in Indiana,
All of the imported Legacys had NGKs, and the USA made Legacys had a mix of Champions, ACs, (and maybe NGKs).
Since we were so used to pumping the gas pedal for cold wheather starts, many, many times the Legacys would not start.
If they had ACs or Champions we had to change out the plugs.
If they were NGKs, the car would start.
Well I wasn't in the business yet, thank god.

And was it the plugs you were changing, or putting in a working coolant temp sensor in to make it start

I miss my 1994 legacy. I had a white one that was the L+ FWD with the blue interior. Picked it up in the early 2000's for a song and did a T-belt and reseal, purge solenoid (imagine that) and brakes all the way around and it was like brand new. If I could find a 1994 LSi texas/oklahoma/florida car in good shape i would buy it. My mother talked me into selling that one for almost nothing to a family friend for a first car, and at some point it lost a CV boot and he continued to drive it with a siezing CV axle until it broke and left him stranded (at least this is what it sounds like happened) He let the wrecker company keep it in exchange for forgiving the tow bill.

I was LIVID.
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  #22  
Old 03-13-2010, 10:11 AM
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Re: Oxygen Sensors

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Originally Posted by NiftySVX View Post
Champions? Surely not, please no one confirm this is true I would rather assume there has been a mistake lest I spiral downward into a deep depression and question everything I know. Maybe it's a good thing I haven't been working on subarus outside of SVXs and other similar vintage units.
.
What more do you need. Car was bought with 8 miles on it. Only time it was at the dealer was for the 20 or so warranty issues. When I changed them they said Champion on the side.

Now of course someone might have come along and stolen the NGKs while we slept.

Doesn't matter to me, Subaru has been on that downward spiral for about 15 years now quality wise. Hence why I bought a Jag instead of a Subaru.
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  #23  
Old 03-13-2010, 02:55 PM
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Re: Oxygen Sensors

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiftySVX View Post
Well I wasn't in the business yet, thank god.

And was it the plugs you were changing, or putting in a working coolant temp sensor in to make it start

I miss my 1994 legacy. I had a white one that was the L+ FWD with the blue interior. Picked it up in the early 2000's for a song and did a T-belt and reseal, purge solenoid (imagine that) and brakes all the way around and it was like brand new. If I could find a 1994 LSi texas/oklahoma/florida car in good shape i would buy it. My mother talked me into selling that one for almost nothing to a family friend for a first car, and at some point it lost a CV boot and he continued to drive it with a siezing CV axle until it broke and left him stranded (at least this is what it sounds like happened) He let the wrecker company keep it in exchange for forgiving the tow bill.

I was LIVID.
I believe what he is saying here is that being used to carbed engines which you need to pump the gas pedal one or 2 times to set the choke, plus in the carbed engine adding that little extra gas helped it fire. But the new fuel injected cars would flood the engine, the NGK's would still fire but the rest were toast.
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  #24  
Old 03-13-2010, 03:59 PM
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Re: Oxygen Sensors

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Originally Posted by 92 SVX View Post
I believe what he is saying here is that being used to carbed engines which you need to pump the gas pedal one or 2 times to set the choke, plus in the carbed engine adding that little extra gas helped it fire. But the new fuel injected cars would flood the engine, the NGK's would still fire but the rest were toast.
Yep!
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  #25  
Old 03-18-2010, 07:59 AM
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Re: Oxygen Sensors

Got my sensors. Trying to get the old ones out, but having problems. Need help. I've had my car on ramps since last night. I've been spraying them every few hours with BP lube(original nut/bolt buster). I went out this morning and sprayed them again. Tried to break them loose this morning, but with no luck. Wondering if anyone has any helpful ideas? Should I run my car for a while and get some heat to them before trying to break them loose? I'm just using an open end wrech to do it. One of my friends said he has an O2 sensor socket. Do you think that will help? I haven't tried to use a breaker bar or anything yet. Should I? Don't want to break anything though.
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  #26  
Old 03-18-2010, 08:18 AM
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Re: Oxygen Sensors

.

The O2 sensor socket or a long box-end wrench should be used as it provides a complete gripping surface. The advantage of the O2 sensor socket is that it has a slot to permit the wire to go through. Since you are disconnecting the sensor plug anyway, just thread the connector through the box-end wrench.

You can't get enough grip area with an open-end wrench.


In stubborn cases, sometimes heating the area helps. Many times frozen bolts have been removed by heating the area with a torch. Try using the box end wrench on a cold engine first.

When installing new O2 sensors, put a bit of anti-sieze compound on the threads to make removal easier in the future. Be careful not to get it on the actual sensor element.

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  #27  
Old 03-18-2010, 10:51 AM
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Re: Oxygen Sensors

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpadedOne View Post
Got my sensors. Trying to get the old ones out, but having problems. Need help. I've had my car on ramps since last night. I've been spraying them every few hours with BP lube(original nut/bolt buster). I went out this morning and sprayed them again. Tried to break them loose this morning, but with no luck. Wondering if anyone has any helpful ideas? Should I run my car for a while and get some heat to them before trying to break them loose? I'm just using an open end wrech to do it. One of my friends said he has an O2 sensor socket. Do you think that will help? I haven't tried to use a breaker bar or anything yet. Should I? Don't want to break anything though.
Using a very long standard blade screwdriver unhook the electrical connection.
Then use a six sided 7/8" box end wrench to remove the cold O2 sensor.
The O2 socket will not work as well as the 7/8" box.
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  #28  
Old 03-18-2010, 11:31 AM
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Re: Oxygen Sensors

I used vise grips on one of mine when I needed to remove one that was excessively stubborn. I later reinstalled the same O2 sensors and they still work fine.
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  #29  
Old 03-18-2010, 12:55 PM
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Re: Oxygen Sensors

Ive learned slowly thru years of trial and lots of error....... the best way to free up rusty bolts is to use penetrating oil as early and soaked as long a possible.... THEN, when you go to break it loose..... the overwhelmingly better way is impact..... not slow torque. If it wont break loose with the box wrench with hand power, hit the wrench with a hammer in the appropriate direction a few times. You can also use the backside of a locked-in vise-grip. Trust me rust breaks much easier with impact type torque, I wouldnt take a breaker bar to anything on the exhaust. Steel that has heated and cooled thousands of times gets pretty brittle, and rust/ozidization that seizes O2 sensors in place just breaks easier and with less total force using impact.
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