Car not starting when hot, totally dead

I am having a problem with starting my SVX. My car doesnt start after I have driven it until it got hot and turned it off. Also, this happens when the weather is very hot, but not all of the time. I have to turn the key about 3 to 7 times. and when I do, it is totally dead. there is no clicking sound, no sound whatsoever. Then after a while, bam, it turns on. It even happens with my remote starter, but not all of the time. I have a four year old battery, but it reads fully charged. Is there any one who has had a similar problem with their car? Can anyone shed some light on this problem?

Guitarman. the problem you describe sounds a lot like the problem I had with the wife's legacy. The on and off till the starter finally took. If you have the time get your battery load tested, "most places that sell batteries do it for free"and after you do that you have piece of mind your bat is good. However in my case the starter was old and crusty and needed replaced. I know it was a legacy, but there very similar to a SVX and it cost about 120 bucks at a Napa store probably less somewhere else.

I don't know how long mySVX has had it's starter but if it's original and starts acting like yours it's probably getting there.
If you replace your"s and problem goes away congrats. Good luck

92 Pearlie 146k New Christmas tree air freshener yea!

[svxpert]

the problem is most likely "heat soak" early model legacys and svx starters are know for this. i have a brand new legacy starter in my 5 speed SVX and it did it too. there is no official "fix" for this problem but there is a "unofficial" fix that is know to work. if your good at electronics and wiring things, pm me and i can explain more.

Originally posted by svxpert
the problem is most likely "heat soak" early model legacys and svx starters are know for this. i have a brand new legacy starter in my 5 speed SVX and it did it too. there is no official "fix" for this problem but there is a "unofficial" fix that is know to work. if your good at electronics and wiring things, pm me and i can explain more.

I am not sure what you mean by "heat soak". Could you please explain. Would a new battery be helpful? the one I have is 4 years old but it reads okay, I had it checked, have a meter. As far as wiring, would like to hear more. Anything you can offer me with ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[lee]

Originally posted by guitarman400


I am not sure what you mean by "heat soak". Could you please explain. Would a new battery be helpful? the one I have is 4 years old but it reads okay, I had it checked, have a meter. As far as wiring, would like to hear more. Anything you can offer me with ideas would be greatly appreciated.

I'll give it a try...Heat Soak is a hot-rodder's term for what happens as devices with electrical windings get hot. OK, so what you say? Heat has the property of increasing electrical resistance. Going from say 75 to 200 degrees F increases coppers resistance by about 1.5 times. Considering how many feet of wiring there is in the solenoid and starter motor, this does have an effect.

Couple that with

1) a good but marginal battery (in terms of cranking amps), and
2) bad electrical connectors (corroded or annealed), and this increased resistance, and
3) heat soak has struck.

So what can you do?

1) Make sure that your ignition wires and +/- wires from the battery are sized correctly for the job (or said another way, a PO didn't downsize the wires). That both positive and ground battery posts are clean (as well as their termination point), and all terminals/wires are properly crimped and sealed (to avoid corrosion issues). Also, routing wires away from heat sources is a good idea when possible.

2) Many people think having a fresh battery is a cold weather survival thing when hot summer weather is actually tougher on the battery's life (take it from me as a FLA resident).

3) Engine compartment ventilation can lower under hood temperatures by 50 degrees F (I have no idea how to do this simply for the SVX, but after sticking my head under the hood once when the engine was hot leads me to believe it should be investigated).

4) Electric cooling fans that run after the engine shuts off help avoid heat soak through reducing hot, stagnant air around the engine (too bad the SVX doesn't do this, there is undoubtedly a way to implement tho).

5) Header wraps are a common product that helps reduce heat radiated to other components (but I'm not sure how well they work on cast iron).

6) The starter and solenoid must be in good condition internally (in terms of electrical resistance, brushes, etc). If the starter bushings are worn, the armatures will move or wriggle enough to drag on the magnets (heat aggravated) and the starter will require more torque and power to operate.

7) Isolating the solenoid/starter mounting block from the engine block can be helped a little by using a thin heat insulator/gasket placed between the two (but I've not seen such a product).

[blue thunder]

I'm also having problems starting my svx. Sometimes on the first try and sometimes many tries. But it always starts eventually. I just had my alternator re-built, got another starter from the lifetime warranty at advanced auto and had the battery recharged. The battery tests at 13 amps with engine off and 14 with engine idling. I just bought some bolts today to try and fix the ignition problem mentioned on another thread. I can't say the problem is heat related. It seems to happen at random like a connection or wiring problem. I don't have any other ideas. Good luck to all.



-Mike

[oab_au]

The power needed to operate the starter solenoid is about 30 amps. This current has to flow through a number of series switches, before it gets to the solenoid. A small resistance at any of these will drop the current too low to pull the starter solenoid in.

The best fix for this is to insert a relay into the starter solenoid wiring at the starter. This relay will operate off the current that makes its way through the series switches. It then switches full battery voltage to the starter solenoid.

The small wire that plugs on to the starter solenoid, comes off and goes to the relay, the other side of the relay is earthed. A battery supply is connected to one side of the relay contacts, the other side of the contacts is connected to the starter solenoid, where the small wire was connected.

Problem fixed, for ever.

Harvey.

[lee]

Originally posted by oab_au
The power needed to operate the starter solenoid is about 30 amps. This current has to flow through a number of series switches, before it gets to the solenoid. A small resistance at any of these will drop the current too low to pull the starter solenoid in.

The best fix for this is to insert a relay into the starter solenoid wiring at the starter. This relay will operate off the current that makes its way through the series switches. It then switches full battery voltage to the starter solenoid.

The small wire that plugs on to the starter solenoid, comes off and goes to the relay, the other side of the relay is earthed. A battery supply is connected to one side of the relay contacts, the other side of the contacts is connected to the starter solenoid, where the small wire was connected.

Problem fixed, for ever.

Harvey.

Harvey, this makes it all too easy...your way takes about 20 minutes, mine takes a couple of days...

In the US, older Fords (like a 65 Mustang I once owned) had such a relay, usually on the inner fender well. Not sure if they were used in your neck of the woods. Would you reckon this would be a good candidate for the relay? Asked because I would worry about the amp rating otherwise.

[oab_au]

Originally posted by lee


Harvey, this makes it all too easy...your way takes about 20 minutes, mine takes a couple of days...

In the US, older Fords (like a 65 Mustang I once owned) had such a relay, usually on the inner fender well. Not sure if they were used in your neck of the woods. Would you reckon this would be a good candidate for the relay? Asked because I would worry about the amp rating otherwise.

Hi mate, yeah a Bosch relay would do the job, operates on 100 millamps and will switch 30 amps. Yes the same set up that the Fords and many US cars had. Just fuse the battery supply.

Harvey.

Originally posted by oab_au
The power needed to operate the starter solenoid is about 30 amps. This current has to flow through a number of series switches, before it gets to the solenoid. A small resistance at any of these will drop the current too low to pull the starter solenoid in.

The best fix for this is to insert a relay into the starter solenoid wiring at the starter. This relay will operate off the current that makes its way through the series switches. It then switches full battery voltage to the starter solenoid.

The small wire that plugs on to the starter solenoid, comes off and goes to the relay, the other side of the relay is earthed. A battery supply is connected to one side of the relay contacts, the other side of the contacts is connected to the starter solenoid, where the small wire was connected.

Problem fixed, for ever.

Harvey.

Thanks for the reply, Harvey. Just want to make sure that I get this right. Take the wires, one to positive of the solenoid, then what do I do with the other? Can you be more specific? Want to make that I understand exactly what should be done, step by step. Is this a hookup with 2 or 4 wires? Am I adding or using existing relays? there Another question, do you think putting a new battery would make a big difference? the one I have reads as being good, even though it is 4 years old. any cutting or soddering involved? Where can I get these relays. Is there a particular name for it? When I call the parts place, what exactly am I to ask for? Should I look into the possibility that it might be the battery, before attempting any other fix?

Guitarman 400,


The big red cable (+) off the battery goes directly to the starter. It also branches off thru a fuse link to the alternator and to the key switch. Thats one side of the circut. The other side of the circut "the solenoid pull in side", runs from the key switch to one starter interupt relay, which also goes to the security module, and also has to pass thru one inhibit switch on its way to the solenoid. The inhibit switch makes sure the trannys in park.

Inhibit switches are not too hard to test, they work or they don't "like a brake light switch", the starter interupt relay branches off to the security module so it seems that there could be some possible trouble with this circut.


So you have one relay, and one switch. From the key switch it
shows one blk/yellow to relay and one blk "black" leaving relay and going to security module. To clarify after the voltage leaves the key switch you have one relay, and one inhibit switch. Also from the relay look for a blk/white wire from relay going in to inhibit switch and from inhibit switch to starter solenoid it shows a blk/yellow wire, after it goes thru inhib switch. The wiring diagram came out of a Chilton's 64302 manual covering Subaru 85-96. If you can locate interupt relay or inhibit switch you'll have something to go on. Check for voltage before and after relay/switch the security module sounds like another loose end. Hope this was some help, now i'm confused...and by the way my starter gave out in November so the heat soak thing did'nt apply to mine.

92 Pearlie 146k "cheapo radiator patch still holding!" yea

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally posted by guitarman400
I am having a problem with starting my SVX... I have a four year old battery...

That says it all right there. You need a new battery. The above suggestions may help your car eventually, but batteries just don't last that long in the SVX. The charging system is a little inadequate, so the SVX relies on the battery more often than other cars. That constant charging and discharging takes its toll.

[oab_au]

Originally posted by guitarman400


Thanks for the reply, Harvey. Just want to make sure that I get this right. Take the wires, one to positive of the solenoid, then what do I do with the other? Can you be more specific? Want to make that I understand exactly what should be done, step by step. Is this a hookup with 2 or 4 wires? Am I adding or using existing relays? there Another question, do you think putting a new battery would make a big difference? the one I have reads as being good, even though it is 4 years old. any cutting or soddering involved? Where can I get these relays. Is there a particular name for it? When I call the parts place, what exactly am I to ask for? Should I look into the possibility that it might be the battery, before attempting any other fix?

I would like to post a picture here that would show the set up, but I am not that talented.

The relay to use is a standard Bosch 12volt, 30amp unit. Used for horn, driving lights, etc. There is a diagram on the side of the relay cover that shows the connections. If it is mounted near the starter, there is little wiring to do.

The starter has two wires to it, a big battery cable and a small black/yellow wire plugged on to the solenoid. The small b/y wire is removed and connected to terminal 86 on the relay, terminal 85 is connected to earth. A wire (big enough to flow 30 amps) is then run from the large battery terminal on the starter, to terminal 30 on the relay. Another wire is run from terminal 87 on the relay to the spade terminal on the starter solenoid, from where the small b/y wire was removed.

To tell if it is the battery or the starter circuit, Turn the ign on, see if the dash lights up, turn the key to the start position. If the dash lights go out, it is the battery or battery terminals. If the dash lights stay on, but the starter does not work, then it is the starter circuit, that this relay should fix.

Harvey.

[NikFu S.]

Originally posted by Mr. Pockets


That says it all right there. You need a new battery. The above suggestions may help your car eventually, but batteries just don't last that long in the SVX. The charging system is a little inadequate, so the SVX relies on the battery more often than other cars. That constant charging and discharging takes its toll.

I agree. Noone should keep an acid battery more than three years running.