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#46
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Jesse you are more than welcome for all of the work you did for me. Also, I have a request if you have an extra I will send you a PM.
Tom |
#47
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Long post but there is a reason...
Is the mount for the manual trans the same as the automatic (roughly)? I took a good look at how the mounts flex under acceleration while I had someone working the throttle, on a drive-on rack. Being primarily designed as a FWD vehicle the engine mounts lift equally on both sides, the torque strut acts as a pivot and the trans mount is collapsed as torque increases. Given the short range of motion at the engine mounts and that they have built-in limit tabs I think the trans mount is what could stand some beefing up.
As you look at the trans mount, at least on the autobox, the supporting pillows at the sides are fairly soft and allow quite a bit of motion. There are two small pillows near the center that seem to act as travel limiters and a center bolt with a rubber donut below the x-member that limits the tranny from lifting to high and tearing the side pillows apart when in reverse. On my car, and I recall others also mentioning this, there began to be times when buzziness could be felt in the steering wheel and the gas pedal. I found that the engine had shifted on its mounts and required re-centering. Loosening the three x-member nuts on the trans mount and loosening the trans end of the torque strut (slotted hole) allowed me to use a pry bar and re-center the center stud of the trans mount in its hole. It actually moved about 1/2-3/4 inch. I then loosened the exhaust at the manifolds and found they had been shifted also as a result. I 'persuaded' the hanger bracket at the rear of the trans in order for the pipes to meet the manifolds without having to tighten their nuts. After I tightened the exhaust back up I lowered the car to the ground, started it up and drove it back and forth about ten feet, using just enough gas to get it moving in each direction. Before coming to a stop while moving forward I slipped it into neutral before touching the brake pedal. This allowed the engine and trans to find center and I could then tighten the torque strut without it being loaded in either direction. Since doing this (and it's a lot easier to do than type it out) the buzziness in the pedals and steering is gone. I then noticed when coming to a stop there seemed to be a little vibration remaining. I found that if I kept my foot on the brake and shifted to neutral I could feel something relaxing. When I returned it to drive, with my foot still on the brake, the vibration was gone. Apparently what is happening is that trans mount is still compressed and sitting on the limiter pillows. Sometime next week I'll drop the trans x-member and slip a shock absorber rubber mounting washer onto the center stud to keep the mount from deflecting so far. I'll update here as I find out how that works out. This could be the primary cause of the driveling slop many complain about as nothing else seemed to move anywhere near as much as the trans mount.
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ASE Certified Master Automotive Technician w/L1. ASE Certified Master Medium/Heavy Truck Technician. Certified EVT (Emergency Vehicle Technician) |
#48
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p.s.
For those that have excessive motion at the engine mounts why not just weld a washer or two on the bottom side of the limiting tab pockets? That would keep them from lifting too high and destroying the mounts without compromising the isolation quality during normal driving.
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ASE Certified Master Automotive Technician w/L1. ASE Certified Master Medium/Heavy Truck Technician. Certified EVT (Emergency Vehicle Technician) |
#49
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Pictures
Just for the "visual" folks out there....here's the stock trans mount
-Bill
__________________
Retired NASA Rocket Scientist Most famous NASA "Child" - OSIRIS-REx delivered samples from asteroid BENNU to Earth in Sept. 2023 Center Network Member #989 '92 Fully caged, 5 speed, waiting for its fully built EG33 '92 "Test Mule", 4:44 Auto, JDM 4:44 Rear Diff with Mech LSD, Tuned headers, Full one-off suspension '92(?) Laguna, 6 spd and other stuff (still at OT's place) My Locker |
#50
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and here's a solution (?)
-Bill
__________________
Retired NASA Rocket Scientist Most famous NASA "Child" - OSIRIS-REx delivered samples from asteroid BENNU to Earth in Sept. 2023 Center Network Member #989 '92 Fully caged, 5 speed, waiting for its fully built EG33 '92 "Test Mule", 4:44 Auto, JDM 4:44 Rear Diff with Mech LSD, Tuned headers, Full one-off suspension '92(?) Laguna, 6 spd and other stuff (still at OT's place) My Locker |
#51
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With the group N trans mount on the 5mt there is still a good deal of slop in the driveline. Once the group N motor mounts are installed it should take a good bit out of it. I will also be re-installing the rear subframe bushings that i tried before to see if they help also. I feel that most of the slop we feel is in the movement of the motor mounts. They are soft hydroulic mounts that seem to allow for a lot of cusion. This may be an active part in the car's luxury apeal to all of you but I can sacrifice that. I am looking to have a pretty solid driveline when i am done. The motor mounts, trans mount, and subframe bushings should keep my carp nice and firm. I will let everyone know how they feel as I install them one by one. I do agree with Beav that the trans mount allows for a great deal of movement but I know or a fact that you will lose a good deal of luxury when converting to a harder mount, just be ready for that...
Tom |
#52
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Quote:
Tom, Yep, you're definitely right there... -Bill
__________________
Retired NASA Rocket Scientist Most famous NASA "Child" - OSIRIS-REx delivered samples from asteroid BENNU to Earth in Sept. 2023 Center Network Member #989 '92 Fully caged, 5 speed, waiting for its fully built EG33 '92 "Test Mule", 4:44 Auto, JDM 4:44 Rear Diff with Mech LSD, Tuned headers, Full one-off suspension '92(?) Laguna, 6 spd and other stuff (still at OT's place) My Locker |
#53
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Quote:
I was very surprised at how little vibration the Group N motor and tranny mounts transmit to the car. There is barely any more vibration than with the OEM SVX mounts.
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Mychailo :: 2006 Silver Mitsubishi Evolution 9, E85, 34 psi peak, 425wtq/505whp DJ :: 1995 Laguna Blue SVX L AWD 5MT (sold) Visit my locker SVX Mods: ND iridium spark plugs, Impreza RS fpr, afr tuned to 13.2:1 using a custom MAF bypass, custom exhaust, WRX 5MT w/ STi RA 1st-4th gear & stock WRX 5th gear, Exedy 13 lb flywheel & Sport Clutch, STi Group N tranny & engine mounts, urethane spacers in rear subframe, rear diff mounts, and pitch stopper, SVX Sport Strut Springs (185f/150r), custom 19 mm rear swaybar, urethane swaybar mounts, Rota Torque 17x8", 225/45-17 Proxes 4 tires, Axxis Deluxe Plus organic brake pads. |
#54
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I agree Mychailo, there is still a good deal of slop. I want to adress all of these areas where it may be coming from. Like I said, once I have these things done I will check back.
Come to think of it, A good deal of this slop may be affiliated with the 2 peice driveshaft. A good one peice would probobly take care of a lot of that....hmmm maybe a new thing to spend money on?? Tom |
#55
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Really need to get my mounts in. I noticed this weekend when fallowing my wife that my exaust is acctually twisted in the back from the motor being higher on one side, and when looking at it closer I realized that the left tip is actually hitting the bumper it's so high Hopefully tomorrow.
__________________
92 SVX #772 140k 6speed, ECU Tune stage II, Koni/Ground control, 3,270lbs. 91 Legacy Turbo 5spd. FMIC, crappy stock turbo, ACT clutch. 78 BRAT (New toy) (Soon to be EJ22T powered) 90 240 SX. RB25 powered!! DRIFT!!!111!!! (GF's car) To many cars to spend time on teh web! |
#56
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Quote:
does this mean you're going to take a shot at fab'ing the adapters for the Group N mounts (hope so!)? -Bill (stepping to the front of the "Jesse's custom Group N motor mounts" line )
__________________
Retired NASA Rocket Scientist Most famous NASA "Child" - OSIRIS-REx delivered samples from asteroid BENNU to Earth in Sept. 2023 Center Network Member #989 '92 Fully caged, 5 speed, waiting for its fully built EG33 '92 "Test Mule", 4:44 Auto, JDM 4:44 Rear Diff with Mech LSD, Tuned headers, Full one-off suspension '92(?) Laguna, 6 spd and other stuff (still at OT's place) My Locker |
#57
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Quote:
Well from what I've been reading your just need a 1/4 peice of metal between the top of the mount an the mounting plate, but from looking at them so far comparing a broken mount and stuff, it would seem like useing the SVX mounting plate is the way to go becouse it bolts to the motor with three bolts instead of only two, plus the mounting plate that comes with the mounts would put the mount in the wrong spot. So with that being said the group N-mount does not fit in the stock mounting plate at all, the bolt spread is different and it seems like it needs more that a quarter inch to clear the edges of the mounting plate, so I may need to grind down the sides of the mounting plate along with elongating the bolt holes. But it's hard to tell for sure with out having a good stock mount at the moment to compare mounting hight and location. I'm sure I could whip out a hundred 1/4" aluminum spacers with two holes in them but you would still need to take out the mounting plate and do some grinding..........thats the way it looks right now anyway.
__________________
92 SVX #772 140k 6speed, ECU Tune stage II, Koni/Ground control, 3,270lbs. 91 Legacy Turbo 5spd. FMIC, crappy stock turbo, ACT clutch. 78 BRAT (New toy) (Soon to be EJ22T powered) 90 240 SX. RB25 powered!! DRIFT!!!111!!! (GF's car) To many cars to spend time on teh web! |
#58
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here are some pics from mychailo's locker
I hope these help. Mind whipping up an extra set of brackets for me?? there should be an extra set in the mess of parts Tom |
#59
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Yes thanks for those pics Tom, don't know why I couldn't find them. Anyway it does look pretty simple , so hopefully I can toss them in tomorrow night, and I should be able to whip you up a set of spacers Tom.
__________________
92 SVX #772 140k 6speed, ECU Tune stage II, Koni/Ground control, 3,270lbs. 91 Legacy Turbo 5spd. FMIC, crappy stock turbo, ACT clutch. 78 BRAT (New toy) (Soon to be EJ22T powered) 90 240 SX. RB25 powered!! DRIFT!!!111!!! (GF's car) To many cars to spend time on teh web! |
#60
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Jesse, I have an extra OEM motor mount if you want one to use for comparison. Besides clearing the mounting plate, I'm wondering if the spacer is necessary to put the engine at the correct height. I think Dave Clark said that when he made mine, he used the 1/4" thick plate for that reason. You might want to double-check that though.
__________________
Mychailo :: 2006 Silver Mitsubishi Evolution 9, E85, 34 psi peak, 425wtq/505whp DJ :: 1995 Laguna Blue SVX L AWD 5MT (sold) Visit my locker SVX Mods: ND iridium spark plugs, Impreza RS fpr, afr tuned to 13.2:1 using a custom MAF bypass, custom exhaust, WRX 5MT w/ STi RA 1st-4th gear & stock WRX 5th gear, Exedy 13 lb flywheel & Sport Clutch, STi Group N tranny & engine mounts, urethane spacers in rear subframe, rear diff mounts, and pitch stopper, SVX Sport Strut Springs (185f/150r), custom 19 mm rear swaybar, urethane swaybar mounts, Rota Torque 17x8", 225/45-17 Proxes 4 tires, Axxis Deluxe Plus organic brake pads. |
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