ECUtune Stage 2v6 ethanol, e85, flex fuel, turbo, supercharger, force induction

[Phast SVX]

Originally Posted by immortal_suby

Phil, I have my spare engine in the garage complete with injectors and rails. No intake (sent it to LAN) but most of the other stuff is on there if you need it. I also have a spare throttle body. It'll cost you some beer at the next meet but that's about it.

Don't mind Benebob you guys, he's just bitter about the nitrous kit I won't lend him.

Thanks alot Matt, hopefully none will be needed Look for my update early next week.

[Phast SVX]

Originally Posted by svxistentialist

Hey Phil

Best of luck with it. I trust and hope you will do no damage, if careful.

Elsewhere in this thread I have said I reckon our stuff will probably handle the fuel OK, and I still think that way.

Just the same, when you are starting to use the fuel, start off with a lower percentage, say a half tank of it or a third of a tank. Let the ECU learn and adjust gradually, the way it likes to. That's the way the guy on NASIOC dialled in the WRX, and it's going OK after a year or two.

Best of luck.

Joe

Thanks Joe. I have an actual map for e85, so no real learn in or trimming is required as was with the WRX guy who pioneered his system. We should be in RBT territory with any hope, and if not i will have to drop boost back down and go from there. Either way i should be making good good power.
phil

[Phast SVX]

Originally Posted by shotgunslade

Just ordered my Stage 2, Version 6 chip. Will run it on whatever gas I can find. With luck, I will have it in before I go to Watkins Glen on Sept 18.

I will do my best to make sure my testing gets done this week.
phil

[shotgunslade]

As I mentioned in a previous post, ethanol from agricultural sources which compete with foodstuffs won't get the job done. If you do the numbers, you will find meeting our gasoline consumption with ethanol produced by corn or sugar beets would use up the entire production of these crops. Such is the magnitude of our gasoline thirst.

The bright spot on the horizon is cellulosic ethanol, which requires a 2 step process. The first is to convert cellulose into sugar or starch, which is exactly the process that goes in the gut of a cow to allow it to live off grass. The resulting sugar or starch can then go through a conventinoal fermentation process to convert it to ethanol. The important thing about cellulose as a raw material is that we have so much cellulose waste. All agricultural waste, corn shucks and stalks, wheat chaff, dead leaves, sawdust, etc, all are mostly cellulose.

Converting this stuff into ethanol and then burning the ethanol as fuel will not add to the carbon dioxide content of the air, because this stuff will oxidize anyway as it rots. There will be an initial burden because, undoubtedly, converting this stuff to ethanol will reduce the mass of it sitting around and rotting, but once you are up to steady state production, there would be no net gain of CO2 to the atmosphere.

[Earthworm]

So are you going to drain the old gas or run the tank empty before switching to E85?

Would it be possible to get the ECU to automatically adjust for different ethanol levels? eg. 1/4 normal gasolene + 3/4 E85

[longassname]

The span between rbt and lbt with ethanol/e85 is much larger than it is with gasoline. You can run way way way rich without loosing power. This means if there are a couple or few galons of gas left in the tank thanks to our fuel guage and tank design which likes to leave us with a few gallons in the tank it will still run just fine.

A small amount of ethanol works as a great additive to gasoline for increasing the octane level. When you are switching back to gasoline you will want to get the tank as empty as possible before you fill with gasoline but you still shouldn't have to drain the tank. Fill up with E85, start the car while still on the ethanol code, a few seconds later when the fuel lines are running gas and the car starts going rich rich rich throw the switch to go to the gasoline code. With a couple gallons of E85 mixed in the tank with gasoline your lambda will be slightly leaner than if it was straight gasoline but with the increased octane it should still run just fine.

You should have no problems going back and forth between E85 and straight gasoline. Just run the tank pretty close to empty before you switch.

Originally Posted by Earthworm

So are you going to drain the old gas or run the tank empty before switching to E85?

Would it be possible to get the ECU to automatically adjust for different ethanol levels? eg. 1/4 normal gasolene + 3/4 E85

[Earthworm]

Can it be switched on the fly or do you have to shut everything off first?

[longassname]

It's the same switching mechanism as always and can be switched on the fly. When going from E85 to gasoline you will want to switch on the fly. When going from gasoline to E85 you'll want to switch before you start or imediately after on the fly.

[benebob]

Originally Posted by immortal_suby

Don't mind Benebob you guys, he's just bitter about the nitrous kit I won't lend him.

Bitter, no, I could care less as I rank drag racing right up there beside the WWE as sports go and besides, we only have you to blame if we can't break into the top ten. I'm simply waiting for an explination as what they are talking about defies science. No one here seems to be capable of showing that e-85 is capable of higher power then regular gas is. Then again, that was to be expected since everything I've read on it since someone first brought up the idea contradicts what L............... is saying.

[TomsSVX]

So Ben, you are honestly suggesting that if I run E85 in my car with the diff crank pulley say making about 17lbs of boost that my performance will get worse than I am on Jersey 90/10 fuel at 12lbs??? Are you ****ing serious?? Yes I will burn more fuel but at the same time I will not be burning as much money. Jusitify that as a loss and a waste of time

Tom

[Phast SVX]

Originally Posted by benebob

Bitter, no, I could care less as I rank drag racing right up there beside the WWE as sports go and besides, we only have you to blame if we can't break into the top ten. I'm simply waiting for an explination as what they are talking about defies science. No one here seems to be capable of showing that e-85 is capable of higher power then regular gas is. Then again, that was to be expected since everything I've read on it since someone first brought up the idea contradicts what L............... is saying.

IT dosnt defy science, it simply defies what you believe in your head about combustion a cycle. It has less BTU per volume. This is what tripps you up. RBT for ethanol(and yes e85 at the pump) It runs at 8:1 and 9:1. . Theirin is a huge power benefit. Cooler combustion and lower temps mean a lot more boost can be run before detonation is run into. And i do mean much more boost. Some people are having problems getting the engine to warm up enough with the stock thermostat in race cars, idling them all the way while waiting in line to keep the engine up to temp while everyone is shutting them off with hoods open. Thats a good problem.
Please refrain from commenting until i post on my results.

[benebob]

Originally Posted by TomsSVX

So Ben, you are honestly suggesting that if I run E85 in my car with the diff crank pulley say making about 17lbs of boost that my performance will get worse than I am on Jersey 90/10 fuel at 12lbs??? Are you ****ing serious?? Yes I will burn more fuel but at the same time I will not be burning as much money. Jusitify that as a loss and a waste of time

Tom

If you read my posts Tom you saw that I asked for an explination as the racing communty as a whole has shyed away for the reasons I brought up. Oh and some that I didn't such as heavier weight to go the same distance as you need more fuel, less life expectancy for the engine and components as the engine corrodes into dust.

As for your comparison you just changed the senario though. Making 12 lbs of boost you won't have any gain from running e-85 than you would making 12lbs of boost with gas. You need to compare apples to apples young t not apples to steaks. Better fuel, not in the least, better tailpipe emissions sure. Remember the racers that have gone to e-85 have done so for some very good reasons: ALL cars in the series need to as it is sanctioned and marketing.

[Earthworm]

Seems like E85 will only benefit forced induction vehicles by allowing higher boost levels.

[Phast SVX]

Originally Posted by Earthworm

Seems like E85 will only benefit forced induction vehicles by allowing higher boost levels.

It allows for tons more ignition advance on a NA motor. 3.3L with 10:1 compression running 6 or 7 degrees more of advance will give you big power.
phil

[Phast SVX]

Originally Posted by benebob

Making 12 lbs of boost you won't have any gain from running e-85 than you would making 12lbs of boost with gas.

You are incorrect. Do cooler combustion temperatures mean more power on the same level of boost? Yes. You will make more power running alchohol then you will on gas, all else the same.