Whats up with Bush?!!??

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Landshark

while there were no actual WMD's found, large amounts of equipment used to make and deliver them were, according to people i know in the military who were in Iraq. would you feel safer knowing a renegade regime who hates the U.S. and consorts with, and supports known terrorist organizations was pretty close to developing WMD's? sure, lets just try to talk reasonably with them!

oil and liberation of the oppressed Iraqis is nice and all, but make no mistake about the reason we really went there in the first place.

So when are we going to hit N. Korea?

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Noir

So when are we going to hit N. Korea?

soon. Agent Jackass, your mission is to infiltrate Kim Jong Il's residence and dispatch him by way of mule-kick. try not to get distracted by Hong Kong hookers and consumer electronics en route to your mission objective.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Landshark

soon. Agent Jackass, your mission is to infiltrate Kim Jong Il's residence and dispatch him by way of mule-kick. try not to get distracted by Hong Kong hookers and consumer electronics en route to your mission objective.

Aye, aye capt'n. Can I carry my SpyderCo 4 inch half-serrated blade to scalp Kim Jong da Deuce? I miss the good ole days.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Noir

Aye, aye capt'n. Can I carry my SpyderCo 4 inch half-serrated blade to scalp Kim Jong da Deuce? I miss the good ole days.

hell yeah! he has cool hair! i'd like to get it mounted above my fireplace.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by PA_SVX

#6 I am in favor of everybody in America having a bar code on the arm so you could zap it with a supermarket gun and have the person's name, date of birth, address, social security number, criminal record, etc... No more John Does, no more @$$hole criminals playing games and you know what? I'd get one on my arm in a minute.

Get with technology PA_SVX. Barcoding's a thing of the past. Tracking collars, bracelets, and ankle cuffs would work much better. Think of all the nice Hello Kitty stickers and ornaments one could attach to those things.

Paris Hilton could like put alot of diamonds on them for added value and emo-chicks can paint theirs black with teardrops on them.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Noir

Get with technology PA_SVX. Barcoding's a thing of the past. Tracking collars, bracelets, and ankle cuffs would work much better. Think of all the nice Hello Kitty stickers and ornaments one could attach to those things.

Paris Hilton could like put alot of diamonds on them for added value and emo-chicks can paint theirs black with teardrops on them.

Hey Harry, you must be getting long in the tooth. Last year a UK scientist has a chip embedded in his arm which enabled his every movement to be tracked around his university. How long before we all have these fitted?

President Blair has just announced that all cars will soon be fitted with satellite trackers so that drivers will be charged for all road useage. This also means that speeding tickets can be sent automatically, and that your every movement on the road will be logged. Maybe George Orwell was right.

[Royal Tiger]

If you actually read the back and forth exchange I was pointing out my point on securing on natural resources, not specificly Iraq, but you could use that arguement. I try not to cast people but if you were offended, sorry. You can take any geo-political policy and make it personal like the killing the neighbor comment. That was my point. As for the bar-code, it was an idea. The chip sounds better. But for ID reasons it makes sense. Here's a twist to make it personal. Say your mom was killed by the goofy neighbor next door. The Police know who he is, but he fled. If they could punch in his ID number and find him anywhere in the US and pick him up, would you vote for it? Making anything personal makes it hard to be objective.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Andy

Hey Harry, you must be getting long in the tooth. Last year a UK scientist has a chip embedded in his arm which enabled his every movement to be tracked around his university. How long before we all have these fitted?

President Blair has just announced that all cars will soon be fitted with satellite trackers so that drivers will be charged for all road useage. This also means that speeding tickets can be sent automatically, and that your every movement on the road will be logged. Maybe George Orwell was right.

Oh yes, I know all about the tracking chip that can be embedded along with Blair and his vision. I just accessorized the same technology for kicks and giggles.

I also would like to be apart of Blair's vision that may gain popularity with Bush and his crew. There's boocu bucks to be made there and I'd move to Sweden or Hong Kong after it's been totally implemented.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by PA_SVX

If you actually read the back and forth exchange I was pointing out my point on securing on natural resources, not specificly Iraq, but you could use that arguement. I try not to cast people but if you were offended, sorry. You can take any geo-political policy and make it personal like the killing the neighbor comment. That was my point. As for the bar-code, it was an idea. The chip sounds better. But for ID reasons it makes sense. Here's a twist to make it personal. Say your mom was killed by the goofy neighbor next door. The Police know who he is, but he fled. If they could punch in his ID number and find him anywhere in the US and pick him up, would you vote for it? Making anything personal makes it hard to be objective.

You see I think differently than most. I believe that murderers should be released to the families of the victims. If the families feel that the perp should be given a second chance after some rehab, then so be it. If the families decide that the perp should fry, then ready the batter and heat up the oil. Then there's always China's way of dealing with it. Straight up execution. I was there in Hong Kong recently and on one of the news station they were covering the manhunt for a dude that murdered someone. They caught him, found that he was guilty through investigation, and executed him. That works for me too.

I wouldn't vote for the tracking system even if my whole family was killed and the killer got away because he want 'tagged' with a tracker. Intelligence should be rewarded. If the killer was smart enough to elude the 10's and 20's of law enforcement personel, then hell he should get away. That's right, Al Deniro <ninja edit> should have gotten away in the movie 'Heat'. I pay my taxes so that fine young men like yourself can have shadows to chase. Where's the challenge zeroing in on a criminal with a locator? Besides, what's the point of barcoding and tracking people? The ones that are going to commit a crime anyway will find a way to beat the system and those who are stupid and act out of emotion will get caught relatively quickly anyway, so I don't see a point why me and my dog fido needs a tracking collar other than for aesthics. It's not like having a tracking system will prevent crimes, it'll just make it easier for lads like yourself.

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally Posted by Noir

That's right, Al Pacino should have gotten away in the movie 'Heat'.

You're insane.

Pacino played a cop in that movie.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pockets

You're insane.

Pacino played a cop in that movie.

Dayum, you're right, I meant Deniro. You know the drill, all those male actors look alike to me.

[Phast SVX]

Originally Posted by drivemusicnow

maybe you need to learn how the eff "natural recources" ie oil, actually work in todays markets. then we can discuss it... rationally.

Sure, iraq has oil. yes, we went to war for oil.. but wait.. uh oh... heres the kicker... why is crude more expensive now? There wasn't a shortage in the first place. Bush/gov't went to war cause they felt like it. personal vendetta, not really, oil, partly, republicans idea of how to stimulate the economy... whatever. there has NOT been a clear reason given to the people for a war, therefor your going to have people *****ing the fact that we can't even decide on a reason, much less being told "this is why we are attacking iraq" is rediculous. Thats a problem

oh, and while you're tatooing people, maybe you should add a thought-crime law. with little monitors in everyones room so we know what everyone is doing.


OH and ONE more thing PA... Tell your "thats not whats happening spiel" To the local chicago restaraunt owner who just now, after 6 months got out of jail. he was arrested and detained for being thought to be helping terrorists... just happens that he was actually not doing anything of the sort. but oh no, thats not at all happening.

The BS"patriot act" allows people to be detained without proof if they are suspected of terrorism...

We have struck deals with oil companys and opec throughout the years to keep oil prices artificially low due to our vast consumption. The real price of oil(meaning inflation adjusted oil prices) is still below the actual level of inflation(which isnt a bad thing, you must release atleast as much money as the population is increasing to keep a balance) of what it should be. You are once again making immature allegations. If you ever want to see a democratic president again, i suggest you realize that your point of view isnt hte only point of view. And, as you have shown here. Infact i want you to do something for me. Turn on a news station from a differnt country, they usually show them on PBS after hours, espeically BBC news. Watch what they report on, then turn on CCN. You will see that interior critcism is beyond rational explanation, and is definetly a product of letting peoples emotions overtake their minds. think back in every relationship or fight you have been in, when has letting your emotions overtake your thoughts led you to do the right thing? Let it out, the only reason you have such hate in your heart is becuase you were raised to be a democrat.


Reguarding someone else comments about How we "went it alone" and what not,of course we had to. The united nations is good for some things and bad for others. The french had veto power in the security council,Germany hasnt agreed with anything we have said since 1909, and Kofi Anons son was head of the oil for food program.

[UberRoo]

I keep going back to the roots of American history - it's such a good place to start. One of the many things we liked about having our own nation was the idea that everybody was entitled to a fair trial. Unfortunately it's not possible to ensure that no criminal goes unpunished, nor is it possible to ensure that no man is imprisoned unjustly.

"Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison." --- Thoreau

The difficulties of our (or any) system is illustrated by the fact that many convicted criminals are later exonerated when new evidence comes to light. The horror of this is most striking when the truth is uncovered after the punishment for a capitol offense is carried out. Under any system however, this is unavoidable. The system we have seems to be the best. The Patriot Act and similar notions are dangerous because they upset the balance of our current system. Let me restate that our system is not flawless, but I'm fairly certain that any tampering with it by the government is likely to only introduce more problems.

An ideal society would be entirely self-governing. Obviously this isn't really possible. Originally, our government was intended to simply keep things in check. Over time it has grown to the point where it micro manages every aspect of our lives - or at least as much as it is able. In the ideal society, imbedded microchips and barcodes would not be necessary. Ah, but reality keeps interfering. Here's the problem:

Bill Of Rights
IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Microchips and barcodes would make it virtually impossible for people to be secure against unreasonable searches and seizures. It's like an electronic star of David. Faith in the government to use restraint is not sufficient, and that is the very reason we have the Bill Of Rights.

The reality though... Again, the reality is that 1984 is inevitable. Eventually we will be duped by the government and Big Brother will be master. It a natural part of any society, and over a sufficiently long timeline, it will happen. It's up to us, the citizens, to resist any changes, no matter how small or seemingly harmless, that might encroach upon our freedoms. By doing this we can prolong the inevitable. Once the inevitable happens, the only solution is to aggravate the problem until a revolution happens. I'm not looking forwards to that. (Actually, I kinda am, but cautiously.) I previously quoted Mark Twain, that "...[we]are the guardians of the law and that the law officers are only the machinery for its execution, nothing more." Tampering with the laws is like playing with fire.

"When they took away the Fourth Amendment, I said nothing. I didn't
deal in drugs. When they took away the Sixth Amendment, I said nothing.
I was innocent. When they took away the Second Amendment, I said
nothing. I didn't own a gun. Now they've taken away the First
Amendment, and I can say nothing." --- unknown

[Royal Tiger]

One of the parts of the Patriot Act that Law Enforcement like the FBI support is the waiving of the restricitions on ancillary warrants for exigent circumstances. If they are doing a wire tap, with a warrant, and pick up info on someone caught in the web, it waives the need to stop the investigation into the new person until a new warrant is secured. There is still checks and balances when the person is picked up the courts can always exclude the new info for lack of probable cause, however, the new info isn't tossed on the lack of a new warrant at the time. Helps get the guilty and still protects those charged in the first place. It seems like most of you hate the Patriot Act because someone told you to. Read it. All 4 volumes.

[UberRoo]

The Patriot Act seems so innocuous, but that's how the erosion of liberty begins. Most of the stuff in the act already existed in other legislation to some extent, and most of us didn't even know it! What I can't figure out is how the act even passed. It basically allows searches without a warrant, especially section 505 of the act. This is specifically and clearly prohibited by amendment four of the bill of rights. You'd think at the very least, the government should follow it's own laws. If this doesn't raise red flags in your mind, what will? It's crucial to nip this sort of thing in the bud.

For those of you who don't want to attempt the painful process of actually reading (and extensively cross-referencing) the Patriot Act, here are a series of short articles which do a pretty good job of outlining the most controversial components of the act:

Part 1 - Part 2 - Part 3 - Part 4

Section 505 allows an investigating authority to subpoena pretty much anything that may have information about you. There is no approval process, no judge, no review, and effectively no accountability for these subpoenas. More interesting, unlike the most other parts of the Patriot Act which expire on December 31st, 2005, section 505 does not. Perhaps they thought they'd be able to slip that one past us.

PA_SVX is right in believing that many people don't like the Patriot Act simply because they were told it was bad. Be careful of what you read. The ACLU probably isn't the best source of information, nor is the federal government.

From, A Guide to the Patriot Act, Part 1
"Ashcroft and his supporters on the stump cite a July 31 Fox News/Opinion Dynamics Poll showing that 91 percent of registered voters say the act had not affected their civil liberties. One follow-up question for them: How could they know?"