Subaru Diesel?

[JohnU]

My 96 developed an awful ticking noise this past weekend that sounds just like a diesel engine (a bad diesel engine at that) at only 55k on the clock. After doing many searches on this forum, I decided it was either the flex plate or valves (my guess, valves). I took it to the local Subaru shop to have them confirm my thoughts and they did, throwing a quart of tranny fluid in my oil, telling me to come back at the end of the week and if that didn't fix it they would replace my lifters (lash adjusters). They said the lifters would cost a whopping $1000 in parts alone, cuz "that car has 24 of em". I thanked them, paid my $45 for their service and told them I would handle the rest.

It has been a couple of days and it seems to be getting louder, which I am sure is because of the tranny fluid in my crankcase (and the pint of Marvels I threw in before that). I plan on doing an oil change this evening and using some "lifter medic" to see if that cures the problem. If that does not, I see my only option is to operate, which comes to my real questions.

1. Has anyone removed the lash adjusters to clean them? And has it worked?
2. How difficult is it to get to the lash adjusters on the passenger side? I have a service manual and the procedure does not look too difficult. I also have some experience working on cars and I was a submarine mechanic, so I do have a bit of mechanical knowledge.

Any information would be helpful

John

[svx_commuter]

This is the first time I have heard of lifter failure around here. The lifters in the SVX look pretty solid as in they are are all metal with not elastomers. If they were bad I would guess they are clogged and cleaning as you say would help but how would you know they were clened? It isn't possible to take them apart. There are just two small holes for the oil and that's it.

Is the cooling system in good shape? radiator clear? both fans working? Over heating could cook some oil in the lifters I guess.

Take a look at the thread "Engine pics!" and you see what's involved. I would take the engine out to get to the lifters. I think it would be really difficult to do in the car. After it's out you have to remove, T-belt, valve covers and then cam shafts.

Have you considered the oil pump? Lifters get real noisy when the oil pressure is low. The XT-6 had that problem. I also know that sometimes the plate in the suby oil pump can come loose. This happened on my 97OBS at 75k miles. If this is the problem you would see oil leaking under the engine in front.

I would also check the oil pressure before I pulled the engine apart. Unless I was looking for an excuse to have some fun.

If it's not the oil pump I would try some Lucas engine oil treatment. Yeah I'm sort of sold on the Lucas products. The engine oil treatment says it will quiet lifters.

[huck369]

I know you can dis-assemble the older Subie lifters, and would think you could the SVX's as well to clean them out.

You have to pull the valve cover and cam to take them out....the passenger side will be the easiest side to do.

I have my old motor sitting in the garage and it's lifters had started ticking, so I put a lower mileage motor in it, but it ran fine, so I might one of these day pull the lifters out and try to clean them out....might build me a rail buggy to put it in ....

[JohnU]

Commuter:

Bad Lifters: Looking at the service manual it looks like there is a ball check inside, but if none of that is accessible, the only thing I can think of is to make sure the holes are clear.

Temp: Temp needle has never risen past horizontal, coolant is clear, and both fans run, so I don’t suspect a temp problem.

Engine Removal: Not really in my comfort realm, too much to go wrong and too much time. It looks to me that there is room to remove the t-belt, passenger side valve cover and cams with the motor still in, just wondering if anyone else had done or attempted it. If it cannot be done, then I will have to rethink my options.

Oil Pump: I briefly considered this, but I have not seen foaming in the oil (no bubble on dipstick, unless there is a different way to tell) so I figured it wasn’t sucking air. I do have an oil leak, it is pretty small and I thing it is toward the rear of the engine (ir it is running along something and dripping in the back). I will have to see if it is coming from the oil pump. Hadn’t thought about low oil pressure, wouldn’t I get a check engine light though? How would I check for oil pressure?

Oil Treatment: I plan on trying as much of these products as I can before I do anything else, but my guess is they are all just some variant of the same thing, a petroleum distillate that is a bit more like a solvent than an oil. All of the products I see on the shelf say they quiet lifters I am just not having any luck yet and question running these “thinners” for any extended period of time.

Huck:
I was hoping I could take the lifters apart, hopefully that is possible if I need to get that far. Luckily this is on the passenger side.


If I have to open her up, I will try it in the car and make sure I post details. I don’t post much here (been a frequent lurker for over a year so I know most the “faces”). I try to use the searches for everything, but haven’t had luck with this issue so I want to make sure the info is in here.

[huck369]

If you do remove them, be sure to lets us know if you can dis-assemble and clean them....best of luck to you...

I pulled my motor in less than 3 hours by myself....it's not to bad, and would make everything easy to do out of the car...just something to think about

[svxfiles]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnU
[B Hadn’t thought about low oil pressure, wouldn’t I get a check engine light though? How would I check for oil pressure?
With a low pressure oil condition, the valves will tap.
The oil light goes off with only

2.1psi ! .
On the top of the engine block, almost under the alternator, on the passenger side of the car, is the stock oil pressure sender. If you install a 1/8"npt "T", and install an oil pressure guage evan if you leave it on the engine, you will know what your pressure is.

[JohnU]

Well it is possible to get the passenger side valve cover off and remove the cams and lifters. It really wasn't that difficult but I still have to get everything back together.

Unfortunately my lifter noise was not a bad lifter but it looks like there is a little treaded plug in the head just above the rear intake lifter (top back of head). This little plug moved its way out and got between the lifter and cam. This caused the lifter bushing to get damaged, jamming the lifter and valve in compressed position.

The noise I first heard may have been the cam hitting the plug while it was still in the head, but the other day my engine would not idle, I am guessing this was when the plug finally came out and did all of the damage.

I am not sure if the lifter bush can be removed and replaced, or if the plug can be replaced either, I may be in for a new head.

I have placed pictures in my Locker

[UberRoo]

Edit:
It looks like I was working on my reply while you were working on your car. I'll leave it here anyway. It may apply to somebody someday.


I would consider this: If it is a sticky lifter(s), the best way to 'unstick' it without opening up the engine is to give it lots of oil pressure. The best way to get pressure is to have thick oil and high RPMs. The best way to get thick oil is to use an extra high viscosity oil, and make sure the oil is cold.

So, my recommendation is to find some 50W or comparable, and maybe throw in a jug or two of some STP. Drive the engine to get things mixed in, then let it cool. Sometime when the engine is nice and cold, start it and warm it up for less than a minute, maybe thirty seconds at the most, and then rev 'er up nice and high. You won't get more oil pressure than that.

The idea of revving an engine unnecessarily rubs me the wrong way. The idea of unnecessarily revving a cold engine reeeeally rubs me the wrong way. I had a sticky lifter once in my beater Subaru. I took it out, cleaned it, put it back in, and it still wouldn't rise. One morning when the engine was cold, I started it up and revved it up past redline. ...and it's never been a problem since. I revved it twice right up to 6000, but it was still unhappy. I was ready to junk the engine, so I figured it'd be fun to let it die at 10,000 RPM. Instead it started working at 6500. Go figure.

Also; Transmission fluid? Like ATF, or like 90W? Thick oil usually makes things quiet. Thin oil does not.

Anyway, that's my story. Don't blow your engine up by following my advice, but if you're at the point where you're ready to drive it off a cliff, you might give it a try. I think the engine would probably be just fine hitting 8000 RPM once or twice even if the rev-limiter allowed it. I would bet that with thick oil, you won't have to.



By the way, when adding STP or any other thick additive to the oil, only pour it in after the engine is warm and while it's running. Also, it's best to pre-heat the jug. It will pour out at a more reasonable rate too. If you don't do these things, there is a good chance the thick additives will simply stick to the bottom of the oil pan. (I've removed the pans and found an inch of STP just clinging to the bottom, fresh as the day it was poured in, over a decade ago.)

[JohnU]

Follow up - I finally got the car put back together last night and she is running beautifully - knock on wood -. I had to replace the head since the head damage was not repairable. I also had to replace the one valve that got jammed in because it was bent. Bending a valve on a non-interference engine is not common/easy, but I am guessing the valve was pushed in a bit further than normal when the "incident" occurred.

I was able to do all of this work with the engine still in the car and it wasn’t that difficult. The biggest problem was probably not having clearance to get a torque wrench on the camshaft bearing caps. I had to use the “calibrated arm” method. I have had good experience with this method when done correctly (torque a bolt with a torque wrench then put your ratchet on it to get an idea of how much force you have to put on the remaining bolts, using the same ratchet).

I ordered all parts from Jackie (SubaruPartsgirl), except the valve since that was discovered at the last second, and highly recommend her for all parts. She was very helpful in getting the parts and was even able to overnight a new headgasket after I found the first one she sent was damaged in shipping. I may post a separate thread encouraging fellow members to use her when possible.

I am pretty happy with the results and feel pretty good that I was able to do all of the work myself (except having a machine shop grind the valves and cut the seats to ensure the valves seat properly).

Thanks everyone for their advice.

[oab_au]

That is something, that i don't think any one, would have suspected. But we will file it away in the memory bank for the future. Well done, for someone that is use to working under water.

Harvey.

[TomsSVX]

i have the lifters out of a motor right now, and by looking at them, they do not seem to be easily disassembled. I am in need of replacing the head gaskets so i had to tear it down. the lifters seem to be one peice as they stand now. I am also not looking to destroy one of them to find out.

[JohnU]

i have the lifters out of a motor right now, and by looking at them, they do not seem to be easily disassembled. I am in need of replacing the head gaskets so i had to tear it down. the lifters seem to be one peice as they stand now. I am also not looking to destroy one of them to find out.

Yeah, there is no way to disassemble the lifters. I just made sure each felt "springy" and the oil ports were clear.

Funny thing is, on the one new lifter I put in, it had no movement at all when I removed it from the package. It was solid like a rock. I first tried tapping it with a hammer to get movement with no luck. Then I decided that I would just use the old "damamged" lifter (it only had a little scratch on the top). I then hammered the snot out of the new one just to see if it would move and still nothing. The next day when I got to putting the lifters back in, I noticed the old "bad" one sat a bit lower than the other lifters and I wasnt sure about using that one either. I then picked up that new lifter I beat on, and it now had movement. Thought it was odd that it freed itself up overnight, but it did.

When I got everything back together I had some loud tapping at first (as expected), but after 10 minutes of fairly light driving, the car has never sounded quieter.

[TomsSVX]

the new lifter needed to be pumped up w/ oil before it would have any movement. It was probobly in a fully depressed state.