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  #1  
Old 08-23-2003, 07:47 AM
want-a-fast-svx want-a-fast-svx is offline
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Engine Install

HEy everyone, i have a few questions about installing the engine back into the car...We have the engine in the car and mated to the tranny but we cant get the engine mounts to drop into the holes in the sub-frame...Also the rubber stopper on the top of the tranny wont line up either, but i think that is because the mounts won't drop in..And finally when we put the engine in we didnt realize the torque converter bolts weren't lined up in the back, so does this mean we have to pull the tranny totally apart from the engine to try to spin the torque converter to get to the spots for the screws to line up???Sorry for all the questions but the time is finally here and we are starting to run into small things that are holding us up big time...Any and all help is greatly appreciated, thanks again...

-derek
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  #2  
Old 08-23-2003, 07:58 AM
want-a-fast-svx want-a-fast-svx is offline
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i just remembered one more thing...Then engine should be able to be turned by the pulley up front correect??? Cause we were gonig to try and turn the engine over by hand to acces the torque converter bolts and the engine won't budge, we tried to use the cam pulleys to move it but they would not budge...(Just thought of this as i'm typing) should the tranny be in neutral while we are trying to turn it to get to the bolts???Sorry again for the length i'm tired of not driving my baby though and you all are my best bet...thanks again ill be back to check this after i get of work this afternoon...
derek
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  #3  
Old 08-23-2003, 08:49 AM
lee lee is offline
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Exclamation IMPORTANT

the torque converter should spin with just hand pressure. If it doesn't, then that means it isn't fully seated in the housing and if you turn the engine to line it up, then pull it all together by using the bolts, you WILL destroy the pump and/or the shaft from the TC to the tranny. I destroyed one by making this mistake, so take heed. At this point, it may be easiest to take the tranny out, put in the engine, check the TC then mated them back together.

sorry don't know about engine mounts, never had the engine out.
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Old 08-23-2003, 04:03 PM
want-a-fast-svx want-a-fast-svx is offline
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sooo...

You are saying that with the engine and tranny together the torque converter should still be spinning by hand??? Because as the engine gets closer to the tranny (meaning closer to connecting) the torque converter gets consistently harder to turn and then its to the point of where it wont turn at all...Not sure if this is making sense but if anyone has any suggestions please inform us, because school starts monday and i would like to have this project over before then...Any and all help is greatly appreciated, i would really not like to take the tranny out if that can be avoided...
Thanks for any and all helpe
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  #5  
Old 08-23-2003, 05:04 PM
lee lee is offline
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Re: sooo...

Quote:
Originally posted by want-a-fast-svx
You are saying that with the engine and tranny together the torque converter should still be spinning by hand??? ...snip...
see this thread...

http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...&threadid=5472

I assure you that if the TC does not spin freely then you have not fully seated the TC. If you try to make it work like that you WILL ruin the transmission. You should be able to reach in the hole that you use to insert the TC bolts and spin the TC by hand to line up the bolt holes - not like a freely spinning top, but it shouldn't be hard either. Both myself and another forum member ruined a transmission like this, don't be the third.

If you don't want to pull the tranny, then you have to pull the engine back out and fully seat the TC. That by itself may give you enough rear movement that you could then get the engine mounts to drop in place. The way you describe it, the TC is out too far by about 1/2" inch and that is perhaps enough to stop the engine from oving properly over the mount holes.

Last edited by lee; 08-23-2003 at 05:14 PM.
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  #6  
Old 08-23-2003, 07:10 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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Fitting the TC to box.

What Lee is saying is good info. When you fit the torque converter to the box, Two shafts have to engage, first the drive shaft has to fit into the splines of the turbine. Turn the converter till the shaft engages and the box moves in a bit. Just like a manual box drive shaft engaging into the clutch plate.

Then turn again till the two lugs on the back of the impeller housing engage with the slots that drive the pump, in the front of the box. These are about 1/2" long and are only two, so you will have to turn the converter a good turn or so to get them to engage. If they are not engaged and you tighten the bolts it will push the center out of the pump.

If you have done it right, when you have tightened the bell housing to the engine, you will still be able to turn the converter freely through the starter hole or the hole under the car, then fit and tighten the bolts between the flex plate and impeller housing and your done.

All the best

Harvey.
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  #7  
Old 08-23-2003, 07:42 PM
lee lee is offline
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one more thing to add...yes you can turn over the engine by a socket and breaker bar on the crank pulley.
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  #8  
Old 08-23-2003, 07:55 PM
want-a-fast-svx want-a-fast-svx is offline
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ok we're a little confused as to what the "pump" is you are talking about and the 2 lugs on the back of the impeller housing???? What are these two things???Also the TC was spinning freely as we were putting the engine in...Is it possible that it might have gotten misaligned somehow???If so that more than likely means i just ruined the tranny then correct siince its totally bolted together and everything???It just seems that the TC would be spinning if the engine mounts were to drop into place, the only problem is that the mounts don't want to go in..They are hitting the inside of each of the slots they are supposed to go through...Sorry again for the length we're just getting very frustrated, its been about 25hours now of install time and the engine isnt even close to running yet...
SOrry had to vent , thanks for the help this far and in the future
-derek
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  #9  
Old 08-23-2003, 08:23 PM
lee lee is offline
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the pump is the hydraulic pump for the transmission - what moves the ATF around inside the unit. I'll try to translate Harvey speak....The two lugs Harvey references are two cutouts about 1" wide by 1" deep in the hollow extension shaft (about 10" long) that connects the torque converter to the transmission. You can't see it when the transaxle is all together, but inside the transmission part of the transaxle is the impeller - what I've been just calling the pump. These lugs/cutouts have to engage with the impeller/pump.

if you haven't yet tried to start the motor there is still a good chance you haven't damaged the pump. But believe me, when the engine and tranny is bolted up tight, the torque converter will still spin with hand pressure alone.

without having it apart it's very hard to tell you more than what Harvey passed along, but I'll try. The extension shaft on the end of the TC is connected via a spring clip and it sticks out about 8 or 10 inches. When you slide that TC/Shaft assembly back into the transaxle housing and spin it a bit, you can feel it engage the splines (or it wouldn't go in at all). Then with a bit of pushing pressure against it, you spin it again, and it moves back even farther into the housing. As Harvey said, the first engagement is the spines, the second is when the two cutouts/lugs on the shaft engage the pump.

When I screwed up mine I had made the spline engagement, but not the second set with the pump. I then turned the engine enough with the transaxle loosely bolted up until I could get the first TC/flexplate bolt inserted. Then I turned the engine by hand to get the others installed, and then pulled it all up tight to the engine. When I started the engine is when the trouble started as I ruined both the pump and the extension shaft on the torque converter. Luckily I had spares as I was doing this with an old transaxle as my differential had died but the tranny was still good.

I don't mind helping, I'm just trying to keep you from making the same mistake I did, as it will be costly for you. I think that just by removing the engine you could have pulled the torque converter out enough it no longer has the lugs engaged with the pump. I really see no way out for you but to pull the engine - at least enough to get in there and to push and turn the TC until the pump has been engaged. If the TC can not be turned by hand, then it's not together correctly and it's a VERY high probability it's becuase the TC has not engaged the pump.

If it will help, you can e-mail me direct at lbridges@cfl.rr.com or starting tomorrow morning call me at home after about 8AM eastern time @ 321-768-0425. Maybe direct contact would be better than typing back and forth, your decision. If you read this tonite, it's about 10:25 PM Eastern and I'll wait til about 11.

Last edited by lee; 08-23-2003 at 08:25 PM.
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  #10  
Old 08-23-2003, 08:37 PM
lee lee is offline
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one more thing just to make sure we're on the same wavelength.

you cn't turn the flexplate (toothed) without turning the engine, by a socket on the crank pulley. But the TC it sits next to can be turned by hand pressure until one of its holes lines up with a hole in the flexplate. You should be able to test this regardless if you can see a flexplate hole by reaching into the hole at the top-back of the engine and trying to spin the TC. If it does spin then you're OK, if it doesn't then the post above applies.
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  #11  
Old 08-23-2003, 08:45 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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The pump is in the front of the gear box, it is driven by the back of the converter housing. I cant find a picture of the of it, but it looks like it uses a spline instead of two lugs to drive it.
The way to fit the box is to put the converter in the front of the box turn till it engages the drive shaft, then turn some more to engage the pump drive shaft.

Offer the box up to the back of the motor and locate spigot on the front of the converter into the hole in the center of the flex plate. The box should slide in and you should be able to turn the converter as Lee says to line up the flex plate bolts.

It looks like the converter has moved forward during your struggles, to disengage the pump splines. You need to loosen the bolts between the engine and gear box, to let the converter turn, take out the flex plate to converter bolts and turn the converter around till it does engage properly.

With a bit of luck nothing will be damaged.

Harvey.
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  #12  
Old 08-23-2003, 08:54 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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Oh to be able to type as quick as I think.

Lee has the goods. He will put you right.

Harvey.
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  #13  
Old 08-24-2003, 10:03 AM
want-a-fast-svx want-a-fast-svx is offline
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ok we pulled the engine totally out for the 4th time last night and the torque converter is stuck on the shaft that goes into to the tranny..However the torque converter is spinning on the end of the shaft but the shaft is not spinning at all...It seems like its stuck on the clip or something b/c only the TC spins not the shaft...THanks for the help so far...Lee i will probably have to call you for help on this one if you dont mind i truly appreciate the help from you alll
-derek
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  #14  
Old 08-24-2003, 05:27 PM
want-a-fast-svx want-a-fast-svx is offline
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Ok so upon pulling the TC out with the input shaft still attached we found the clip (no. 8 in the exploded diagram in the service manual) it looks like it clips in the last little indention i guess not too sure but its definitely in need of a replacement now...so until i get the part it looks like ill be waiting till wed or thurs probably....thanks for the help thus far and im sure ill have more questions to come....any help that is offered is greatly appreciated...
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  #15  
Old 08-26-2003, 12:10 AM
want-a-fast-svx want-a-fast-svx is offline
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btt
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