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  #16  
Old 09-15-2003, 05:43 AM
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Re: Re: 4.11 diffs

Quote:
Originally posted by b3lha


I think the author of the yahoo messages is referring to 4.11 diffs on an automatic.
The author also states that the EG33 is not suited to a 5mt and that is why Subaru never made one.

Quote "The 5mt is a true 5 speed, at least all the ones I have or had are/were.
Subaru had the 5mt that could take the torque of the EG33, they chose
not to use it because the tuning of the engine was for an auto and the
job to rematch to a 5mt would not be suitable for the limited US market
it was aimed at, since most want auto. All I am saying here is forget
the 5mt solution because the engine is not suitable; so another sub
optimal solution. I have tried many permutations and have arrived at
the conclusion Subaru did a really good job with the design and no
backyard engineer is going to do better."

Seems to be a very definitive statement on the 5mt. If this is incorrect from the experience of owners who have done the conversion, it must cast doubts on the authors accuracy ragarding the 4eat
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  #17  
Old 09-15-2003, 08:38 AM
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thanks for the link to the yahoo site.. that's a pretty good post. i'm not sure if can wrap my brain around what he's saying about the 4.11's though.. it kinda seems like they put the transmission in a position (hey that rhymes) where it isn't able to get all the power it needs from the engine.. not sure if that's the right track or not. well anyway, none of this is going to be done until i get the money together, and that could be a few months easily, so i'll have plenty of time to think about it and i'm always delighted to accept input from you folks

-adam
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  #18  
Old 09-15-2003, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by NomadTW
if you plant to mod to any amount of more power, even putting out 20 more hp from exhaust and a UD pulley... i would recomend agains the 5mt they break

i am keeping the auto and putting 4.11's in mine because my front diff broke...

it will decrease your gas mileage on the hwy, probably not as much in the city in stop and go,

shouldn't decrease the relieablity remember aircraft builders use the eg33 because its well designed to run at 6000 rpm constantly for hours on end without changing rpms...
Yea, well I have the Stebro exhaust on mine and I have a 5MT... No problems what so ever... The only reason they break is because people mistreat them... Look at Huck's tranny, he has a crap load of miles on it and it is still ticking away!!!
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  #19  
Old 09-15-2003, 11:33 AM
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Well whoever believes that 250hp will break the tranny is very much mistaken... Sure it is a semi weak tranny but it is abuse that causes it to break most of the time... If any of ya have read my posts about taking my friend's modded WRX wagon to the track and running 4 people in it on the strip with 6,000 clutch drops.... And his car is at about 300+whp!!! After 32,000miles his car is still going... So what does that tell us??? Nothing, because he abuses the hell out of his car and it has a crap load of mods done to it as well... My 5 speed had a little over 6,000 miles on it when I put it in... Now I'd say that it is around 9,000 miles, and it runs great, shifts fine, and is a pleasure to drive!!! But if you are going for the Auto with a higher final drive I'd say go for it!!! I'm really courious to see how it runs because that is what I wanted to do before I did my 5 speed swap... Good luck with whatever ya do!!!
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  #20  
Old 09-15-2003, 11:36 AM
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Also, with my mods I believe that I am very clost to, if not above 250hp... I will find out for sure at Subaru of Gwinett this comming weekend if I get out there in time... Then we can see if 250 hp in an SVX can break a 5mt...
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  #21  
Old 09-15-2003, 06:31 PM
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Well I called the salvage yard for parts today, they seemed slitely confused but their looking. Anyhoo, how do you figure you got 250Hp. Chris? With smack talk like that I'm gona have to hand your ass to ya when we get to Reading ( running out to get some Nos just to make sure). And I'm thinking a 4:11 auto will give a 5 speed a good run, at least I would like to find out. As for the strength of the 5 speeds, I still don't know how I managed to brake 5th gear in my first one but the second tranny is holding up fine, and I do drive pretty hard. The secret is easy launches, they can still be very fast but don't try to do 6,000rom clutch dumps, 230hp is not enough to brake loose 900mm's of rubber from under 3,700lbs, so don't try.
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  #22  
Old 09-15-2003, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Subafreak
Well I called the salvage yard for parts today, they seemed slitely confused but their looking. Anyhoo, how do you figure you got 250Hp. Chris? With smack talk like that I'm gona have to hand your ass to ya when we get to Reading ( running out to get some Nos just to make sure). And I'm thinking a 4:11 auto will give a 5 speed a good run, at least I would like to find out. As for the strength of the 5 speeds, I still don't know how I managed to brake 5th gear in my first one but the second tranny is holding up fine, and I do drive pretty hard. The secret is easy launches, they can still be very fast but don't try to do 6,000rom clutch dumps, 230hp is not enough to brake loose 900mm's of rubber from under 3,700lbs, so don't try.
Exactly. Just becuase you get off the line fast dosnt mean that you have to beat hte living crap out of it and leave violently. MY 2cents :\

And if you ask me, anything is still better then the old 4hea...i mean 4eat
phil
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  #23  
Old 09-16-2003, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by alacrity024
thanks for the link to the yahoo site.. that's a pretty good post. i'm not sure if can wrap my brain around what he's saying about the 4.11's though.. it kinda seems like they put the transmission in a position (hey that rhymes) where it isn't able to get all the power it needs from the engine.. not sure if that's the right track or not. well anyway, none of this is going to be done until i get the money together, and that could be a few months easily, so i'll have plenty of time to think about it and i'm always delighted to accept input from you folks

-adam
That poster on the yahoo site has got it wrong. 4.11s in a 4eat will make the car faster in both a 0-60 run and the 1/4 mile. I did the math and took into consideration the powerband shown in SVX-R's dyno chart here on this forum. I posted a reply in the yahoo forum.
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  #24  
Old 09-16-2003, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
From: "mbtoloczko" <mbtoloczko@y...>
Date: Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:43 pm
Subject: Re: Diff ratios

ADVERTISEMENT
I'd like to comment on two of your conclusions, both of which you arrive at
without any concrete data.

1) You say 5MTs do not work well with the EG33. Do you read subaru-
svx.net? There are now quite a few members of that forum who have
converted over to the 5MT, and all love it. One member (elninoalex) has used
a GTech to measure 1/4 times and 0-60 times before and after the conversion,
and he gained a full second in his 0-60 just by converting to the 5MT. I have
personally driven two cars with the 5MT conversion, and both work fine. You
can chug around at 000 rpm, or you can crank it up to redline. There are
no issues with mating the powerband to the tranny gear ratios.

2) You say that changing the gear ratios of the 4eat is a waste of time. I
think
it will depend greatly on how the car is being driven. If someone is gunning
for 0-60, the tranny will be in power mode, and the rpms will be no where near
the ~2500 rpm stall speed. In this scenario, I'd bet on a 4eat with 4.11's
over
a 4eat with 3.54's. The shift point from 2-3 with 3.54's is around 75-85 mph
depending on whether the car shifts at 6200 rpm or closer to 6500 rpm. My
car consistently shifts somewhere between 6500 rpm and 7000 rpm when I
peg it. Anyhow, if we just multiply 75 mph * 3.54/4.11, we see that with 4.11
diffs, the car will shift at 65 mph or better. So, there are no issues with a
2-3
shift with the 4.11 diff when doing a 0-60 run. And if you wanted to be
absolutely certain there is 2-3 shift, put the tranny into "2". I guess we
also
have to take into consideration the powerband. The max HP is at 5400 rpm,
but I've seen a dyno chart of an SVX, and there is very little HP loss between
5400 rpm and 6500 rpm. If you want to see the dyno chart, here it is:

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/SVXtypeR/797.jpg

Based on these results, I would bet on the 4eat with 4.11s in a 0-60 any day of
the week. Please do your math and your research before telling everyone
that it won't work. BTW, following the same development, it is easy to see
that
the car will make the 3-4 shift at 101 mph *or better* with the 4.11 gears when
in power mode. Since the trap speed of this car in a 1/4 mile run is around 95
mph, we see that there will be no 3-4 shift during a 1/4 mile run, and thus a
4eat with 4.11 gears ought to handily beat a 4eat with 3.54 gears in the 1/4
mile too.

Other thoughts: During normal driving, the tranny will attempt to maintain
engine rpm somewhere between 1500 rpm and 3000 rpm. I typically drive
around town in "3". A 4.11 diff would allow the motor to run at a higher rpm
when cruising at 35+ mph. This would make the car more response at that
speed and probably allow the TC to do less work because is spin ratio would
be closer to 1:1. Gas mileage may suffer, but I'll take the responsiveness any
day.

Mychailo
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  #25  
Old 09-16-2003, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CigarJohnny
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If I would be a young man again and had to decide how to make my living, I
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  #26  
Old 09-16-2003, 04:28 PM
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  #27  
Old 09-16-2003, 05:13 PM
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You still arent avg out athe drivetrain loss(MASSIVE IN AT AWD) compared to just bad with a 5mt AWD. I still dont see an auto getin down off the line like the 5mt 4.11. Just my thoughts i guess. And you couldnt PAY me to put another 4eat into my car
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  #28  
Old 09-16-2003, 06:03 PM
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just for laughs, what would it cost to put 4.11 gears in the 4EAT?

i'm dumb on this topic - would the differential(s) need changed, too? i'm talking parts and typical labor cost. i'm guessing this would probably be one of the best performance mods for the money.
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  #29  
Old 09-16-2003, 10:10 PM
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to put new final drive gears in a transmission, it needs to come entirely apart. also, the gears in the rear diff need to be swapped, and if you want to retain use of your stock CV axles, you'll need to open your rear diff, pull its guts out, and replace them with the proper ones.

basically the only time when it makes sense to replace your final drive is during a rebuild.. otherwise, you're just doing a pretty unreasonable amount of work..

maybe i'll do some 0-60 times with my stock final drive and then some with the 4.11's.. i won't be able to post any quarter mile times though, since i'm pretty sure the SVX will top 80 in the .25

without third or fourth gear, i'm going to cross the line pegging the rev limiter.......

-adam
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