2006 MazdaSpeed 6

[Weebitob]

Its not that I hate when people don't like an automotive manufacturer, it is just when people start generalizing about one.

You realize that the quality of Ford America does not impact what so ever on Ford products made in other countries. And from what I have seen Ford has ranked quite well in JD Power, but the funny part is the nomination come from Ford vehicles not sold in the US. So you are right in the fact that most US based Fords are sub-par. I am not sure if it is because they are slouching on their supposed "home turf" or they feel that America is no longer a market suited for them other than the Mustang or perhaps the 500, I don't know.

I am sorry about going out on a limb after what I said above but I just have to tell you this. The Grand Prix GTP is a more powerful then the SVT Contour because not only does it have much more displacement at 3.8l compared to 2.5l but it is also supercharged. You also cannot forget that the 3800 has been around for almost 30 years so of course it would have a larger aftermarket. But the funny part is the base model has measly 10 more hp and 44 less torque, but thats not the performance model. Also, just look up the specs on the Noble GTO M12 and see some of the feats that the Duratec can do, don't forget we are posting about the engine here.

And deruvian, the Californian emission law would probably cut out any chance of turbo diesels from VW or Mercedes being sold in the US. It also seems that an automotive lobby, consisting of foreign and domestics auto makers called the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers is filing a suit against them. From what I see it, almost every automotive manufacture is against it. The only auto manufacturers to probably benefit from this are Honda, Hyundai and Toyota.

[Ron Mummert]

And Mr. Bricklin also inported (and sent a lot of folks to the cleaners again) the YUGO. And these days, he is looking to import a car from China.


China? So now IBM's in the car bidness?

I can see it now....The Moo Goo Gai Pantera. Runs on soy sauce, but must fill tank every 30 minutes please.

Wong Ron.

Originally posted by Weebitob
And deruvian, the Californian emission law would probably cut out any chance of turbo diesels from VW or Mercedes being sold in the US. It also seems that an automotive lobby, consisting of foreign and domestics auto makers called the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers is filling a suit against them. From what I see it, almost every automotive manufacture is against it. The only auto manufacturers to probably benefit from this are Honda, Hyundai and Toyota.

Things may have changed recently, but when the CA legislature started looking at the new emissions laws, Ford was the only manufacturer bitc*ing, moaning, and complaining.

[Weebitob]

That is probably because, aside from the other big two, Ford has their lobbying hands the farthest up the almost all aspects of the US government including state's, never mind. You get the picture of what I am saying about Ford's circle of influence.

[Chiketkd]

Originally posted by deruvian
Close-ratio gearing doesn't mean anything if the final-drive is so high that the power output won't be able to overcome it. Sounds similar to the SVX to me...

Not too similar of a comparison Deruvian as the MazdaSpeed 6 is only offered as a 6MT. With the SVX you have 4 widely spaced gear ratios - while the MS6 utilizes 6. That's a huge difference alone right there...

Originally posted by deruvian
Well, doesn't this sound similar, once again, to the SVX. I hope it takes off better than the SVX did.

I'm sure it will as the VW R32, Neon SRT-4, WRX STI and Lancer EVO are only offered in manual versions and are selling much better in the US than the SVX did. Most hard-core auto enthusiasts prefer a manual transmission anyway...


(From an earlier post on page 3...)

Originally posted by deruvian
Firstly, it is an AWD tranny. Right there, instantly, the car is going to lose ~25% - 30% of the power by the time it hits the pavement. Secondly, the final drive ratios are too high, which, ironically, is exactly like the SVX.

The stock AWD SVX in good condition runs from about 7.1 - 7.3. With a quality clutch dump, I can see this car running a 6.3 at best. 6.5 seems to be pretty accurate to me.

Not quite Deruvian.

The LSi version of the SVX weighs in at ~3600lbs w/o driver. With four wide spaced gear ratios, an automatic transmission and 230hp & 228ft-lbs, a 7.1 second run to 60mph for our cars is quite good in stock form.

The MazdaSpeed 6 will be almost exactly the same weight (if not a little lighter), use a close ratio 6 speed *manual* transmission, and comes with 274hp (+44hp) and a whopping 280 ft-lbs (+52ft-lbs).

Furthermore, the drivetrain loss in the SVX will be much higher than the loss to the wheels in a manual awd car. From a ton of STI/EVO owners who've dyno'd their cars, the typical drivetrain loss in a manual awd car is closer to 19-22% (any evo/sti owner can back this claim).

Put these facts all together, and you'll see that the manufacturuer's 0-60mph claim of 6.2 seconds is conservative. Mid 5 second runs will be more the norm...

-Chike

P.S. Autoweek and a few other car mags quoted a time of 6.6s to 60mph which Mazda gave at the Paris Motor Show last September. However, the 'actual' figures Mazda quoted at that European auto show were 0-62mph (100kph) in 6.6s.

At the LA Auto Show, Mazda re-scaled this time to read 6.2s to 60mph on their official press release as reported by MotorTrend.

[Chiketkd]

-Chike

Originally posted by Weebitob
I am sorry about going out on a limb after what I said above but I just have to tell you this. The Grand Prix GTP is a more powerful then the SVT Contour beca

Whaaa?!?/1/?!?!?/



They aren't even the same kinda car. The GTP is huge, it's fullsize. The contour is quite small. I don't even understand why you're comparing them. A GTP is more akin to a Taurus SHO.

Look, you can come up with as many examples of X vs Y all you awnt, but what it boils down to is that the contour SVT is a great car.

Originally posted by Weebitob
That is probably because, aside from the other big two, Ford has their lobbying hands the farthest up the almost all aspects of the US government including state's, never mind. You get the picture of what I am saying about Ford's circle of influence.

Read "High And Mighty", a book about SUVs. GM has their hands much farther up washington's ass than Ford. Fact.

Originally posted by deruvian


Things may have changed recently, but when the CA legislature started looking at the new emissions laws, Ford was the only manufacturer bitc*ing, moaning, and complaining.

Ford also volunairly reduced the emissions of all their SUVs, forcing GM to follow suite. Ditto on many safety regulations concerning SUVs. Ford is raising the bar, GM is whining and doing as little work as possible.

Look, I don't even like ford, or GM, but a lot of you need to take of the rose colored glasses and see the real world.

[Weebitob]

Originally posted by justiceSVX


Whaaa?!?/1/?!?!?/



They aren't even the same kinda car. The GTP is huge, it's fullsize. The contour is quite small. I don't even understand why you're comparing them. A GTP is more akin to a Taurus SHO.

Look, you can come up with as many examples of X vs Y all you awnt, but what it boils down to is that the contour SVT is a great car.

Don't jump the gun, I was just responding to something Shadow248 mentioned. Also, I am not surprised GM has more lobbying power because don't forget who snatched the contract for the Humvee and consequently the Hummer.

On the Mazdaspeed6 I have a good feeling about this car. I hope too many people though don't take the currently guestimated 0-60 to heart.

[Chiketkd]

Originally posted by Weebitob
On the Mazdaspeed6 I have a good feeling about this car. I hope too many people though don't take the currently guestimated 0-60 to heart.

Agreed. a 3600lb car, with that much power and a 6MT, the MazdaSpeed 6 is going to fly down the track...

-Chike

[Royal Tiger]

When I read a review of the MS6 it stated the STi and Evo were not seen as compitor's by Mazda itself. It sees the Legacy GT and Acura TL as it's targets. I think Subaru needs at least 30 or more hp out of the Legacy to really heat things up. They can make it an option, not quite a STi Legacy, but some form of option. Also I see the G35x as a direct compitor of the MS6. Mid size, upper end luxury, AWD, and over 250hp. Anyone have G35x 0-60 times laying around. As I said before, with all the options I listed above, I'd still pick the Infinity.

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by JusticeSVX
Ford also volunairly reduced the emissions of all their SUVs, forcing GM to follow suite. Ditto on many safety regulations concerning SUVs. Ford is raising the bar, GM is whining and doing as little work as possible.

Good call. When GM redesigned their Vortec truck motors in 2000, all of them were designed so that they would meet fuel efficiency standards through 2007. On top of that, they are the only bi-fuel truck motors in production today. All these motors are being replaced by new units when the 2006 models come out, and those engines will be more than able to meet the new standards whether they become law or not. GM has nothing to whine about seeing as they are well ahead of the current and upcoming requirements.

[SubaSteevo]

Originally posted by JusticeSVX
Ford also volunairly reduced the emissions of all their SUVs, forcing GM to follow suite. Ditto on many safety regulations concerning SUVs. Ford is raising the bar, GM is whining and doing as little work as possible.

They were designed to meet the "fuel efficiency standards"? Standards eh? I guess thats why the Hummer's EPA window sticker (the sticker that on any other vehicle would state the estimated mpg) instead says "Data not available." I guess single digit numbers don't look very appealling on a window sticker Besides, justice was talking about how Ford voluntarily reduced emissions (whether this is true or not, I don't know), not how they increased fuel efficiency.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming, "Immaturity and the Internet"...

[Chiketkd]

Originally posted by PA_SVX
When I read a review of the MS6 it stated the STi and Evo were not seen as compitor's by Mazda itself. It sees the Legacy GT and Acura TL as it's targets. I think Subaru needs at least 30 or more hp out of the Legacy to really heat things up. They can make it an option, not quite a STi Legacy, but some form of option. Also I see the G35x as a direct compitor of the MS6. Mid size, upper end luxury, AWD, and over 250hp. Anyone have G35x 0-60 times laying around. As I said before, with all the options I listed above, I'd still pick the Infinity.

Very true. The Evo and STI are in another class. In the many reviews I've read of the MS6, the editors have mentioned that Mazda never wanted to use a hood scoop to stay clear of any 'boy-racer' looks - even though the MS6 uses a top-of-engine mounted intercooler. Instead, they raised the hood a couple inches and devised a mechanism that collects air at the five-point grill and channels it onto the intercooler.

The Legacy 2.5GT is definitely the natural competitor of the MS6, and besides the Acura TL, Mazda also has it's eyes set on the BMW 330xi. In the last decade, Mazda has been getting the name of the 'Japanese BMW' due to their emphasis on build quality, fit-n-finish, performance/handling, etc. in each model they build...

A Legacy STI would definitely be sweet! Subaru upped Mitsu when it released the 300hp STI over the 271hp Evo, and it'll be interesting to see what happens in their head-to-head battle with Mazda...

-Chike

P.S. I've seen only one test of the G35x sedan and if memory serves me correctly, it ran to 60mph in around 6.5 seconds and did the 1/4 mile in ~14.8 seconds. However, that was a test of the 260hp sedan.