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#106
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Having had OT's select monitor in both of my SVXi many months back, I was able to view both of my car's timing. While my stage 3 was pulling 10* of timing whenever i got on the throttle My bone stock SVX was pulling timing in high load situations. Most I ever saw was 8* of retard. There aren't any figures to present except to say that when you drive around monitoring "rtrd" and "adv" you clearly see that on a healthy SVX the factory ECU doesn't retard the ignition advance. It does the opposite. It adds ignition advance. "rtrd" is just the label for a memory location in the ecu which holds the immediate value from the translation of the knock sensor signal. A value of 8 does not mean 8 degrees of retard. It means 8 degrees of advance. A value of -8 means 8 degrees of retard. The factory primary ignition map is extremely conservative under high load to say the least; the ecu uses the knock sensors to seek out knock and add in additional advance up to the threshold of theoretical maximum advantage. It's good to get actual figures rather than conjecture. Tom, would you not consider it normal for the timing map to retard the timing in high load situations, given that it is a high compression engine pulling a heavy car at low revs? With the auto box being programmed to prefer high gears and run the car between 1500 and 2000 rpm all the time, this I remember as being the range where my old 2.2 litre Matra used to pink badly under load in top. As I see it the SVX is constrained by the TCU to constantly pull within a range that leaves it open to detonation, even naturally aspirated. Valid figures are void of semantics. Currently confusion is the order of the day. The existence of a figure representing retard or advance requires a baseline figure. It is now suggested that the base line is zero in respect of the figures presented. Does this align with the piston at top dead centre. If not what is the basis of zero? Please, can the term “Pulling” be avoided in the interests clarity and accuracy.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
#107
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PS http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...&postcount=611 |
#108
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This statement is 100% correct. The SSM RTD function will only show anything but 0 when the knock sensors pick something up. I am saying that the problem is, even on healthy stock SVXi it is not uncommon to see that the ECU does retard timing from the advance due to knock detection. I am sure there are cars that this will never happen on, but there are indeed, very healthy EG33's that this apparent in. That being said, I agree that a healthy SVX shouldn't do this, to coincide many infact do. The problem being that the ECU will pick up what more than likely is not knock and reduce the advance accordingly. To my limited knowledge of the inner workings of the ECU, I do not see the sensitivity being able to be adjusted w/o comprimising the RTD function of the ECU all together. Tom |
#109
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No, as I was sharing that value is an input not a result. Just like the mass air sensor signal is translated into a "load" value used in the logic to control fuel and timing the knock sensor signal is translated into a "rtrd" value used in logic to control the timing. 0 corresponds to a sensor reading which will not result in a number of routines checking to see if they should modify ignition timing. A negative number indicates a sensor reading which may result in a number of routines reducing ignition advance. A positive number indicates a sensor reading which may result in a number of routines increasing ignition advance.
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#110
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On a NA engine, will lowering the stock compression ratio via pistons increase potential advance and make more net power than factory ratio and potential retard?
Will lower gearing decrease engine load and possibly allow more ignition advance; thus the performance advantage of low gears is twofold, one, faster through the rev range, two, more timing resulting in more whp? Quote:
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#111
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It is now stated, --- "A negative number indicates a sensor reading which may result in a number of routines reducing ignition advance. A positive number indicates a sensor reading which may result in a number of routines increasing ignition advance." Words are failing someone. I now must assume that no one can quote figures illustrating the actual ignition timing in respect of an SVX, as original or modified.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
#112
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Now, that is not very fair. I understand (or perhaps, misunderstood?) the intent of your post in correcting the wording used. To then go forward and say that "no one can quote figures illustrating the actual ignition timing" is a foolish assumption. It was one mistake, which you are now applying across the board. That's silly, don't you agree?
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#113
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Section 2 page 95 of the manual talks about how the "Select monitor" works.
Mode F07 is Ignition timing (ADVS) says the range is 12 deg to 28 deg Mode F21 - Knock sensor signal (RTRD says range -10 to +10 deg. Don't know if this helps but thats what the book says. I may borrow the unit here and get some numbers on my cars. Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#114
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#115
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Yes, what I said was correct. Trevor is just once again making the false assumption that the failure to understand is someone else's and not his. He's got his head stuck thinking like the ignition advance logic is 10 lines of code rather than 500. Perhaps he should be introduced to the flowchart in Subaru's patent application.
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#116
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Trevor,
Tell me about your SVX. What kind of SVX do you have? Have you found being a member of the forums helpful in maintaining or modifying your SVX? Quote:
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#117
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If you look at his list of "Bolt-ons" you will see things like Autronic stand-alone, custom headers, individual coils [6 of ] and Sti injectors [6 of ]. Plus the ability to tune it. This add-on or bolt-on extra power is neither free nor is it cheap to achieve. Quote:
The key point here is whether Tom is correct when he says that the timing map "unnecessarily" pulls or retards timing under load. Maybe somebody will have to burn holes in a few pistons until we find out just how conservative the Fuji engineers were with the timing maps. Joe
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Black Betty [Bam a Lam!] '93 UK spec, still languishing Betty Jersey Girl Silver '92 UK [Channel Isles] 40K Jersey Girl @ Mersea Candy Purple Honda Blackbird Plum Dangerous White X2 RVR Mitsubishi 1800GDI. Vantastic 40,000 miles Jersey Girl |
#118
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still waiting on those graphs
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-Nate '92 LS-L Pearlie |
#119
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Or if someone had some thermocouples, you could hook up and do it without burning pistons. Alas, I don't have the means to do this...
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'92 SVX LS Pearl White - 6mt |
#120
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What is not fair in seeking out basic facts relative to a subject under discussion? I was not intent on correcting the wording used. I queried figures clearly indicating measurements in degrees. However by intent I softened what could be interpreted as criticism, by suggesting that only the wording might be in error. The reply now posted has confirmed my original doubts in respect of validity.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
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