STi brakes, the brute force way! - Page 3

sicksubie · #31 03-31-2010, 12:46 PM

Just kicking myself now for not yanking the spindles and hubs when I parted out the 2007 STi that was the donor for my 6spd swap... Could have taken them for a song...

sperry · #32 03-31-2010, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnybeas

Wow. I'm pleasantly surprised. This looks really nice. You answered all my other questions, I'm currently running American Racing Casino's in a 17 so based on my understanding from your answer I think I'll be fine.

My next question is, based on what you said the difference between the STi axles and the SVX axles does the same apply between STi and WRX?? I didn't have to use WRX axles with my 5spd conversion I just took the little splines out of the end of the axle and plugged into the ones on the transaxle. Will I need STi axles for this mod? or will mine suffice?

Also if you were to offer the modified knuckle how much would you charge a member for a kit or something???

The issue we're trying to address with the STi axles is the location of the ABS tone wheel. You need a tone wheel on the end of the axle. The SVX uses a tone wheel on the back of the hub.

Now I'm not totally sure about the WRX axles, but I believe they're the same as the '04 STi axles which have the tone wheel, but they're offset by a bit compared to the '05+ STi axles. When I did the hub converson on my WRX, I had '04 STi axles and had to get an offset ring pressed on the axles to move the ABS tone wheel further out for it to match the location of the sensor in the '05+ STi knuckles. So if you're thinking about using WRX axles that will end up needing a tone wheel offset collar, you might as well just try to machine a collar adapter that goes directly on the SVX axles and not have to switch axles at all.

As far as kitting this swap up and selling it. I don't think I'm interested. I'm happy to pass along all the measurements, diagrams, photos, how-to info to everyone for free so they can do this themselves as well, but I just don't think I have the time, money, or expertise to put this together for sale as a kit.

Plus, I'm not a professional mechanical or materials engineer. I'm just a software engineer that does this stuff as a hobby. So I don't really have the background to be able to say this setup I'm doing is safe for extended use on an automobile that's going to see all sorts of road conditions, wear, water, salt, etc. I'm not really willing to take the responsibility of manufacturing and selling something that could kill someone if the LCA fails. I've had it happen on track, it's an exciting event, but not in a good way...

However, I'm friends with a guy that is an actual engineer that sells a bunch of hard-to-find and custom Subaru bits (shamless plug: http://www.kstech.biz/). I'll talk to him about offering this as a kit, since he's already setup for that sort of thing, but I can't guarantee anything. Even he may not want to take on suspension/brake parts.

sperry · #33 03-31-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sicksubie

Just kicking myself now for not yanking the spindles and hubs when I parted out the 2007 STi that was the donor for my 6spd swap... Could have taken them for a song...

Yeah, this swap would be a lot easier with a donor STi. You'd have the brakes, spindles, axles, transmission and even the suspension. Really, the only new problem to solve (since folks here have already figured out the tranny swap) would be getting the Sti suspension to mount up. Then again, I wouldn't bother with STi take-off struts. The rears tend to be clunky piles unless you send them out for an aftermarket rebuild to re-bush them properly.

Eventually, I'd like to do a 6MT and some coilovers on my SVX. But it's really hard to justify the cost, especially when I've got a fresh 4.44 4EAT in there and a well running motor. I'd hate to drop $5000 on a swap and end up with a car that stalls because of the light flywheel, has worse snow traction because the spiider DCCD controller isn't as smart as the 4EAT, and is a PITA to drive in stop and go traffic compared to the auto. A 6MT would make the car like 1000 times more fun, but way less of a good daily driver... I think I need to find a legacy wagon or something before doing the tranny swap.

sicksubie · #34 03-31-2010, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Eventually, I'd like to do a 6MT and some coilovers on my SVX. But it's really hard to justify the cost, especially when I've got a fresh 4.44 4EAT in there and a well running motor. I'd hate to drop $5000 on a swap and end up with a car that stalls because of the light flywheel, has worse snow traction because the spiider DCCD controller isn't as smart as the 4EAT, and is a PITA to drive in stop and go traffic compared to the auto. A 6MT would make the car like 1000 times more fun, but way less of a good daily driver... I think I need to find a legacy wagon or something before doing the tranny swap.

I made about $800 bucks off of my swap as I took the entire interior, brakes, wheels, tires, driveline, and some other miscellaneous parts for the grand total of.... $4100. I sold everything I did not need for the swap for a total of $4900...

NeedForSpeed · #35 03-31-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sicksubie

I made about $800 bucks off of my swap as I took the entire interior, brakes, wheels, tires, driveline, and some other miscellaneous parts for the grand total of.... $4100. I sold everything I did not need for the swap for a total of $4900...

In dollars, yes, in fun, absolutely, but you contributed a ton of time to realize your dream. It's great to make something for the time, and to get a return for helping those that got the parts you didn't need

sperry · #36 03-31-2010, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sicksubie

I made about $800 bucks off of my swap as I took the entire interior, brakes, wheels, tires, driveline, and some other miscellaneous parts for the grand total of.... $4100. I sold everything I did not need for the swap for a total of $4900...

Well, we can't all be that lucky, can we!

When I did my 6MT swap into my WRX, for around $4000 I got the tranny, axles, driveshaft, rear diff, and the DCCD controller/sensors (that I didn't end up using because I didn't want to try splicing it into the ABS controller). On top of that, I ended up spending like $2000 to swap the rear knuckles, hubs and backing plates to the STi stuff to work with the R180 rear-end, plus getting 22b 2-pot rear brakes and rotors as well.

But I did my swap back in 2005... it was a lot harder to find donor parts.

sperry · #37 03-31-2010, 06:51 PM

Just some more pictures:

Here's the slotted hole on the strut flange.

Here's the offset ring to convert '04 STi axles to '05 Sti axles. It was part of the kit I bought when I did the hub conversion on my WRX. I'll be using these axles on the SVX and the newer axles I'm getting from PDX on my race car.

sicksubie · #38 03-31-2010, 07:51 PM

I am currently using front SVX axles mated to the SVX hubs. I had to swap the axle seals on the front diff of the 6 spd to mate with the SVX axles. Now I will swap them back and look through my garage to find the STi front axles.

sperry · #39 04-01-2010, 12:18 AM

Axles are in!

I was hoping to be able to use the STi axles totally unmolested, but the dust guard ring on the CV doesn't clear the SVX sundial. So I had to get the torch out, heat up the ring and remove it from the axles.

The sundials themselves had to come out in order to swap the seals to the STi seals. It's a little hard to see, but here's the new seal installed in the driver's side sundial.

Then it was just a matter of slapping the new axles into the tranny, and we're one step closer to done!

sperry · #40 04-03-2010, 01:10 AM

Well, a bunch of parts showed up on Friday. I got my Ichiba 15mm spacers in the mail as well as 6 sets of ARP extended lug bolts. So after work today, I spent some time pressing out lugs and installing new ones.

4 of the ARP lug sets are for the race car. I've been meaning to get some extended lugs for a long time, but never got around to it until now. So while I had the front knuckles off the race car for the SVX project, I figured it's a good time to swap them.

I also grabbed two extra sets in case the extended lugs that came with the spacers sucked. And I'm glad I did because the a few of the lugs in the spacer kit were kinda suspect, plus there were a little shorter than they should be IMO.

Here's one of each of the lugs installed in the hub...

And with the brake rotor, spacer, and wheel test fitted...

You can see there's not a lot of threads exposed on the shorter Ichiba lug. It's probably enough, but since I've got the ARP bolts already, I decided to use them. The best news is that with the spacer my RPF1's appear to clear the StopTechs, so I'll be able to keep the wheels I love so much on the car as long as there aren't fender clearance issues. Plus with the spacer, my existing "tuner" lug nuts are deep enough not to bottom out on the ARP studs. So I think I'm good to go for mounting my wheels.

For reference, I used a hydraulic shop press to remove the original lug bolts from the hub (but a hammer will work just as well, it's just a lot of hard work). Then I used a stack of washers and an open-ended lug with my air wrench to install the new bolts:

The only thing I'm waiting on is my ball-joint taper reamer. I ordered one from Jegs but it was back ordered, so it may be a while before it's in. I need it to fabricate the ball-joint adapter, which is now one of the last remaining things to do to get this job wrapped up.

The other issue is the ABS sensor adapter. The OD of the sensor is luckily .75 inches, so I should have some decent luck getting a piece of pipe w/ that ID. Then I should be able to cut myself a stand-off sleeve to allow me to reuse the stock SVX ABS sensor in the hole on the STi knuckle to read the tone wheel on the STi axle.

I also need to pick up some M10x1.25 45mm bolts for the STi ball joint retainers. The SVX bolts are too long and won't tighten down all the way in the STi knuckles. So that's one more minor issue to be solved.

Finally, since I leaked a bunch of gear oil out of the differential when I pulled the stub axles and sundials, I have to remember to top that off... so I'm posting this as a reminder to myself. The last thing I want to do is smoke the differential for lack of a few bucks worth of gear oil.

Tonight I also put my WRX back together, since I had the knucles off the car in order to use them for measurements, as well as to steal the axles to go in the SVX. My new-to-me axles from PDX came in and went on the car earlier, so tonight I swapped the lug bolts and put everything back together. It's nice to have only one car in pieces in the garage.

Anyway, more tommorrow. I hope to be able to toss together some wood prototype ball-joint adapters to measure camber changes from stock, as well as to check basic wheel/tire clearance. I won't really know if the adapter is just right until I get the car on an alignment rack... but I can hopefully get it close in my garage first.

sicksubie · #41 04-03-2010, 08:34 AM

I am not running ABS so that should be one thing I will not have to worry about...

sperry · #42 04-04-2010, 08:28 PM

Well, this weekend I got some time to build some wood mock-up adapters. I'm glad I went with wood, since I ended up making 3 of them, and there's probably one more I should do just to be sure, but I think I've got the angles worked out.

Test adapter #3:

The first one was based on the original design in this thread, and as I guessed it results in way too much negative camber. Plus, and this is something I didn't even think might be an issue, the swaybar ends up contacting the axle.

The second revision shortened up the effective length of the control arm, but I over compensated, so while the swaybar/axle issue was cleared up, I ended up with too little clearance for the ball joint, and the steering angle was so toe'd out that I don't think the tie-rod end would have enough adjustability to dial it out.

The third revision (picture above) is pretty close. The ball-joint clearance is good, the steering angle is toe'd out a little bit more than I want but it's close. The biggest concern is that there's only a few mm of clearance between the swaybar and axle:

(sorry, too dark to auto focus)

So, I think I'm going to have to shorten up the swaybar end-link a touch. I want a little more clearance, plus in my final revision of the ball-joint adapter, I'm going to push out the BJ another 4mm to try to make sure there are no bump-steer issues, so I'll really need a little more clearance. I think I can do it the ghetto way and just put a 5 deg bend (maybe less even) into the midpoint of the end-link. I don't think that's enough to drastically reduce the stiffness of the link, and should give me a cm or more clearance to the axle.

So, with all that in mind... here's the design I think I should be able to use for the adapter:

I was able to go with a much simpler wedge design, and I think I only need the ball-joint taper on the upper piece of steel. I will likely cut the plates, then weld the upper plate to the lower before drilling all the holes. It shouldn't need more than just some tack welds to prevent them from slipping. The ball-joint itself should lock the two pieces together under a clamping force.

Like I said, I'll do one more wood mock-up before going at the metal. I'm expecting to need to do the metal once at least twice though, since there's always something... but hopefully it won't be too far off the above design.

Now, if only that back-ordered taper reamer would get shipped... I'd be done by now!

sicksubie · #43 04-04-2010, 09:21 PM

Looks good... Make two sets please?

Pegdrgr · #44 04-05-2010, 10:52 PM

Great progress Sperry!

If there is anything else I can do let me know. If I had a reamer I would send it out to you!

Jarrad

sperry · #45 04-06-2010, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pegdrgr

Great progress Sperry!

If there is anything else I can do let me know. If I had a reamer I would send it out to you!

Jarrad

Thanks again man!

That reamer is going to be the big delay on this deal. It seems like there's only one manufacturer out there, so everyone is waiting on getting them in stock. My order was placed w/ Jegs. Summit is the other reputible place that carries them. Both have like 15+ day backorder estimates that aren't going down as the days go by, so who knows if I'll ever get one of these things.

I may have to start calling industrial tool suppliers and see what I can get through them.