BAD NEWS: discussion.

Originally posted by Seraph



Quinn,

You have some good points and some logistical errors as well. I fully agree with you on the all three issues. However, there are some users on the forums we are experts in secureing the server as well as maintaining the server. So far, as far as I know, there are only 3 people who have some form of access to the back end and we are listening to one of them to say "Hey we've been hacked again."

What I am going with that is for people who can help, it's fusturating just to hear "we are hacked again" without being able to help. And for common people, it scares the living crap out of them. To the admin team: If you need help, we can help.

The second thing is it is true you might benifit from getting some money from us by transfering our webhosts to you guys. However, most people who run websites are at the level of geocity sites (no offense) and they are happy with the free sites. Then we have people like me -- who have our own domain and such. I have never seen a webhost that supply a shell account to the system yet. If I see one, I'll signup so that I can monitor my own space. I hate to give up my space in the hand of someone else. Put it this way, if my site is down, I can only blame myself.

And finally out of the 2000+ registered users, only around 100-200 are active. So it would be hard to achive that goal. Just speaking some realism here.

Again, this was just one option. Knowing what I know about usage vs. moving the box, I was recommending ways to keep it here but justify the cost. Honestly, I don't care either way as we were providing the bandwidth services for free. At one time it may have been paid for, but in the past 6 months, I don't know that it has been paid for. The box streams 450-500k average because of how the traffic shaper set. Without the traffic shaper it streams 750k with bursts at times 1.1mbs. Again this is pure backbone bandwidth and not watered down DSL/Cable modem type bandwidth.

Quinn

[Noir]

Originally posted by Quinn Whipple


Again, this was just one option. Knowing what I know about usage vs. moving the box, I was recommending ways to keep it here but justify the cost. Honestly, I don't care either way as we were providing the bandwidth services for free. At one time it may have been paid for, but in the past 6 months, I don't know that it has been paid for. The box streams 450-500k average because of how the traffic shaper set. Without the traffic shaper it streams 750k with bursts at times 1.1mbs. Again this is pure backbone bandwidth and not watered down DSL/Cable modem type bandwidth.

Quinn

Wow, if that's true, thank you very much for the great service! I don't argue when something is free

Ok this is what I want to know:

how many megabytes does subaru-svx.net transfer in a month?

Size of the pipe and other stuff dosn't matter, because my suggestion to Pockets has been to move this site to a hosting company.

oh, hi guys

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally posted by Quinn Whipple


Again, this was just one option. Knowing what I know about usage vs. moving the box, I was recommending ways to keep it here but justify the cost. Honestly, I don't care either way as we were providing the bandwidth services for free. At one time it may have been paid for, but in the past 6 months, I don't know that it has been paid for. The box streams 450-500k average because of how the traffic shaper set. Without the traffic shaper it streams 750k with bursts at times 1.1mbs. Again this is pure backbone bandwidth and not watered down DSL/Cable modem type bandwidth.

Quinn

Quinn, I'm trying to better understand your discription of how much traffic the site generates. I asked you for stats, and you sent me two nice graphs, but since they don't jive with your explanation here, I figure I'm not reading something right.

I placed the two graphs in my locker on this site.

I have no idea what the first graph represents. It's transfer rates over time, but for what? The server the site is hosted on?

The second graph seems to represent specifically the traffic into and out of the site. But even the workday average rates aren't similar to the rates you quote above. If you add our max in and out together, assuming that they happened at the same time (entirely conceivable), then you get close to 450kbps total, but not 450-500.

I'm just trying to understand everything a little more clearly.

Originally posted by Mr. Pockets


Quinn, I'm trying to better understand your discription of how much traffic the site generates. I asked you for stats, and you sent me two nice graphs, but since they don't jive with your explanation here, I figure I'm not reading something right.

I placed the two graphs in my locker on this site.

I have no idea what the first graph represents. It's transfer rates over time, but for what? The server the site is hosted on?

The second graph seems to represent specifically the traffic into and out of the site. But even the workday average rates aren't similar to the rates you quote above. If you add our max in and out together, assuming that they happened at the same time (entirely conceivable), then you get close to 450kbps total, but not 450-500.

I'm just trying to understand everything a little more clearly.

Response to multiple people:

MR. Pockets: like I mentioned when I sent the graph, that is a snapshot of the previous few hours and that the trafic load was lighter than we normaly see. I have no intention or reason to give you any B.S. on the numbers. Check you inbox I have sent you a updated graph. The longer peirod graph was to show the DoS attach time frame

Reply to other guy(dont remember your name): You mentioned that you wanted to take it to a hosting facility. Well, That is what I offered because if it to be connected to my network it will require that the operating system be managed by one of my full time employees to ensure the linux patch level is secure. QWK.net is a hosting company we do dedicated and shared hosting. This is a dedicated box and not a shared box. I have no idea how much storage is being used. You would have to defer that question to Chris. Shared bandwidth is metered in physical packet transfer. Dedicated bandwidth is metered in Flow. So when you ask for how much transfer, you are asking for something that I can not provide because that is not how we meter dedicated boxes. We use the 95% rule. This means that we chop off the top 5% of the transfer samples and then we calculate the flow rate based on the remaining 95%. Last time I looked (earlier today) you guy's were at around a 80gig flow rate in the past 24hrs. We are comming up on the weekend which is when your site peaks so if you want the stats I will post them again. A typical dedicated box hosted with us with a 100gig of flow(base on the 95% rule) is normaly is charged $375.00

Ultimatly it doesn't matter as we have decided that this box will have to be moved. I posted previous about one possible solution. It turns out that the solution was not practical for you guys. I am open for recomendations, but I can't keep hosting this for *FREE*. I have given Chris til Monday to down the box and move it to Jim's circuit which it is my understanding that it is up and running. If that doesn't meet the needs of this forum, then let's start the dialog back up and come up with a way to justify the expense of the bandwidth.


Quinn

[Seraph]

Thanks Quinn for some info on the traffic.

I can't say for others but I'll try to talk to a couple of people and see what we can do.

[ensteele]

I also thank you for your work on this. There are comments and questions from members who have not been here very long. Because of that, they may not know the history of this site and what a service this site has received in the past. We are working on resolve this problem - both yours and ours. Thank you.

Originally posted by Mr. Pockets


Quinn, I'm trying to better understand your discription of how much traffic the site generates. I asked you for stats, and you sent me two nice graphs, but since they don't jive with your explanation here, I figure I'm not reading something right.

I placed the two graphs in my locker on this site.

I have no idea what the first graph represents. It's transfer rates over time, but for what? The server the site is hosted on?

The second graph seems to represent specifically the traffic into and out of the site. But even the workday average rates aren't similar to the rates you quote above. If you add our max in and out together, assuming that they happened at the same time (entirely conceivable), then you get close to 450kbps total, but not 450-500.

I'm just trying to understand everything a little more clearly.

I found some additional stats based on the "transfer" method. Since last sunday afternoon (after the DOS attack) there has been just shy of 40gigbyte transfer in less than one week. this is based on the physical packets comming in and out of the box. So if we were meetering it in the "shared" way then you would be looking at a roughtly 200gigbyte transfer bill over the span of 1 month.

Quinn

[Uncamitzi]

Originally posted by Quinn Whipple


I found some additional stats based on the "transfer" method. Since last sunday afternoon (after the DOS attack) there has been just shy of 40gigbyte transfer in less than one week. this is based on the physical packets comming in and out of the box. So if we were meetering it in the "shared" way then you would be looking at a roughtly 200gigbyte transfer bill over the span of 1 month.

Quinn

If someone can put this into a dollar figure it might help. Unless that discussion is going on somewhere else. What does it cost to host a 200 gig site for a year... or a month?

[Seraph]

Originally posted by Uncamitzi


If someone can put this into a dollar figure it might help. Unless that discussion is going on somewhere else. What does it cost to host a 200 gig site for a year... or a month?

That's something we are trying to figure out. We have some rought ideas but I think the board is trying to figure out a couple of things.

This is what others are charging for the bandwidth similar to what you consume.

xhost V-Host silver, 500mb hdd and 200gb transfer = $249.
Bright HOsting, 1.5gb hdd and 160gb transfer = $150.
Accelerated Web Tech, 5gb and 155gb transfer = $200.
xhost V-host silver 150, 500mb and 150gb transfer = $199.
cyberfronteer, 5gb hdd and 300gb transfer = $199.

These are per month charges and these are all VDS or straight shared services.

Quinn
QWK.net