Ice's fully-baked turbo build

[icingdeath88]

Well, I guess I'm long overdue for an update on this.

I've been getting funds for the machine work together, and I think I'm about there. I'll need to get some more together when it's time to pay someone to build the pipework.

After getting some input from people, I have decided to forgo any headwork for the time-being. Maybe down the road, but not at this stage.

The engine is almost torn down to the shortblock, which is how it will be handed to the machine shop sometime in the next couple of weeks probably.

Need to decide between two turbos and one turbo. I have a few ideas for how to do both. (I'll give you a hint, the battery's already in the trunk).

[smc]

Hows the project coming?

[icingdeath88]

Slooooooowly. Still been buying parts. I keep finding new things to add to it.

We are also trying to move to a real house, with real garage space. It's moving pretty quickly, so I'm just going to wait until then before I start taking any cars apart.

Here's an update I guess:

-Ordered and received a bunch of gaskets and whatnot from subaru for when it comes time to put the motor back together.
-Ordered and received ARP head studs.
-Ordered ARP rod bolts, should be here soon.

Spoke with a couple of shops around here about plumbing the turbo piping. None seemed super interested.

I also should get a bigger fuel pump, but I haven't shopped for one yet.
Also need to send the 370cc injectors to deatschwerks (sp?) for flow-testing.
I have, thanks to LAN, figured out what bearings I should get, now I just need to find a source for them and get them ordered.

I am also very interested in getting a megasquirt working for the SVX. I think that would go a long way for these cars in the future, and it would also help my project quite a bit. But I'm not sure what hardware to order just yet.

The main things I need to do are to find some free time so I can actually get stuff done, and to get the motor to the machine shop once I've got everything for it (just need bearings).

[Chuckls]

Originally Posted by icingdeath88

Slooooooowly. Still been buying parts. I keep finding new things to add to it.

We are also trying to move to a real house, with real garage space. It's moving pretty quickly, so I'm just going to wait until then before I start taking any cars apart.

Here's an update I guess:

-Ordered and received a bunch of gaskets and whatnot from subaru for when it comes time to put the motor back together.
-Ordered and received ARP head studs.
-Ordered ARP rod bolts, should be here soon.

Spoke with a couple of shops around here about plumbing the turbo piping. None seemed super interested.

I also should get a bigger fuel pump, but I haven't shopped for one yet.
Also need to send the 370cc injectors to deatschwerks (sp?) for flow-testing.
I have, thanks to LAN, figured out what bearings I should get, now I just need to find a source for them and get them ordered.

I am also very interested in getting a megasquirt working for the SVX. I think that would go a long way for these cars in the future, and it would also help my project quite a bit. But I'm not sure what hardware to order just yet.

The main things I need to do are to find some free time so I can actually get stuff done, and to get the motor to the machine shop once I've got everything for it (just need bearings).

Seeing this build makes me wish I was still in FL to help

[icingdeath88]

So here's where I'm at with my turbo project. Settle in, long read ahead.

I have deleted nearly everything from the engine bay, other than actual engine stuff. The A/C is all long gone. The wiper fluid reservoir has been removed and the rear wiper fluid pump now feeds the front sprayers. The charcoal canister has been gone for a long time. The battery is very happy in it's new home in the trunk, and I'll be trying to make it sit a bit lower back there. The ABS pump will be deleted when I get the chance. Later if I think that was a mistake, then I'll add it back, but in a different location that's more out of the way, and lower. Fuse box will probably end up in the fender well, where you can get to it by turning the wheel, and opening a panel cut into the wheel well liner. Coolant reservoir will be replaced with something a lot smaller.

I have some more stuff I want to delete/relocate/clean up in the interior of the car, such as the back seats, and I still want to get some lighter front seats. Want to delete anything under the dash that's not 100% necessary and lighten up the dash as well. I have gotten my hands on a carbon fiber hood that's in rough shape, that I'll be restoring and putting on as well. I've deleted a lot of stuff from the back of the car (trunk is pretty much stripped), and I'm refraining from doing more until I lighten up the front more, so as not to throw off the balance too badly.

The actual machine work has been put on hold somewhat due to moving out of my place/buying a new place but I am using that as an opportunity to get more parts together for it. I need to get some engine bearings, and some of the outlaw engineering phenolic spacers for the intake manifold, but I have everything else as far as I know. STi rods, 9:1 forged cp pistons, ARP head studs, ARP rod bolts, cometic headgaskets, and the cams that are in my current engine. After talking it over with people more knowledgeable than myself, I have decided not to do any headwork this time around (other than the cams I've already got), but maybe later on. Basically I'm going to let the turbo do all the work in that regard. (Although I was considering some supertech valves, but they are $$ and I think overkill for now.)

For now, I have some 370cc SR20 injectors I'll be using, a 300zx MAF, and the ecutune stage 2 ecu to work them, but I'll very likely be trying to make the current engine run on a megasquirt first, and then have the new engine run on that instead. I'm considering the ecutune stuff a backup plan in case the megasquirt turns out to be significantly more difficult than I'm currently anticipating. I have it about 90% figured out, and I've figured out about as much as possible without having one yet. It's like $600, so I'm waiting to get it until I can actually put it into use. I will almost definitely run LS coils with it, for a lot of reasons, and it will almost definitely be run as "wasted spark". Have a cool idea for where to mount the coils, but I'll keep that to myself for now.

Have a Deatschwerks 320 liter/hour Subaru fuel pump kit. Will probably also get a RRFPR, but don't know whether it'll be necessary yet. I think the flow of fuel at my HP goal will require more pressure with the 370cc injectors, but not a lot more. But I'll reassess that later on.

I'm probably going to put together the intake manifold before the machine work is done on the engine. Mainly because I've got it all figured out now and I want to do that before I forget it. I'm planning on keeping the IRIS working, which won't be very hard to do with the megasquirt either. I might try and make a bit bigger vacuum tank for it, since under boost it won't be able to build up vacuum. Have a big box of black silicone vacuum line in all the right diameters. All the EGR crap will be deleted, and all the charcoal canister stuff that hasn't already been will be deleted too. I might keep the solenoids plugged into the harness if I have to let the SVX ECU (current or stage 2) think they're working, but I'll probably move them somewhere more accessible to get rid of them later. Have some other interesting intake manifold ideas, but for now I'll keep them to myself.

I posted about it elsewhere, but I have added gauges/sensors for the oil pressure, oil temp, and coolant temp. Should be useful for me to get a baseline now for a mostly stock engine, so I know what "normal" is like when I have the other engine.

I'm undecided so far as to whether to do anything about cooling yet. The reported fix is to widen the outlet from the radiator and the inlet to the water pump (the thermostat housing basically) and get correspondingly bigger silicone tubing for it. I'm unsure whether I'll need to at the power level I'll be running at, and at the RPMs I'll be running at (6-6.5k only, again, letting the turbo do most of the work). Still thinking it over.

Another thing I've kinda figured out is that I'm pretty much decided on doing a single turbo rather than twin. Just seems like it makes more sense. The EG33 doesn't need the boost to come on too early, it has tons of low/midrange torque, and a properly sized turbo will come on early enough. I'm still not decided on what exact turbo will do the job the best though. One thing I've really not figured out is the specific oil/coolant plumbing to the turbo. But I'll figure that out long before the time comes for that.

Also when the engine's out of the engine bay I plan on clearing up a lot of the now-useless mounting points for stuff that's been removed. Probably paint the engine bay too. You know, make it look nice.

So, projects evolve, as they do, and as mine has done. I'll get there. Moving to a place with some actual garage space will help immensely, so a lot of stuff I'm just putting off doing until then.

If anyone has any constructive input, I'm all ears. The car is a pretty unique one, and has some weird mods, largely because I'm not afraid to do something if there's good enough reason to try it.

[bazza]

Looking forward to seeing you complete this.

With regards to the turbo, a Garrett GT35R or a TD06h-25G (Kando Dynamic on ebay) will make your 350 hp atw at low boost. The 35R will probably make that at around 5 psi with your cams, although with your cams it will want to rev to 7000 rpm at that boost so you're prolly going to have to deal with the cooling issue.

Will be interesting to see if you can get the IRIS valve working and seeing what the results are.

[icingdeath88]

Wouldn't I be better off with something closer to a GT30? A GT30 at like 9 PSI would get me to my power goals, and spool quicker too. And still have plenty room to grow, actually. I was thinking even something the next size smaller.

[bazza]

Originally Posted by icingdeath88

Wouldn't I be better off with something closer to a GT30? A GT30 at like 9 PSI would get me to my power goals, and spool quicker too. And still have plenty room to grow, actually. I was thinking even something the next size smaller.

I've had one on an EJ20 and EJ25 and they are quite a nice turbo for those engines. However for a 3.3L with cams, prolly a little small. However all depends on what you're after. To be honest though, even the GT35R is probably to small even for the 3.3L, no lag, almost 900Nm of torque, fun times.

There is a fellow who ran twin GT28's but upgraded to twin GT30 because the 28's were to small.

[jetboy]

If you change your mind on injectors, something here should fit.

http://www.rogerclarkmotorsport.co.u...?catsLevel=103

Other things here, too.

[icingdeath88]

Originally Posted by jetboy

If you change your mind on injectors, something here should fit.

http://www.rogerclarkmotorsport.co.u...?catsLevel=103

Other things here, too.

Thanks for the input. I'd like to use the smallest injectors I can get away with using. Too big, and you start to lose resolution when it comes to tuning. And gas mileage, but that's not a real concern. 550s would be the next size up, but those are pretty expensive, and usually when found cheaper are in sets of 4, not 6.

The top-feed ones might be technically better but I'd rather not have to mess with the fuel rails/lines unless I'm going to re-design it altogether = make it nice and symmetrical, with much larger AN lines.

So if I have to switch to bigger ones I will, but I'd rather start with the 370s because I already have like 8 of them.

I also need to look at what Tom did with the fueling on the shadowmachine, since I know he was using either 550s or 740s (or maybe 550s initially, then 740s later).

[bazza]

Originally Posted by icingdeath88

Thanks for the input. I'd like to use the smallest injectors I can get away with using. Too big, and you start to lose resolution when it comes to tuning. And gas mileage, but that's not a real concern. 550s would be the next size up, but those are pretty expensive, and usually when found cheaper are in sets of 4, not 6.

The top-feed ones might be technically better but I'd rather not have to mess with the fuel rails/lines unless I'm going to re-design it altogether = make it nice and symmetrical, with much larger AN lines.

So if I have to switch to bigger ones I will, but I'd rather start with the 370s because I already have like 8 of them.

I also need to look at what Tom did with the fueling on the shadowmachine, since I know he was using either 550s or 740s (or maybe 550s initially, then 740s later).

That's not entirely correct. I'm not sure where that information originated from but it's all over the place on the net.. forum myth #7664 - maybe back in the days of massive carby jets or the early days of tuning with aftermarket ECU's back in the 90s - however for the last 5+ years most decent ECU's can handle big injectors not a problem. The issue is the ecu resolution and by that I mean can it control injectors down to X.XX milliseconds. If the megasquirt can control down to that level which it probably can then you'll be fine with big injectors - just don't buy a rubbish brand of injector of course.

I've currently got Nismo ~750cc's injectors in mine with the stock rails and stock regulator. I didn't notice any change whatsoever going from the stock injectors to the big Nismo's. I'm also still using the stock regulator. The only upgrade is a couple of tee pieces to create a "semi parallel" fuel rail setup which I've used in various other setups for years and has proven itself to work quite nicely. For interest sake the Nismo's were sold as Nissan Skyline R33 GTST injectors. Had to re-wire the injector plugs of course. But all in all this has supported 550 hp absolutely fine, I wouldn't think of going to top feed... to much cost involved and the only benefit is being able to support > 600 hp... could still cheat at that point and just use a 5th injector like the old STI RA's.

[oab_au]

I think what Ice means is that with large injectors, when it is at Idle and low engine speed they to dribble instead of spraying. Big hole, short injection time. Makes a case for additional injectors.

Harvey.

[icingdeath88]

Originally Posted by bazza

That's not entirely correct. I'm not sure where that information originated from but it's all over the place on the net.. forum myth #7664 - maybe back in the days of massive carby jets or the early days of tuning with aftermarket ECU's back in the 90s - however for the last 5+ years most decent ECU's can handle big injectors not a problem. The issue is the ecu resolution and by that I mean can it control injectors down to X.XX milliseconds. If the megasquirt can control down to that level which it probably can then you'll be fine with big injectors - just don't buy a rubbish brand of injector of course.

Good points. The resolution issue I brought up not because of the "forum myth", but rather because Matt actually commented that he lost resolution when he went to the 550s from the 370s. He was on a Megasuirt 2, and I'll be using an MS3 extra, so that may actually help. Or he may have just not spent as much time as it would have taken to get them just right, just because he wouldn't have needed the 550s at his power levels. But that doesn't sound like him.

But I try and stick with actual empirical data rather than theory, hearsay, etc. I am a scientist after all...

Originally Posted by bazza

I've currently got Nismo ~750cc's injectors in mine with the stock rails and stock regulator. I didn't notice any change whatsoever going from the stock injectors to the big Nismo's. I'm also still using the stock regulator. The only upgrade is a couple of tee pieces to create a "semi parallel" fuel rail setup which I've used in various other setups for years and has proven itself to work quite nicely. For interest sake the Nismo's were sold as Nissan Skyline R33 GTST injectors. Had to re-wire the injector plugs of course. But all in all this has supported 550 hp absolutely fine, I wouldn't think of going to top feed... to much cost involved and the only benefit is being able to support > 600 hp... could still cheat at that point and just use a 5th injector like the old STI RA's.

I'd love to see some pics of your "semi parallel" setup. What ECU are you running again? And what RPM is your idle set to?

[bazza]

Originally Posted by oab_au

I think what Ice means is that with large injectors, when it is at Idle and low engine speed they to dribble instead of spraying. Big hole, short injection time. Makes a case for additional injectors.

Harvey.

As I was saying, this is the old school of thought from the 90s. It's certainly not reality (speaking from experience)... 02 STI+ for example have run 550cc injectors stock and they idle and run beautifully. People are now running 2000cc injectors with the stock ECU with good idle and fueling quality.

Originally Posted by icingdeath88

Good points. The resolution issue I brought up not because of the "forum myth", but rather because Matt actually commented that he lost resolution when he went to the 550s from the 370s. He was on a Megasuirt 2, and I'll be using an MS3 extra, so that may actually help. Or he may have just not spent as much time as it would have taken to get them just right, just because he wouldn't have needed the 550s at his power levels. But that doesn't sound like him.

But I try and stick with actual empirical data rather than theory, hearsay, etc. I am a scientist after all...

I'd love to see some pics of your "semi parallel" setup. What ECU are you running again? And what RPM is your idle set to?

I did visit Matt and have chat the other night and he seemed to think the Megasquirt wasn't quite right so I'm not sure if this includes fueling setup.

I'll see if I can find a pic or a diagram of the semi parallel setup. I previously also ran it on another EJ setup years ago which made close to 300 killawasps and ran for around 105,000 kms with a huge amount of track and drag work... so it certainly works nicely when pushed.

[neverLift]

I know you have yet to purchase bearings, but what was the brand that you mentioned LAN was a fan of? Are you planning on using these? If not, what are you planning on using and why? I ask as I have to make the same decision now as I am rebuilding a EG33.

cheers
-Evan