Turbo options for Built EG33

[SilverSpear]

Originally Posted by Crazy_pilot

Just a bit

There hasn't been a successfull twin turbo setup done on an EG33 in an SVX.

It is mainly the issue of space inside the engine bay...

[ZephTheChef]

Perfect! Lack of space under the hood is precisely what I'm used to (3000GT VR-4). I've got some exciting plans for this SVX (muhaha). I didn't mean to sound like an ass saying it didn't seem like there were many modders around on this platform, but like I said, I was only seeing one thread show up, lol.

That and the fact that I come primarily from a platform where 500-650awhp and 10-11 second ETs are pretty much the norm for a modded street car...I was a little surprised coming here and finding out we're looking at less than 300whp and 13.9 ETs as RECORDS...but I guess it's like comparing an F-body to a cavalier in that not very many people have tried to make these cars crazy fast. No disrespect, as I'm definitely going to be challenged by these cars. Until recently 3/Ss didn't have much of an aftermarket either, so I look forward to getting the SVXs up there in the next few years.

If there's room for two, you can bet I'll find it, and I'm not afraid to move/eliminate/mutilate anything that gets in my way. I'll leave it up to your imaginations for now what I've got in mind but I think you guys might see some fresh ideas from me (and a lot of them might make you sick to your stomach, lol).

[SilverSpear]

Originally Posted by ZephTheChef

Perfect! Lack of space under the hood is precisely what I'm used to (3000GT VR-4). I've got some exciting plans for this SVX (muhaha). I didn't mean to sound like an ass saying it didn't seem like there were many modders around on this platform, but like I said, I was only seeing one thread show up, lol.

That and the fact that I come primarily from a platform where 500-650awhp and 10-11 second ETs are pretty much the norm for a modded street car...I was a little surprised coming here and finding out we're looking at less than 300whp and 13.9 ETs as RECORDS...but I guess it's like comparing an F-body to a cavalier in that not very many people have tried to make these cars crazy fast. No disrespect, as I'm definitely going to be challenged by these cars. Until recently 3/Ss didn't have much of an aftermarket either, so I look forward to getting the SVXs up there in the next few years.

If there's room for two, you can bet I'll find it, and I'm not afraid to move/eliminate/mutilate anything that gets in my way. I'll leave it up to your imaginations for now what I've got in mind but I think you guys might see some fresh ideas from me (and a lot of them might make you sick to your stomach, lol).

If you are that much excited to go that route, and showing off your muscles , why don't you do that TT project while keeping the "anythings" that gets in your way. Meaning that you are allowed to move them but not REmove them .

Good luck anyways

[ZephTheChef]

Lol, we'll see about that. Either way, you guys will have lots of pictures coming. I probably won't get to this project until mid Jan. or so, but I'll be lurking around the boards until then.

[TomsSVX]

good to have some enthusiasm again. Been a little while. Yeah you will find parts extremely hard to come by and very expensive as they will probably be one offs. I was contemplating twins a while back but nowadays it makes too much sense to go with a single. Oh and I am not getting the turbo/turbos for free like I had. I originally planned twin gt25's off a 300zx.

Tom

[drivemusicnow]

First the 3si world does not have 11 second cars as the "norm" those are the hugely expensive cars that people put a ton of money into. True, there are a lot of them, versus none in the SVX world (at least at this point in time) but the difference is in number of cars. The US only saw 15000 SVXes versus very nearly 150,000 3si vehicles. 1/10th the cars, means 1/10th the number of enthusiasts willing to put their dollar down to try new things. Tom and LAN are probably the most notable members in this respect.

As far as the project at hand, I've been a little out of the loop recently as I'm trying to graduate. So I have some questions on the shortblocks. Did you modify the block at all? What C/R? Did you O-ring the heads/block?

I think you may find that you should plan things around your goal, and that the turbo is probably one of the last things you'll pick. Say you want to hit 500 whp, figure 600 crank hp (low number). I usually add my 20% or 30% safety factor in right here. So plan for ~750 crank horsepower with everything and it'll be within spec (ie fuel pump, injectors, lines, intercooler, etc)

As for the turbo itself, the GT4094R is an excellent choice. And not all that expensive either. A VERY reputable dealer offers it here: Link for 1550$ with various turbine housing options (a lot of info on the page as well.)

The GT4294R is an option as well, but I'd personally rather use more boost on a smaller turbo and just keep things cool with intercooler and water/meth injection. Plus the Garrett BB turbos LOVE high boost. They are extremely efficient even with high P/R. Talk to the FP guys. They have a lot of application knowledge and would most likely be able to give you some good advice once you've figured some of the rest of the details out.

[Boxersix]

I know I"m a new guy to this forum but I'll post my thing here based on my 20+ year experience working with and building Porsche's and various race cars of the like as well as building turbocharged setups for them. I also rebuild turbo here on my VSR machine

The 4094R is going to be VERY laggy on your 3.3L. If that's what you like then go for it as the turbo is very nice for a top end build. Don't forget the 4088R though. The 4094R is mainly used on single turbo LS1 street cars with 5.7L+ of displacement. A42xxR CHRA on anything less that 5.0L for street use is just going to be a lightswitch boost onset.....ON/OFF.

On the Porsche 930/965's, which are mainly 3.3L single turbo flat six motors, 99% of the community running these cars that are putting down 550-650WHP are running modified GT35R's(35/40R's) and even those are still very laggy...not seeing 1 bar of boost until about 4200rpm on a well tuned header setup to optimize reversion to the turbine. Stock k27 3.3 L see's .8 bar boost at 3200. There are two 4088R powered 965's that I know of an have been for a ride in. One a built 3.3L RWD and the other a built 3.5L with a C4 AWD drivetrain and both of those cars are dedicated track vehicles where the RPM range for the turbo is maintained via a close ratio box for track use. The boost onset of a turbo that large on a motor of suck little displacement, even for a BB CHRA of the GT series, is very twitchy for most consumers on the market. Even with AWD, the C4 model 3.5L with a 4088R was highly unstable for any low spped/throttle input and boith those cars did not see set limits of boost(about 1.6bar) until near 4800rpms.

That doesn't leave much room for the motor to swing out and be useful on the street, let alone what most can handle in a track environment. The GT35R or GTK 500/550 are going to be well suited for what most cars and their owners will want.


I'm not saying don't use the 40+ series. I'm just saying you're better off marketing this kit with a better suited turbo for 99% of the consumers market, and allow options for those to up size from there based on their use of the car. A car that get full boost 1500rpm before redline is NOT going to be fun to drive on the street

[TomsSVX]

if and when I make a kit. The stock motors will receive a gt35R while built motors like mine will use a gt4094

Tom

[Myxalplyx]

Would a T3/T04E turbo be ok to use on these cars? This is the turbo that Ludespeed used to use on their turbokits for the 2.5ltr engines.

[Boxersix]

Originally Posted by Myxalplyx

Would a T3/T04E turbo be ok to use on these cars? This is the turbo that Ludespeed used to use on their turbokits for the 2.5ltr engines.

T3/T40e is a broad range and doesn't include trim levels. Just about most T3 hybrids will be too small for a 3.3L for efficiency though....

[ZephTheChef]

Originally Posted by drivemusicnow

First the 3si world does not have 11 second cars as the "norm" those are the hugely expensive cars that people put a ton of money into. True, there are a lot of them, versus none in the SVX world (at least at this point in time) but the difference is in number of cars. The US only saw 15000 SVXes versus very nearly 150,000 3si vehicles. 1/10th the cars, means 1/10th the number of enthusiasts willing to put their dollar down to try new things. Tom and LAN are probably the most notable members in this respect.

OFF TOPIC:
The 3si world DOES have 10 and 11 second cars as the "norm", however only in the last year or two has there been some competition in the kits offered by shops (ie the kits anyone could easily install). I agree wholeheartedly on the numbers difference as far as there being more enthusiasts with 3/Ss because there are more 3/Ss and I even tried to get at that with my post.

When you say hugely expensive, I feel I have to correct you there. I bought a TT stealth as a project car, to install a budget version of the setup that's on my VR-4 and it is nearing completion. When all is said and done, I will have less than $7,000 in the car, purchase price of the car included. At that, it will be a RELIABLE 11 second car on pump gas at moderate boost, and a low 10 second car at its limits with race gas.

The only reason people spend tons of money to get their cars fast is that they are paying for hundreds of hours of R&D from some shop when they buy that bolt on kit...I firmly believe any car can be made very fast if you do things yourself and think outside the box. I intend to prove that with the SVX as well.

ON TOPIC:
Cyclopentane is your friend.

[SilverSpear]

Originally Posted by ZephTheChef

[B]
.... I intend to prove that with the SVX as well.

How??????????

[TomsSVX]

Originally Posted by ZephTheChef

OFF TOPIC:
The 3si world DOES have 10 and 11 second cars as the "norm", however only in the last year or two has there been some competition in the kits offered by shops (ie the kits anyone could easily install). I agree wholeheartedly on the numbers difference as far as there being more enthusiasts with 3/Ss because there are more 3/Ss and I even tried to get at that with my post.

When you say hugely expensive, I feel I have to correct you there. I bought a TT stealth as a project car, to install a budget version of the setup that's on my VR-4 and it is nearing completion. When all is said and done, I will have less than $7,000 in the car, purchase price of the car included. At that, it will be a RELIABLE 11 second car on pump gas at moderate boost, and a low 10 second car at its limits with race gas.

The only reason people spend tons of money to get their cars fast is that they are paying for hundreds of hours of R&D from some shop when they buy that bolt on kit...I firmly believe any car can be made very fast if you do things yourself and think outside the box. I intend to prove that with the SVX as well.

ON TOPIC:
Cyclopentane is your friend.

I agree, it is possible to have a budget racer when big companies back the parts and they can be hard with excellent availability at low cost. As soon as you make this venture with the SVX I can promise you the motor alone will cost over 4 grand. Then you have the turbo/turbos where you are looking at at least 2k for the turbo and SOME of the supporting pieces.so you are at at least 6 grand for that. Then you have fab costs, initial cost of the car, building a driveline to handle it... Good luck spending anything less than 20 grand making a low 12 second SVX

Tom

[ZephTheChef]

Originally Posted by SilverSpear

How??????????

Just sit back and relax and wait for project pics. I won't be able to get time off work (post office...december is going to be NUTS) to go pick up the car until mid-January...then the mods begin. I'm not saying I'm going to have a 10 second SVX, and I'm certainly not saying I'm not gonna run into problems along the way...but this is definitely going to be a fun project even if nothing ever comes of it.

[cdigerlando]

Originally Posted by ZephTheChef

Just sit back and relax and wait for project pics. I won't be able to get time off work (post office...december is going to be NUTS) to go pick up the car until mid-January...then the mods begin. I'm not saying I'm going to have a 10 second SVX, and I'm certainly not saying I'm not gonna run into problems along the way...but this is definitely going to be a fun project even if nothing ever comes of it.

I don't want to discourage you either, but Tom is correct about the other items in the car that need to be modified. Your Stealth came with a turbo ready motor and trans. The SVX does not. That is where the real cost is. I think it is still a cost effective project, if you get a great deal on an SVX, but it is going to cost some money. I would highly recommend starting with an ECU tune build, engine management (maybe a used Tec II which I can help you with), injectors, fuel pump. If I remember correctly your transmission is already gone. If you want to stay with the automatic, either have it rebuilt by level 10 or go with the ECUtune rebuild which is currently under development. If you want to convert it to a stick, Tom could probably help you with that. I would recommend the 6 speed STi trans.

After that you can fab up any configuration you want. Twins installed in the fenders feeding to a front mounted intercooler would be a great setup.

Just don't want you to go down that road and decide you are in way over your head. It is a major overhaul.