Strange electrical problem

[Dessertrunner]

Eric I have a question for you does your car have a after market alarm or engine kill switch of some kind. I have tested the solanoid wire when the car refused to start and it does not have power in fact even when the car does start it is just good luck because the voltage is as low as 8 v. The reason I asked the fiirst question is that my car has a hidden button that latches a relay and I think that my be the problem.
When the key is turned to the starter pos you can hear the relay in the fuse box under the boonet click in. Clearly I have a lose or bad contact between the battery and the starter solanoid.
The million dollar question is were. Anyone got any suggestion were to start looking.
Tony

[It's Just Eric]

hmm...nope. no aftermarket kill switches or alarms installed. If there was I probly would have found it sometime during one of my frequent dashboard removals.
My electrical gremlin hasnt come back yet, making trying to fix it a ittle difficult. I have been driving the car on short (Under 10 miles a day) runs all week without getting the starting issue. my guess is that it won't do it unless the car is warmed up quite well. Tomorrow Im going to change some fluids and have a look around for anything out of the ordinary

[oab_au]

Originally Posted by Dessertrunner

Eric I have a question for you does your car have a after market alarm or engine kill switch of some kind. I have tested the solanoid wire when the car refused to start and it does not have power in fact even when the car does start it is just good luck because the voltage is as low as 8 v. The reason I asked the fiirst question is that my car has a hidden button that latches a relay and I think that my be the problem.
When the key is turned to the starter pos you can hear the relay in the fuse box under the boonet click in. Clearly I have a lose or bad contact between the battery and the starter solanoid.
The million dollar question is were. Anyone got any suggestion were to start looking.
Tony

Tony you are probably having the "low current to the starter solenoid" problem. This can be fixed by fitting a relay to the starter solenoid to deliver enough current to the solenoid.
You can find a bit on it here.
http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28788
Just make sure that you use a relay with a coil resistance of about 85 ohms. ( Bosch 30 Amp)to insure that the Cruise Control circuitry, that goes to ground through this circuit, won't cause the starter to operate, if the resistance of the relay coil is too high.

Harvey.

[Dessertrunner]

Harvey I would like to have a look at the existing wiring before putting in a relay. If it was a problem that developed over time its degree of occurance would become more frequent over time instead it just wasn't there one day and was the next after a hard trip. I suppect a bad relay or connection because when it isn't going to start the engine it kills all the other power in the car. Not a fan of cutting and moding wiring unless absolutly nesscory.

[subru92svx]

I believe I am having a similiar problem with my 92 Ls-l. It seems to have started about two months ago. Once in awhile when I turn my key to start the car nothing happens. So I will turn the key one or two more times and then it will start. I haven't had a case yet where the car wouldn't start after a few more turns of the key. It also doesn't seem to matter weather the car is hot or cold. Its not a big deal, but it would be nice to take care of incase or before my car decides not to start at all since the car is my daily driver.

[Dessertrunner]

subru92svx does you keys come out of the ignation when the car is running?

[Dessertrunner]

Harvey I have a half cut so I am going to change the following items Inhibitor relay, Mains relay & the diode then if it fixes the problem I will reverse the change till I find which one gave the problem. When the car won't start there is a a lack of sound from one of the relays and the whole car goes dead.
Tony

[Dessertrunner]

Okay only had time to change the main relay under the drivers dash held to the ECU by a clamp. It is the little round metal one, I changed it and so far the problem has gone away. I have done everything possiable turned on the lights etc heat the car on long drive and still no problem so fingers crossed I may have got some were. Will let you know latter in the week how I get on.
Tony

[subru92svx]

I have never really tried to so I just went outside and did. You can't pull the key out while my car is running it is held in pretty good. I also tried to wiggle my ignition to see if it was loose, but it is in the nice and solid.

[Dessertrunner]

Okay the problem is the relay under the dash so replace it and your problems should go away. I have attached a pict that I hope shows you what it looks like.

[subru92svx]

Thanks dessertrunner I guess I will try that. Maybe I'll run up to my local Subaru dealer on Monday and see if they recognize the part in the picture. I will keep you posted if it fixes my problem or not. Anyone know the part number?

[It's Just Eric]

I think i found my problem....
Its something in the starter...Im going to make a guess that its the previously mentioned "Starter solonoid"
Basicly, when it doesnt work, hit it with a hammer, and itll fire right up. My guess is something is jammed or stuck. Im going to replace the starter and pray it no longer happens

Man I hate electricity. glad to know the only problem with my new(er) svx only needs a tranny

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Trevor

Specifically you state the lights go dim, I gather when you turn the key to the start position, which means that there is a connection being made and substantial current is being passed. The important criteria being that you are certain there is no associated sound and you are sure that the battery is sound.

If the dimming of the lights is what you normally experience and there is not the normal sound of the solenoid engaging, this could indicate a mechanically seized solenoid but the solenoid would have to be closed for the starter to draw the sort of current normally required to dim the lights.

The alternative is a partial short circuit bypassing current and preventing the solenoid closing and also dimming the lights. This could involve shorted turns within the solenoid, but an unlikely fault.

However the more likely and simpler explanation is a faulty battery connections or battery, contrary to what you report.

Simple logical electrical testing with a test light will locate the problem. If you wish to proceed with what is involved after further consideration, shout.

N.B. Refer the second paragraph.

[Dessertrunner]

Eric the starter problem is just a result of the mains relay planning up eg the voltage goes down current goes up so hit with Hammer then adds extra free force which results in getting connection.
Trevor I read some other comment you made on a different tread and agreed the problem needs to be fixed by finding the true problem.
My car is perfect since I changed the main relay under the dash.
The problem is lights go down not because to much load they go down because the connection in the mains relay won't let the full load current throught then voltage drops which then means more current till the circut is broken. Exactly as happens with a dirty battery terminal, powers good till load comes on then nothing.
Eric change the relay don't bother changing the starter done that and it doesn't get rid of the problem just may reduce its occurance.
Tony

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Dessertrunner

Eric the starter problem is just a result of the mains relay planning up eg the voltage goes down current goes up so hit with Hammer then adds extra free force which results in getting connection.
Trevor I read some other comment you made on a different tread and agreed the problem needs to be fixed by finding the true problem.
My car is perfect since I changed the main relay under the dash.
The problem is lights go down not because to much load they go down because the connection in the mains relay won't let the full load current throught then voltage drops which then means more current till the circut is broken. Exactly as happens with a dirty battery terminal, powers good till load comes on then nothing.
Eric change the relay don't bother changing the starter done that and it doesn't get rid of the problem just may reduce its occurance.
Tony

Thanks Tony,

What you say makes a lot of sense. The main relay performs rather an arduous duty and the contacts could very well become eroded and the overtravel reduced to nil. It could probably be given an extra life with some attention, but replacing it was a wise option.

It would be worthwhile if you could open up your old one and advise what you find has deteriorated. The more practical stuff reported here the better.

Cheers, Trevor.