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  #1  
Old 06-10-2003, 06:23 PM
Chicane Chicane is offline
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Beav, Harvey, Trevor, experience needed

My car is leaking oil from the front of the engine. Phil diagnosed this as the crank seal leaking... but the cam seals might be dripping a bit too. I'd really like to do this myself, and I'm pretty mechanically inclined, but I'm just not real familiar with a flat 6 engine. I've started reading through the manuals that Reaper put online, and it doesn't look too horibble, but I guess my biggest question is this:

What all do I have to do (to replace the crank seal and the cam seals)?

In order to REACH the crank seal, I'd have to take out the radiator (I want to get it flushed and realign the fins), waterpump, and .... then what?

I've changed heads on my 383 charger by myself before (man did that suck), and I've rebuilt a stude engine with my dad, but this is just so foreign to me. I'll also probably be doing this with my fiance's dad sometime next month, and he used to be a mechanic (went to school and everything for it), so that should help.

But any tips? I just sorta feel like I should be able to do IT, but I'm not sure exactly what IT entails.

Thanks in advance!

- Rob
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Old 06-10-2003, 10:30 PM
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Over to Beav.

Sorry Rob but I would be stupid to put my oar in here. Beav IS THE MAN FOR YOU.

I hope a puller or other special tools you may not have are not required. As a youg guy with no money I tackled all sorts of jobs without the proper gear. I usually got the job done but with much hastle. The big ' bugger bugger ' comes if you damage something. My problem in thoes days was lack of a second car to pick up parts. Not always easy on a bicycle !

Best of luck and I am SURE Beav will helo you no end.. Trevor.
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  #3  
Old 06-11-2003, 06:00 AM
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Rob,
As I'm in the middle of the water pump, timing belts, and front seals, I'm taking pics and will try to do a write up on it after its all done with pics...so if you can wait a couple weeks..I'll try to help you out
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  #4  
Old 06-11-2003, 06:11 AM
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There are a lot of things you have to do to change those oil seals. I have been into the SVX engine three times now, down to the seal level and once on 2.2 Legacy. So I have learned a few things.

To write up all the steps would take a long time but I can give you some advice for free. I am not going over the removal stuff, you know the ac, ps belts and brackets, just the sticky steps.

Take the radiator out so you got more room to work, regardless of Beav saying it can be done. You and I don'y have his skill level.

You need a tool to hold the crank pulley so you can get the bolt out. There are posts on this subject, some rather interesting approaches leading to varied methods. You may need a 1/2" breaker bar and a 3' pipe to break the bolt loose if it hasn't been out in awhile.

After the timing belt cover is off, the timing marks have to be aligned and marked. The marks on the belt DO NOT need to be marked. The marks on the cam pulleys and crank are to be marked. The crank is turned by putting the crank pulley back ON loosely. Turning the crank pulley aligns the marks. Keep these in position while working.

After the T belt is out you will need a tool to hold the cam pulley to get cam pulley bolt out and again maybe a 1/2"bb-p. I made a tool for this.

You will have to pull off the crank T-belt cog and a puller maybe needed. I needed one the first time I pulled it off.

The woodruff key will have to be removed. Don't loose it. It fits tight in the shaft keyway and is special

Beav has revealed his "secrets" for pulling oil seals, so this is searchable.

You will need cylindrical items of some length to install the new oil seals. These have a slightly smaller OD then the seal to be installed. Beav has used large sockets for this. I suspect deep sockets. Not readily available at Sears or other stores in the size needed. This is also searchable for "Beav secrets" of installing oil seals, protect the shaft.

You will need torque wrenches.

You will need a small HARDENED allen key that will be cut and shaped and used to hold the T belt tensioner plunger after compressing. The plunger compression can be done in a large vise or with a small pipe clamp, a wood workers item.

That's about all I remember at this time. You may also want to replace your oil pump, water pump and radiator too.

Oh yeah, when you get the T-belt back in and set it on the marks, tension the belt by turning a cam cog. This will take the slack out of the T-belt before the tensioner is installed. There is also a post on installing the tensioner or should I say wrong install.

Gosh I just love working on this car.

One other point, when tightening/loosening the cam pulley bolts, tighten with hand motion force in the horizontal direction. This puts forces in line with the head bolts. Its safer than vertical which can shift the head on the block if the head is so inclined. IT's just something I started doing after having a head gasket go.
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  #5  
Old 06-11-2003, 07:14 AM
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I'll post my own secrets for replacing the front seal. I did mine last Spring. These will be in no particular order.

First of all, don't bother trying to take the seal out with the oil pump in. In my opinion, it's not worth risking damage to the crankshaft. With the pump out, you can easily press the old seal out from behind.

To install the seal, I used a PVC pipe adapter. One side of the adapter was large enough to comfortably press in the seal, and the other side was smaller and easily tapped with a rubber mallet. It cost me 25 cents at Lowe's.

I bought a nice 3-arm puller from Sears to pull the crank pulley off, but then I found that it came off very easily. It was not for nothing, though - I needed it to remove the t-belt sprocket from the crank. Be very careful with this - there are little wheels on the back of the sprocket for the crank angle sensors and they bend easily.

I removed the radiator before all of this, of course - I didn't want to damage it accidentally. You can do the work without removing the radiator, but I found that having it out makes for a nice opportunity to blast the gunk out of the fins. My AC actually didn't work on hot days before I washed my radiator, and now it does flawlessly. All the bugs, leaves and rocks prevented airflow through the radiator and the AC condenser.

Oh, one final piece of advice (for now...until I remember more): be very careful tightening the bolts for the timing belt covers. Really, I'm not kidding. It's very easy to break the covers by over-torquing those bolts.
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  #6  
Old 06-11-2003, 10:55 AM
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Thanx John and Nick, for saving me some typing.

I would just add a couple notes:

Seeing how the seals are leaking I'd suggest ordering the little rubber gaskets that go in the bottom of the covers, they're sure to be soaked and ten times larger than should be.

Next, order the o-ring that mounts the oil pump to the block, so many people have been ganked by the dealer for a whole pump when only the o-ring was necessary. I'd hazard to guess that many crank seals have been replaced when it was just the o-ring that was leaking. Don't NOT replace the crank seal though, disturbing it can make it leak also. Pick up a tube of hylomar at the parts store for re-installing the oil pump to the block - silicone just isn't tough enough for the long haul. (I really hate how many people shmear silicone sealer all over everything. It isn't very strong and will easily push out and leak. It really should only be used where two gaskets meet in a corner, and NEVER as a sealant on top of a regular gasket. If used that way it acts as a lubricant that will let the new gasket push out and/or tear when torqued.)

I'd go ahead and replace the t-belt and water pump. For me it's v. easy to do, but for most it will save you the effort of doing it all over again (unless they've been done recently.)

Nick is right about tightening the cover bolts, just a little goes a long way. I usually have problems taking them off without breaking the covers, mainly due to the last person in there over-torquing them.

Good Luck and hold the beer until after you're done
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Last edited by Beav; 06-11-2003 at 10:59 AM.
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  #7  
Old 06-11-2003, 11:55 AM
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Beav, maybe I asked you this before and maybe I didn't. I used high-temp RTV to seal my oil pump to the block, as per the Chilton manual. I did not have the FSMs at the time, so that's what I went by.

Was that bad? Or is it just likely to leak sooner than I expect?

And, I'm a bit fuzzy on this because it was over a year ago, but I don't remember an o-ring on the oil pump. I certainly didn't get a new one. I mean, if there was one on the pump to begin with, it went right back where it was, but I don't remember it.

That may explain why I still have an oil drip. Not severe - it only leaks a quart in about a year - but maybe that's where it's coming from.

Someday I just want to yank the engine, strip it down, and replace all the seals. Maybe I'll do that sooner than I originally expected.
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  #8  
Old 06-11-2003, 07:16 PM
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Re: Beav, Harvey, Trevor, experience needed

Quote:
Originally posted by Chicane

What all do I have to do (to replace the crank seal and the cam seals)?

Thanks in advance!

- Rob
I'll be taking this trip shortly myself. I have a leak in front myself (actually the car ahs a leak) and it's just over 120,000 miles. Timing belt time. Keep an eye on E-Bay for a belt. Both Huck and myself got one for a good price. Less than half price for me. If I do mine first I'll toss in any tidbits I can.

Randy ii
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  #9  
Old 06-11-2003, 07:22 PM
Chicane Chicane is offline
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Man, it's going to take me a while to digest all this info, but I think you for all your replies. I'm just used to the simplicity of a v8, or an inline 4 for that matter. These boxer engines... my brain just doesn't quite grasp them yet. I realize how they're oriented,....but all this stuff... I know it, but I don't like "Jedi" know it yet. If only I had a scale model of porsche/svx engine that I could play with at work to really get an understanding with.

Anyway, I'll post some more questions once I've digested all this a bit more.

- Rob
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  #10  
Old 06-12-2003, 07:04 PM
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Nick. the RTV silicone will probably be o.k., it's just my preference is Hylomar or similar. It has a lot more surface tension when cured. The o-ring is #GS1905 in this pic (if my guess is correct) : http://www.subaruparts.com/diag/?mod...category=032-1

After taking a long look at my cam cover gaskets the other day I realized that the cover gaskets weren't leaking at all, all the oil was coming from the bolt seals. I have a hard time chewing $2/ea. for the washers so I placed a small o-ring under each washer and reinstalled them. I figure not only does this give the washer a new, snugger seal but it also tightens the entire cover a tad more. I just did the lower right side and left the left side alone. I sprayed both sides off and will look at them in a month or so to see if it worked.
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  #11  
Old 06-13-2003, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Beav
Nick. the RTV silicone will probably be o.k., it's just my preference is Hylomar or similar. It has a lot more surface tension when cured. The o-ring is #GS1905 in this pic (if my guess is correct) : http://www.subaruparts.com/diag/?mod...category=032-1

After taking a long look at my cam cover gaskets the other day I realized that the cover gaskets weren't leaking at all, all the oil was coming from the bolt seals. I have a hard time chewing $2/ea. for the washers so I placed a small o-ring under each washer and reinstalled them. I figure not only does this give the washer a new, snugger seal but it also tightens the entire cover a tad more. I just did the lower right side and left the left side alone. I sprayed both sides off and will look at them in a month or so to see if it worked.
Man, I don't remember that o-ring at all. I hope it just stayed put in its hole and was there when I reassembled it. Whoops. I would have replaced it, had the Chilton's manual called for it. Argh...

Oh, and about my oil drip, here's something weird. The car always used to leave ONE drop on the floor, pretty much no matter how long it was parked for. After I replaced the front seal, I expected this drip to go away.

It' didn't. It kept dripping - until now. I cleaned the garage floor awhile ago, and I just noticed a few days ago that the car is no longer leaving drips on the floor.

Weird

Ah, well - it still needs the cam seals, valve cover gaskets, etc. replaced.
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Last edited by Mr. Pockets; 06-13-2003 at 10:04 AM.
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  #12  
Old 06-16-2003, 06:31 PM
jsvxstyle jsvxstyle is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Beav
Nick. the RTV silicone will probably be o.k., it's just my preference is Hylomar or similar. It has a lot more surface tension when cured. The o-ring is #GS1905 in this pic (if my guess is correct) : http://www.subaruparts.com/diag/?mod...category=032-1

After taking a long look at my cam cover gaskets the other day I realized that the cover gaskets weren't leaking at all, all the oil was coming from the bolt seals. I have a hard time chewing $2/ea. for the washers so I placed a small o-ring under each washer and reinstalled them. I figure not only does this give the washer a new, snugger seal but it also tightens the entire cover a tad more. I just did the lower right side and left the left side alone. I sprayed both sides off and will look at them in a month or so to see if it worked.
if you need the seals that go around the bolt to the valve cover, or those washer with rubber on them i can get them by the millions. if you want ill find how much it is, if i can remember there 50cents each my cost
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  #13  
Old 07-27-2008, 06:48 AM
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Talking Re: Beav, Harvey, Trevor, experience needed

Yah, I know, this a really old thread. However, I did a search of Hylomar to come across it.

I was looking on www.harborfreight.com for tools and Hylomar was listed at $4.99 per tube, didn't exactly say the size, looked like 3 oz aprox. Item # 97824-1VGA

Beav, how did the O rings hold up under the bolt washers?

Dave
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Old 07-27-2008, 10:39 AM
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Re: Beav, Harvey, Trevor, experience needed

Not exactly "O" rings "should" never? be a problem

Really would be a good idea just to change those seal since you have to remove the bolts and put washers on as well
Proper torque of course!

My 2C'ts worth,
Keith
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Old 07-27-2008, 10:51 AM
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Re: Beav, Harvey, Trevor, experience needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwren View Post
Not exactly "O" rings "should" never? be a problem

Really would be a good idea just to change those seal since you have to remove the bolts and put washers on as well
Proper torque of course!

My 2C'ts worth,
Keith
In this thread Beav said he put O rings on the bolts between the washer & valve cover. Just wanted to know if leaks or no leaks.
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