Coilpack problems continue

[benebob]

Only at cold? That doesn't sound spark plug related or coil pack related to me. Are you still not getting any codes? I'd favor a coolant temp sensor issue. I'd doubt its bad but rather running lean (as if the engine is warmed up) at cold. The wires of these get brittle and turn green with tarnish.

[Manarius]

Originally Posted by benebob

Only at cold? That doesn't sound spark plug related or coil pack related to me. Are you still not getting any codes? I'd favor a coolant temp sensor issue. I'd doubt its bad but rather running lean (as if the engine is warmed up) at cold. The wires of these get brittle and turn green with tarnish.

Only until the engine gets up to some temperature which I can't quite determine, but it definitely quits missing a lot when it's fully warm. It still does occasionally miss though. Like I said, Tom and I had it on the lift, he said it sounded just like a blown coil pack. Some of them have a little bit of bare wire, but this stuff started happening when I changed the plugs.

The CTS is brand new Subaru OEM. I bought it just a while ago after this stuff started happening. It all started with the plug change to the NGK's. They're exactly what are recommended here, so I don't think it's the plugs.

[benebob]

Why are you throwing parts at it? That is nothing but a waste of money unless they're know bad. Did you look at your wire going to the coolant temp sensor? I've never seen one on a 15 year old Subaru that was still solid and capable of a good connection. Which coolant sensor did you replace? Usually when the sensor is bad it will have issues starting between hot and cold but not when cold or hot.

If it started when you changed the plugs I'd say that's your problem more than likely. Plugs can be bad from new, mishandled and dropped or simply have a wrong gap. A good plug reader should be able to tell you lots when you remove 'em. Mark them and have someone take a good look at 'em.

Originally Posted by Manarius

Only until the engine gets up to some temperature which I can't quite determine, but it definitely quits missing a lot when it's fully warm. It still does occasionally miss though. Like I said, Tom and I had it on the lift, he said it sounded just like a blown coil pack. Some of them have a little bit of bare wire, but this stuff started happening when I changed the plugs.

The CTS is brand new Subaru OEM. I bought it just a while ago after this stuff started happening. It all started with the plug change to the NGK's. They're exactly what are recommended here, so I don't think it's the plugs.

[Manarius]

Originally Posted by benebob

Why are you throwing parts at it? That is nothing but a waste of money unless they're know bad. Did you look at your wire going to the coolant temp sensor? I've never seen one on a 15 year old Subaru that was still solid and capable of a good connection. Which coolant sensor did you replace? Usually when the sensor is bad it will have issues starting between hot and cold but not when cold or hot.

If it started when you changed the plugs I'd say that's your problem more than likely. Plugs can be bad from new, mishandled and dropped or simply have a wrong gap. A good plug reader should be able to tell you lots when you remove 'em. Mark them and have someone take a good look at 'em.

I replaced the brown CTS - not the blue one. I replaced it with Subaru OEM. I don't really know about the wiring going to it, but I can only imagine how much that wiring would cost. I don't know how that wiring could be bad though...it's not like it gets abused at all...

This is the second set of NGK plugs I bought. I put on the first set, had this problem and then replaced the entire set to no avail. I was very careful with them all to make sure that none were damaged during install. I've pulled out every one of the second set and none of them appear to be any more damaged than normal use or gapped incorrectly.

Ben, if you listen at the beginning of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz_MaB4yh98 you can hear the cylinder drop. Or at 40-50 seconds on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWQmew5_DbU

[benebob]

Originally Posted by Manarius

I replaced the brown CTS - not the blue one. I replaced it with Subaru OEM. I don't really know about the wiring going to it, but I can only imagine how much that wiring would cost. I don't know how that wiring could be bad though...it's not like it gets abused at all...

This is the second set of NGK plugs I bought. I put on the first set, had this problem and then replaced the entire set to no avail. I was very careful with them all to make sure that none were damaged during install. I've pulled out every one of the second set and none of them appear to be any more damaged than normal use or gapped incorrectly.

Ben, if you listen at the beginning of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz_MaB4yh98 you can hear the cylinder drop. Or at 40-50 seconds on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWQmew5_DbU

Wiring is cheap. You replace it with copper wire not a factory harness. That wire is in a very warm spot and also is subject to coolant gases hence why it goes bad.

You're still not saying what's needed plug wise. What did they look like after at least 1000 miles?

[Manarius]

Originally Posted by benebob

Wiring is cheap. You replace it with copper wire not a factory harness. That wire is in a very warm spot and also is subject to coolant gases hence why it goes bad.

You're still not saying what's needed plug wise. What did they look like after at least 1000 miles?

I will look at the wiring tomorrow.

I can't say that I've pulled a plug recently. I know that at 500 miles, the plugs looked like any other plugs. Here are pictures of what the plugs looked like:

[benebob]

Jason,
you aren't telling me which plugs they are and how long they were in. The older ones don't look "like any other plug" to me. They look like they're from an engine that is running horribly rich.

[Manarius]

Originally Posted by benebob

Jason,
you are telling me which plugs they are and how long they were in. The older ones don't look "like any other plug" to me. They look like they're from an engine that is running horribly rich.

I guess I'll really have to check out that wiring. If the CTS is out of whack, it would definitely make the ECU dump in too much fuel.

[svxfiles]

Originally Posted by Manarius

I do have to admit though, when I pulled the driver's side back, it didn't change as much as when I pulled the other five.

Jason,
Call me.
301-707-3437

[XT6Wagon]

Have you checked the battery cables yet? Mine wouldn't run at all and I fixed 99% of that with 1 new bolt and some attention with a battery brush.

Again, the sensors won't work right if there isn't a good connection to the battery.

[Subix]

Have you ever gotten to the end of this? I was just on Youtube and ran across your stumbling video.... sounds terrible. I feel your pain.

On the coil packs, did you carefully remove the rubber boot? On the coil pack that was faulty on mine, I removed the rubber boot (IIRC is one of the causes for the misfire or arching? maybe not... going from memory here) but the coil pack connector itself was actually cracked, creating the gap, under the boot.
(please someone correct me if I'm saying all of this wrong )

I can't take pics because I'm not at home but if you take it off and inspect it very closely, if you see a hairline crack it most likely is the defective one. I barely pushed the side of it and it pushed back, giving 2 cracks.

[Manarius]

Originally Posted by Subix

Have you ever gotten to the end of this? I was just on Youtube and ran across your stumbling video.... sounds terrible. I feel your pain.

On the coil packs, did you carefully remove the rubber boot? On the coil pack that was faulty on mine, I removed the rubber boot (IIRC is one of the causes for the misfire or arching? maybe not... going from memory here) but the coil pack connector itself was actually cracked, creating the gap, under the boot.
(please someone correct me if I'm saying all of this wrong )

I can't take pics because I'm not at home but if you take it off and inspect it very closely, if you see a hairline crack it most likely is the defective one. I barely pushed the side of it and it pushed back, giving 2 cracks.

So, I think I may have remedied this situation. I had some Subaru Bucks to use at the dealership, so I had them do the "induction" service on the fuel injectors. Basically, they run some sort of chemical straight through the fuel rails and through the injectors. It would have cost $130+ tax if I didn't have the Subaru bucks. I guess the ultimate problem was that I had a periodically sticking injector.