We Are Under Attack !!!!!!!! - Page 15

lhopp77 · #**211** 07-25-2006, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverSpear

YOU are the one missing the point. I just wish either you or Lee, can watch closely what is really happening here, I mean be here in Lebanon and see what is happening.

People usually when they hear a Muslim Militia having weapons, this means that they are terrorits. Well not all of them are so my friend, those people are patriots who are asking for a free and COMPLETE borders away from outside interfierence. if Lebanon was occupying a part of Israel, this is never acceptable, because the world will see Lebanon as an offender, but the contrary never stands true.. WHY???

Hizbullah's arms will always be backed up by the Lebanese people both Muslims and Christians as long as Israel is still occupying our territories, and believe it or not, they are the only force that can push Israel to withdraw because we cannot rely on your government NOT using the Veto always in support to Israel.

This is the simple truth, you are welcomed both you and Lee to accept it if you want to.

Again---we see much more complete news than you do. Yours is slanted unless you can also receive the US channels or say--BBC channels. We have seen several examples where Arab channels will show the same pictures, but say different things than what is actually being said.

One of the CNN reporters got into a bit of controversy because he was taken into the bombed area by a Hezballoh representative. They went through the area and even viewed the "bombed mosque" or "Hezballoh bunker" and the story implied that ONLY civilian targets were being bombed. HOWEVER, the reported finally admitted that he was not allowed to ENTER ANY OF THE BUILDINGS---WHY??????? BECAUSE WEAPONS AND OTHER THINGS WERE BEING HIDDEN INSIDE.

You haven't seen pictures of private homes where one room is dedicated to weapons (mostly rockets) storage while the family continues to live there. The Hezballoh pulls out a couple rockets and fires them at Israel. YET, when Israel finally bombs the building to destroy the rockets----civilians living there are killed----WELL, suprise, surprise!!!!!!

You made statements earlier about Hezballoh TV staying on the air after many bombing raids. Did you ever ask yourself why? Maybe it is where it is located. Possibly in a Mosque, Hospital or school. The Hezballoh is using these facilities to hide their weapons, fighters and command and control functions.

Again, Hezballoh is DIRECTLY to blame for civilian casualties other than a very few errant bombs/rockets or incorrectly indentified targets.

Actually your land issue is a much with Syria as it is with Israel. Israel does not have problems giving back land where they are protected from attacks. IF Lebanon had implemented Resolution 1559 and others, I am sure there would right now be discussions of settling land issues. Israel will keep what they need to protect themselves and I don't blame them, but give back what is not needed for protection.

Recognize their right to exist---secure your own country from terrorists----disarm the militias including Hezballoh---and you will find that they will not keep your land.

The US does not VETO even handed and fair resolutions that condemn both sides based on the facts. One sided resolutions that condemn Israel for reactions to provocations are vetoed when the provocation that started it is not even mentioned.

Hezballoh and all terrorist groups are the enemy---not Israel.

Lee

Royal Tiger · #**212** 07-25-2006, 01:06 PM

Did any of you ACTUALLY believe any media outlet would give an unbiased report of the action? The Arabs have to play the victims to get any support they can get. Israel has to try not to look to agressive in any action it takes, and the Americans have to be careful not to look like they are chomping at the bit to get into the region and support Isreali troops. Like any reporter is going to bother to take the time to learn the truth before they make their own assumptions. It reminds me off the "Hospital" that was bombed in Desert Storm, that CNN and everyone else jumped all over. Once it was learned it was a munitions plant and the Iraqi's ran beds and supplies over to make it look like a non-com target, the media disappeared. Losers.

SilverSpear · #**213** 07-26-2006, 03:15 AM

Yes, this is what happened to me yesterday afternoon. My friend who works in a car rental shop asked me to go with him to Zahle area near Bekaa to get a brand new Nissan Armada that was left by the renter on the side of the road. I was hesitant to go because the Israelis were shooting everywhere and especially SUV’s and 6 wheelers… We took a couple of white sheet of cloth and we went on a 2.5 hour trip until we finally arrived at the portal of Zahle (usually it takes 45 mins to get there from Beirut, but that road was destroyed we took the longer one). The scenes were horrible, cars burned, trucks burned, houses destroyed… I never expected to see such destruction in an area NOT causing any threat to Israel. Then I began smelling death, I swear to God, I was smelling dead meat everywhere, most probably of bodies under the demolished houses. I asked him to stop over and I throw… up!!! We arrived to the Nissan who was abandoned near the side of the road, I took the sheet and stick it to the back of the car, turned the AC on and returned back.

It couldn’t be that Hizbullah was launching missiles from that area, not in a million years and I bet my SVX on it. I think I was speaking CHINESE in all this thread, let me make it more clear for those who are saying that Hizbullah is launching his missiles near Hospitals, Schools, etc…. Let me explain to you all following a map:

To begin with, the Lebanese Christians are mostly located in the Orange circle (there are few Muslims here and there), this area was not bombarded yet except for that TV antenna station that was hit a couple of days ago killing one Christian. (the reason for destroying that station is still unknown and no explanation was given from the Israelis). The yellow area is a mixed area shared by Christians, Muslims and Druzes. Most of the Druzes are located there and there was no major attack on this area. The Red area is the hot zone of Hizbullah WHERE HE IS LAUNCHING HIS KATYUCHAS AND NO WHERE ELSE (shall I put it in bold and maximize the font to 7 ??? or is it understood ?? I really feel insulted sometimes that some people in this forum just don’t really know what is happening here and they want to impose their opinion as being SOLELY the correct one…) I can understand people being killed in their homes there, I know Hizbullah is throwing missiles next to their homes, but what about the civilians and red cross that are being killed on roads??? The Israeli Jets and Apaches are playing a video game with those civilians… their Ideology in wars is based on Vendettas unlike the civilized world. Concerning the blue area, and speaking objectively, Hizbullah has presence there, but there is no way in the world they can throw their Missiles from there!!! I went yesterday to that area and saw how people are being slaughtered… most of them on streets... or Christian streets!!!!

For those who think I am only watching local stations, I want to tell you all that the Lebanese people currently have nothing to do except watching ALL TV stations, to make it more clear, the TV stations we watch are El Jazeera, CNN, New TV, El Manar, BBC, El Arabia, KC (or something, it is an Israeli TV) and LBC international. There was NO several examples of different opinions in Arabian TV stations, NOT ONCE.

You guys think that Hizbullah is hiding missiles like inside buildings??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, come onnnnnnnnn those guys are not that stupid!!! Ok let me tell you something, the Israelis who were successful in conquering a small town of 12-15 houses called “Maroun el Ras” claimed they found a fortified basement full of Katyuchas and anti tanks missiles… well I turned to CNN, BBC to see just a pic of this basement… you know why??? Because they are Certified liers because Maroun el Ras is a Christian town and there is no way in the world Hizbullah digs and builds a fortified basement there. And if a miracle happens and they were able to do that shelter I bet you that it is not built under any house… And since we are talking about fortified basements, you all know by now that Israel got “Clever Missiles” from your government that could go deep 40-50 meters inside the ground… those will be used to destroy those fortified shelters… let us see if they are located where the Israelis are stating they are…

This following sentence:” You haven't seen pictures of private homes where one room is dedicated to weapons (mostly rockets) storage while the family continues to live there. The Hezballoh pulls out a couple rockets and fires them at Israel. YET, when Israel finally bombs the building to destroy the rockets----civilians living there are killed----WELL, suprise, surprise!!!!!!” is the Israeli version to support their slaughter of civilians, PERIOD.

Israel has a big problem giving back our land, why haven’t they already retreated from the Golan Heights in Syria then?? There is no resistance in Syria and the latter is not sticking their noses in their affairs… that was in 1967, right??? Can you answer that Lee??? The Jews just like to scr*w everybody and when the States hears anything which has “…. Against Israel” in it, the Veto is automatically there!!!

Why you think Hizbullah is attacking Israel then? Just to have fun with them?? You will say because of the Palestinians… Newsflash bro, never think for any second that the Shiites are willing to destroy their land, people and country because of the Sunnites, you are seeing what is happening in Iraq right now between them… So please Lee, with full respect and honesty, there is no logic in your statements… or better there is no logic in what the Israeli and US governments are stating…

You want to call Hizbullah terrorist, I rest my case in this issue, you can call them whatever you want, from my point of view they form the Lebanese resistance who are fed up with outsiders sticking their noses in our affairs. We just want to run ourselves by ourselves, we want no Syrians, no Israelis, no US and no armed militias…

SubaSteevo · #**214** 07-26-2006, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royal Tiger

Did any of you ACTUALLY believe any media outlet would give an unbiased report of the action? The Arabs have to play the victims to get any support they can get. Israel has to try not to look to agressive in any action it takes, and the Americans have to be careful not to look like they are chomping at the bit to get into the region and support Isreali troops. Like any reporter is going to bother to take the time to learn the truth before they make their own assumptions. It reminds me off the "Hospital" that was bombed in Desert Storm, that CNN and everyone else jumped all over. Once it was learned it was a munitions plant and the Iraqi's ran beds and supplies over to make it look like a non-com target, the media disappeared. Losers.

Ding ding, we've got a winner

DanSVX94 · #**215** 07-26-2006, 07:58 AM

Hey, Danny -- your trip to get the Nissan sounds awful. What happened on your return trip? By the fact that you posted here I assume you made it back safely. The smells of death must be truly terrible.

It seems that Hezbollah could do a lot to get a ceasefire if they released the 2 kidnapped Israeli soldiers. Why don't they just release them? If they did that and stopped firing rockets the shooting would stop.

I think Israel is afraid to return the Golan Heights because of the geography. The Golan Heights were lost when Israel was attacked by armies that would have killed every Israeli. Those countries behind these armies are iike gamblers in Las Vegas, they rolled the dice and lost and now want their money back.

A lot of people think that the Palestinians and Lebanese are being used for political purposes by countries like Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia and others.

I've never been to the Mideast, and what I've written above are just my impressions based on what I've heard over the last 4 decades.

Stay safe, and I hope this is over soon.

WGJ · #**216** 07-26-2006, 01:24 PM

the two "kidnapped" are probably already dead, unfortunately, because you are right, that would go a long way toward getting public opinion behind a cessation of hostilities. Unfortunately, Bush and the Israelis are taking the 'opportunity' to destroy Hezbollah in Lebanon at the expense of the innocent Lebanese civilian population and I don't think that the release of the two Israeli soldiers will do anything to slow that down. Apparently the agenda is to pound Lebanon for a couple more weeks, regardless. They are not going to wipe out Hebollah this way. It's a stupid strategy.
This is not right, but what can we do to stop it?

WGJ

triumph1902 · #**217** 07-26-2006, 03:13 PM

http://www.yahoo.com/s/355968

lhopp77 · #**218** 07-26-2006, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triumph1902

http://www.yahoo.com/s/355968

The pictures are both interesting and tragic. War is not pretty and these people are either Hezballoh supporters or are at least sympathetic to them, hence, their current situation. Remember who started this war and who could have ended it very early on by returning the captured soldiers. Unfortunately it is too late for that now and Hezballoh and these people are paying the price.

Lee

lhopp77 · #**219** 07-26-2006, 06:38 PM

Some seem to forget things during tough going, even Danny. Keep your eyes on the ball.

Hizballah (Party of God) a.k.a. Islamic Jihad, Islamic Jihad Organization, Revolutionary Justice Organization, Organization of the Oppressed on Earth, Islamic Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine, Organization of Right Against Wrong, Ansar Allah, Followers of the Prophet Muhammed

Description: Radical Shia group formed in Lebanon; dedicated to creation of Iranian-style Islamic republic in Lebanon and removal of all non-Islamic influences from the area. Strongly anti-West and anti-Israel. Closely allied with, and often directed by, Iran but may have conducted operations that were not approved by Tehran.
Activities: Known or suspected to have been involved in numerous anti-US terrorist attacks, including the suicide truck bombing of the US Embassy and US Marine barracks in Beirut in October 1983 and the US Embassy annex in Beirut in September 1984. Elements of the group were responsible for the kidnapping and detention of US and other Western hostages in Lebanon. The group also attacked the Israeli Embassy in Argentina in 1992.

Strength: Several thousand.

Location/Area of Operation: Operates in the Bekaa Valley, the southern suburbs of Beirut, and southern Lebanon. Has established cells in Europe, Africa, South America, North America, and elsewhere.

External Aid: Receives substantial amounts of financial, training, weapons, explosives, political, diplomatic, and organizational aid from Iran and Syria

Lee

SubaSteevo · #**220** 07-26-2006, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhopp77

The pictures are both interesting and tragic. War is not pretty and these people are either Hezballoh supporters or are at least sympathetic to them, hence, their current situation.

What about this kid? Is he a supporter or is he just sympathetic?

lhopp77 · #**221** 07-26-2006, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SubaSteevo

What about this kid? Is he a supporter or is he just sympathetic?

Just keep these in mind when you sympathize with terrorists or terrorist caused situations. Perspective is important.

Worst Terrorist Attacks in Israel

compiled by Wm. Robert Johnston
last updated 1 September 2004

Terrorist attacks in Israel causing ten or more fatalities

17 Mar 1954 11 killed, others injured in ambush of bus between Eilat and Tel Aviv
22 Nov 1968 12 killed, 52 injured by bombing of Mahaneh Yehuda market
20 May 1970 12 killed, 19 injured (mostly children) in attack on school bus with three bazooka rockets
30 May 1972 26 killed (including 20 Puerto Ricans), 78 injured in attack with guns and grenades at Ben Gurion Airport; two terrorists also killed
11 Apr 1974 18 killed (including 8 children), 16 injured in attack by three terrorists on residential building in Qiryat Shemona
15 May 1974 27 killed, 134 injured in attack on Ma'alot; terrorists killed 2 people in initial attack and took 90 children hostage; most casualties were inflicted by the terrorists during a rescue attempt in which 20 children and 1 soldier were killed (along with all three terrorists)
6 Mar 1975 11 killed, 12 injured (seven terrorists also killed) in Tel Aviv attack: terrorists land by two boats on a Tel Aviv beach, fire at cars and soldiers, killing 2 soldiers; terrorists then seize a hotel which is stormed by Israeli troops at 0530; explosions kill 1 hostage, 1 soldier and 6 terrorists; 6 hostages and 1 terrorist are injured
4 Jul 1975 13 killed (including 2 children), 72 injured (including 2 Americans) in bombing at Zion Square in Jerusalem; bomb was in an abandoned refrigerator on a sidewalk surrounded by pre-Sabbath shopping crowds
11 Mar 1978 43 killed (including 1 American), 72 injured in shooting attack on Tel Aviv beach; thirteen terrorists land by boat on beach near Tel Aviv and seize a bus, engaging police in gun battle during which bus explodes (nine terrorists also killed)
6 Jul 1989 16 killed (including 1 American), 27 injured when terrorist forces a bus off a road into a ravine
25 Feb 1994 39 killed (all Palestinians), 250 injured in shooting attack at Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron
19 Oct 1994 22 killed (including one Dutch), 75 injured by suicide bombing (one terrorist killed) on bus in Tel-Aviv
25 Dec 1994 12 killed (1 American), 13 injured in suicide bombing at bus stop in Jerusalem
22 Jan 1995 19 killed (including 18 soldiers), 69 injured by two separate suicide bombers (both terrorists killed) at the Beit Lid junction near Netanya
25 Feb 1996 26 killed (including 9 soldiers and 3 Americans), 80 injured (including 3 Americans) by two suicide bombings on buses in Jerusalem; first bombing killed 23 (including 3 Americans) and injured at least 50; second bombing 30 minutes later killed 3, injured at least 25
3 Mar 1996 19 killed (including 3 soldiers, 1 Ethopian, and 7 Romanians), 7 injured by suicide bombing (one terrorist killed) on bus in Jerusalem; one of the Romanians died on 9 Mar of wounds
4 Mar 1996 14 killed (including 1 soldier), 163 injured (including 2 Americans) by suicide bombing at Dizengoff Center in Tel-Aviv
30 Jul 1997 16 killed (including 1 American), 178 injured (including 2 Americans) by two suicide bombings in Mahane Yehuda market in Jerusalem; three of those killed died subsequently of wounds (on 11 Aug, 29 Aug, 3 Oct)
1 Jun 2001 21 killed (including 1 Ukrainian), 120 injured in suicide bombing outside a disco in Tel Aviv (4 of those killed died the following days of injuries)
9 Aug 2001 15 killed (including 7 children, 1 American, and 1 Brazilian), 130 injured in suicide bombing at Sbarro pizzeria in Jerusalem
1 Dec 2001 11 killed (including 1 who died 8 Dec), 180 injured by two suicide bombings at Ben Yehuda pedestrian mall in Jerusalem
2 Dec 2001 15 killed (including 1 from the Philippines), 40 injured by suicide bombing on bus in Haifa
12 Dec 2001 11 killed (one who died 25 Mar 2002), 30 injured in attack on bus and several cars near Emmanuel
2 Mar 2002 10 killed (including 6 children), over 50 injured by suicide bomber in Orthodox neighborhood of Jerusalem; the terrorist detonated the bomb next to a group of women with baby carriages outside a synagogue
3 Mar 2002 10 killed (including 7 soldiers) in shooting attack near Ofra
9 Mar 2002 11 killed, 54 injured by suicide bombing in crowded cafe in Jerusalem
27 Mar 2002 27 killed, 140 injured in suicide bombing at Park Hotel in Netanya, during Passover
31 Mar 2002 15 killed, over 40 injured in suicide bombing (one terrorist also killed) at restaurant in Haifa
9 Apr 2002 13 soldiers killed, 7 others injured by booby-trap bomb and subsequent shooting attack during counter-terrorism operations
07 May 2002 15 killed and 55 injured in suicide bombing (one terrorist also killed) which caused partial collapse of game club in Rishon-Lezion
5 Jun 2002 17 killed (including 13 soldiers and 1 civilian teenager) and 38 injured by a suicide car bombing (one terrorist also killed) attack on a bus at the Megiddo junction near Afula
18 Jun 2002 19 killed (including 1 child and 1 teenager) and 74 injured (including many students) by a suicide bomber (one terrorist also killed) attack on a bus in Jerusalem
21 Oct 2002 14 killed, 50 injured (including several soldiers) by suicide car bombers (two terrorists also killed) attacking a bus
15 Nov 2002 12 killed (including 9 soldiers), 15 injured in shooting attack in Hebron (3 terrorists also killed)
21 Nov 2002 11 killed (including 4 children and 1 Romanian), 50 injured in suicide bombing on bus in Jerusalem
5 Jan 2003 23 killed, 120 injured by two suicide bombers (both terrorists also killed) who detonated bombs about 30 seconds apart near Central Bus Station, Tel-Aviv; those killed included 15 Israelis (1 soldier), 3 Chinese citizens (1 died 13 Jan), 2 Romanian citizens, 1 Ukranian, 1 citizen of Ghana, and 1 Bulgarian
5 Mar 2003 17 killed (including 1 child, 8 teenagers, and 2 soldiers), 53 injured by suicide bombing (one terrorist also killed) on bus in Haifa en route to Haifa University; of those killed, one died 8 Mar, one died 11 Mar
11 Jun 2003 17 killed (including 1 soldier, 1 citizen of Eritrea, and 1 Israeli who died 12 Jun), over 100 injured by suicide bombing on bus in Jerusalem
19 Aug 2003 (2100) 23 killed (including 2 infants--one American--3 children, 3 teenagers, and 1 Philippino, also 1 Israeli who died 23 Aug, 1 who died 5 Sep, and 1 who died 12 Sep), 133 injured in suicide bombing in Jerusalem on bus filled with Jewish worshippers
4 Oct 2003 21 killed (including 1 who died of injuries 9 Oct., 1 who died 15 Oct., and 4 children), 60 injured by suicide bombing in a restaurant in Haifa
29 Jan 2004 11 killed (including 1 Ethiopian), over 50 injured in suicide bombing (one terrorist also killed) on bus in Jerusalem
14 Mar 2004 10 killed, 16 injured in twin suicide bombings (5 killed immediately by first explosion, second explosion killed 3 immediately and fatally injured 2) (two terrorists also killed) at the port of Ashdod; the terrorists may have intended to reach chemical storage facilities
31 Aug 2004 (1500) 16 killed (including 1 child), 100 injured in twin suicide bombings on two buses in Beersheba; explosions occurred minutes apart after both buses left the same bus stop; some passengers, hearing the first explosion, succeeding in escaping the second bus before the second explosion"

If you want to see the ENTIRE list of terrorist acts against innocent Israelis---I will be happy to provide the link. AND this does not count the numerous military attacks by MANY Islamic countries on Israel. Show those pictures and voice the same indignition that you express in support of a terrorist organization that started the whole thing.

War IS hell and remember--Israel DID NOT START IT.

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terr...errisrael.html

Lee

SubaSteevo · #**222** 07-26-2006, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Just keep these in mind when you sympathize with terrorists or terrorist caused situations. Perspective is important.

Worst Terrorist Attacks in Israel

compiled by Wm. Robert Johnston
last updated 1 September 2004

Terrorist attacks in Israel causing ten or more fatalities

[Snip]

If you want to see the ENTIRE list of terrorist acts against innocent Israelis---I will be happy to provide the link. AND this does not count the numerous military attacks by MANY Islamic countries on Israel. Show those pictures and voice the same indignition that you express in support of a terrorist organization that started the whole thing.

War IS hell and remember--Israel DID NOT START IT.

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terr...errisrael.html

Lee

Ok, and how many of those attacks were carried out by Lebanese children?

Edit: (Or Lebanese even, since that list doesn't mention who did the attacks or why...that's kind of like us starting a war with Mexico because a couple of illegal immigrants kill a police officer and then using 9/11 as support.)

Edit #2: Now that I think about it, using your logic Columbine was justified. I mean the shooters got picked on a lot right? So why shouldn't they fight back? Oh wait, there's a difference, the Columbine shooters actually killed the people who did the picking on!

WGJ · #**223** 07-26-2006, 11:19 PM

of exactly what's wrong with the Middle East. Keeping score going back to 1954 as a rationale for murdering COMPLETELY INNOCENT CHILDREN is an apocryphal example of justifying this "conflict" and a suberb example of some seriously sick and twisted "reasoning". Are these children being killed a priori, before they can grow up to become terrorist? The Nazi's killed Jewish children precisely because they would grow up to be Jews. What's the difference? Although not masterfully articulated, since this is his second language, Danny made a powerful and totally valid point. If it is the case that the Israelis are simply exercising the sound military strategy of "The best defense is a good offense." there is no reason for them to not be much more careful of where they drop their bombs, 180 mm cannon shells and rockets. This indiscriminate slaughter of innocents is amoral and in violation of the Geneva Convention. I'm ashamed that the US has not pressed hard for a cease fire.

I realize Hezbollah is hiding behind the civilian population. How better to demonize the Jews than to have them seen as terrorists in the eyes of much of the world, in an iniquitous and apocryphal justification of Hezbollah , Syria and Iran's position that Israel must be "wiped off the map."
Meanwhile the methods of both sides come closer and closer, to more and more indiscriminate murdering of more Jews and more Arabs until it becomes a war of numbers on a massive scale, a sick contest of "We killed more of you than you killed of us today", on and on, ad infinitum, ad nauseaum.
Hezbollah started this stupidly and Isreal went for it...but there must be a better method to engage Hezbollah without so much "collateral damage".
Given Hezbollah's method of hidding in Mosques, etc can they be rooted out by ground troops? What about a border filled with an international armed force?
Surely there is a better way?

WGJ

mohrds · #**224** 07-27-2006, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WGJ

...What about a border filled with an international armed force?
Surely there is a better way?

WGJ

That would take an actual International force with some balls. Unfortunatly all we have is the UN and their paper "resolutions"

SilverSpear · #**225** 07-28-2006, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanSVX94

Hey, Danny -- your trip to get the Nissan sounds awful. What happened on your return trip? By the fact that you posted here I assume you made it back safely. The smells of death must be truly terrible.

It seems that Hezbollah could do a lot to get a ceasefire if they released the 2 kidnapped Israeli soldiers. Why don't they just release them? If they did that and stopped firing rockets the shooting would stop.

I think Israel is afraid to return the Golan Heights because of the geography. The Golan Heights were lost when Israel was attacked by armies that would have killed every Israeli. Those countries behind these armies are iike gamblers in Las Vegas, they rolled the dice and lost and now want their money back.

A lot of people think that the Palestinians and Lebanese are being used for political purposes by countries like Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia and others.

I've never been to the Mideast, and what I've written above are just my impressions based on what I've heard over the last 4 decades.

Stay safe, and I hope this is over soon.

Dear Dan,

If Hizbullah returns now the two kidnapped soldiers, I would be the first to condemn them as traitors. That is because they destroyed the country for nothing. To return those soldiers, Israel should exchange them with ours. Plus do you think that if we return them now, Israel would stop its attacks??? Not in a million gazillion years.

I say it again, fighting for one's freedom and country is never a role played for others!!! It is cristal clear, Israelis have Lebanese prisoners who has been there for the last 30 years, and they are occupying parts of Lebanon... WHAT IS TO DISCUSS IN THIS????

Let me tell you one thing once and for all, Hizbullah is not like the Quaeda who are bombing themselves to kill innocent people, they never do that now. In fact I was furious yesterday that Ayman El Zawahiri is standing with Hizbullah (Sunnite extremist with the Shiite), Hizbullah has nothing to do with those @ssholes and he never wants anything with them!

The truth is that Hasan Nasrallah and Hizbullah were on the list of El Quaeda list of assasination!!

If you don't believe me check any reference on that...

I say it again, the two Soldiers are well treated and are still alive as we speak. This is not El Quaeda we are talking about, I bet they are living like kings as we speak.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhopp77

The pictures are both interesting and tragic. War is not pretty and these people are either Hezballoh supporters or are at least sympathetic to them, hence, their current situation. Remember who started this war and who could have ended it very early on by returning the captured soldiers. Unfortunately it is too late for that now and Hezballoh and these people are paying the price.

Lee

Hahahahaaaa, funny as always Lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Some seem to forget things during tough going, even Danny. Keep your eyes on the ball.

Hizballah (Party of God) a.k.a. Islamic Jihad: More like Patriotic Islams
Islamic Jihad Organization: ???
Revolutionary Justice Organization: Correct
Organization of the Oppressed on Earth: where the hell you bring those sentences???
Islamic Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine: Hahaha, never would the Shiites fight other wars, I mean other than their owns, especially for SunnitesOrganization of Right Against Wrong: Correct
Ansar Allah: means God's followers, Correct
Followers of the Prophet Muhammed: Correct, same as we are followers of Jesus.

Description: Radical Shia group formed in Lebanon; dedicated to creation of Iranian-style Islamic republic in Lebanon and removal of all non-Islamic influences from the area. Strongly anti-West and anti-Israel. Closely allied with, and often directed by, Iran but may have conducted operations that were not approved by Tehran.

MY DESCRIPTION: Shiite Militia Group formed in Lebanon, dedicated to fight the western world who is helping terror against their fellow muslim in Palestine (even if they are Sunnites... because there is a sentence in the Qu'oran which says: Ansor akhaka zaliman kana am mazlouman, translating: Help your brother whether he was right or wrong). Strongly anti-West or anti -Israel. Closely allied by the Master Shiite country of Iran and funded heavily by them. Does not take any order from Iran whatsoever, because the latter does not gain anything from bombing and destroying Israel. The major benefitors in this war are the Lebanese people because they want to feel once in their lifetime that their dignity is restored, their word is heard and their decision is chosen by themselves.

Activities: Known or suspected to have been involved in numerous anti-US terrorist attacks in the early 80's, including the suicide truck bombing of the US Embassy and US Marine barracks in Beirut in October 1983 and the US Embassy annex in Beirut in September 1984 (Correct). Elements of the group were responsible for the kidnapping and detention of US and other Western hostages in Lebanon (Can you be more specific concerning timing and people???). The group also attacked the Israeli Embassy in Argentina in 1992 (This is the first time I heard this??? are you sure it was Hizbullah??).

Strength: Several thousand.

Location/Area of Operation: Operates in the Bekaa Valley (Military Storage to be send to southern Lebanon), the southern suburbs of Beirut (Political/Media bases), and southern Lebanon (the real juice is there). Has established cells in Europe, Africa, South America, North America, and elsewhere (this is never true!!!).

External Aid: Receives substantial amounts of financial, training, weapons, explosives, political, diplomatic, and organizational aid from Iran and Syria (Super Very Correct)

Lee

Check the bolds ^^^ and stop bringing wrong info from US sources. US always wants to have reasons to attack some country in the Middle East, so it must drill wrong ideas in people's skulls for this

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Just keep these in mind when you sympathize with terrorists or terrorist caused situations. Perspective is important.

Worst Terrorist Attacks in Israel

compiled by Wm. Robert Johnston
last updated 1 September 2004

Terrorist attacks in Israel causing ten or more fatalities

17 Mar 1954 11 killed, others injured in ambush of bus between Eilat and Tel Aviv
22 Nov 1968 12 killed, 52 injured by bombing of Mahaneh Yehuda market
20 May 1970 12 killed, 19 injured (mostly children) in attack on school bus with three bazooka rockets
30 May 1972 26 killed (including 20 Puerto Ricans), 78 injured in attack with guns and grenades at Ben Gurion Airport; two terrorists also killed
11 Apr 1974 18 killed (including 8 children), 16 injured in attack by three terrorists on residential building in Qiryat Shemona
15 May 1974 27 killed, 134 injured in attack on Ma'alot; terrorists killed 2 people in initial attack and took 90 children hostage; most casualties were inflicted by the terrorists during a rescue attempt in which 20 children and 1 soldier were killed (along with all three terrorists)
6 Mar 1975 11 killed, 12 injured (seven terrorists also killed) in Tel Aviv attack: terrorists land by two boats on a Tel Aviv beach, fire at cars and soldiers, killing 2 soldiers; terrorists then seize a hotel which is stormed by Israeli troops at 0530; explosions kill 1 hostage, 1 soldier and 6 terrorists; 6 hostages and 1 terrorist are injured
4 Jul 1975 13 killed (including 2 children), 72 injured (including 2 Americans) in bombing at Zion Square in Jerusalem; bomb was in an abandoned refrigerator on a sidewalk surrounded by pre-Sabbath shopping crowds
11 Mar 1978 43 killed (including 1 American), 72 injured in shooting attack on Tel Aviv beach; thirteen terrorists land by boat on beach near Tel Aviv and seize a bus, engaging police in gun battle during which bus explodes (nine terrorists also killed)
6 Jul 1989 16 killed (including 1 American), 27 injured when terrorist forces a bus off a road into a ravine
25 Feb 1994 39 killed (all Palestinians), 250 injured in shooting attack at Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron
19 Oct 1994 22 killed (including one Dutch), 75 injured by suicide bombing (one terrorist killed) on bus in Tel-Aviv
25 Dec 1994 12 killed (1 American), 13 injured in suicide bombing at bus stop in Jerusalem
22 Jan 1995 19 killed (including 18 soldiers), 69 injured by two separate suicide bombers (both terrorists killed) at the Beit Lid junction near Netanya
25 Feb 1996 26 killed (including 9 soldiers and 3 Americans), 80 injured (including 3 Americans) by two suicide bombings on buses in Jerusalem; first bombing killed 23 (including 3 Americans) and injured at least 50; second bombing 30 minutes later killed 3, injured at least 25
3 Mar 1996 19 killed (including 3 soldiers, 1 Ethopian, and 7 Romanians), 7 injured by suicide bombing (one terrorist killed) on bus in Jerusalem; one of the Romanians died on 9 Mar of wounds
4 Mar 1996 14 killed (including 1 soldier), 163 injured (including 2 Americans) by suicide bombing at Dizengoff Center in Tel-Aviv
30 Jul 1997 16 killed (including 1 American), 178 injured (including 2 Americans) by two suicide bombings in Mahane Yehuda market in Jerusalem; three of those killed died subsequently of wounds (on 11 Aug, 29 Aug, 3 Oct)
1 Jun 2001 21 killed (including 1 Ukrainian), 120 injured in suicide bombing outside a disco in Tel Aviv (4 of those killed died the following days of injuries)
9 Aug 2001 15 killed (including 7 children, 1 American, and 1 Brazilian), 130 injured in suicide bombing at Sbarro pizzeria in Jerusalem
1 Dec 2001 11 killed (including 1 who died 8 Dec), 180 injured by two suicide bombings at Ben Yehuda pedestrian mall in Jerusalem
2 Dec 2001 15 killed (including 1 from the Philippines), 40 injured by suicide bombing on bus in Haifa
12 Dec 2001 11 killed (one who died 25 Mar 2002), 30 injured in attack on bus and several cars near Emmanuel
2 Mar 2002 10 killed (including 6 children), over 50 injured by suicide bomber in Orthodox neighborhood of Jerusalem; the terrorist detonated the bomb next to a group of women with baby carriages outside a synagogue
3 Mar 2002 10 killed (including 7 soldiers) in shooting attack near Ofra
9 Mar 2002 11 killed, 54 injured by suicide bombing in crowded cafe in Jerusalem
27 Mar 2002 27 killed, 140 injured in suicide bombing at Park Hotel in Netanya, during Passover
31 Mar 2002 15 killed, over 40 injured in suicide bombing (one terrorist also killed) at restaurant in Haifa
9 Apr 2002 13 soldiers killed, 7 others injured by booby-trap bomb and subsequent shooting attack during counter-terrorism operations
07 May 2002 15 killed and 55 injured in suicide bombing (one terrorist also killed) which caused partial collapse of game club in Rishon-Lezion
5 Jun 2002 17 killed (including 13 soldiers and 1 civilian teenager) and 38 injured by a suicide car bombing (one terrorist also killed) attack on a bus at the Megiddo junction near Afula
18 Jun 2002 19 killed (including 1 child and 1 teenager) and 74 injured (including many students) by a suicide bomber (one terrorist also killed) attack on a bus in Jerusalem
21 Oct 2002 14 killed, 50 injured (including several soldiers) by suicide car bombers (two terrorists also killed) attacking a bus
15 Nov 2002 12 killed (including 9 soldiers), 15 injured in shooting attack in Hebron (3 terrorists also killed)
21 Nov 2002 11 killed (including 4 children and 1 Romanian), 50 injured in suicide bombing on bus in Jerusalem
5 Jan 2003 23 killed, 120 injured by two suicide bombers (both terrorists also killed) who detonated bombs about 30 seconds apart near Central Bus Station, Tel-Aviv; those killed included 15 Israelis (1 soldier), 3 Chinese citizens (1 died 13 Jan), 2 Romanian citizens, 1 Ukranian, 1 citizen of Ghana, and 1 Bulgarian
5 Mar 2003 17 killed (including 1 child, 8 teenagers, and 2 soldiers), 53 injured by suicide bombing (one terrorist also killed) on bus in Haifa en route to Haifa University; of those killed, one died 8 Mar, one died 11 Mar
11 Jun 2003 17 killed (including 1 soldier, 1 citizen of Eritrea, and 1 Israeli who died 12 Jun), over 100 injured by suicide bombing on bus in Jerusalem
19 Aug 2003 (2100) 23 killed (including 2 infants--one American--3 children, 3 teenagers, and 1 Philippino, also 1 Israeli who died 23 Aug, 1 who died 5 Sep, and 1 who died 12 Sep), 133 injured in suicide bombing in Jerusalem on bus filled with Jewish worshippers
4 Oct 2003 21 killed (including 1 who died of injuries 9 Oct., 1 who died 15 Oct., and 4 children), 60 injured by suicide bombing in a restaurant in Haifa
29 Jan 2004 11 killed (including 1 Ethiopian), over 50 injured in suicide bombing (one terrorist also killed) on bus in Jerusalem
14 Mar 2004 10 killed, 16 injured in twin suicide bombings (5 killed immediately by first explosion, second explosion killed 3 immediately and fatally injured 2) (two terrorists also killed) at the port of Ashdod; the terrorists may have intended to reach chemical storage facilities
31 Aug 2004 (1500) 16 killed (including 1 child), 100 injured in twin suicide bombings on two buses in Beersheba; explosions occurred minutes apart after both buses left the same bus stop; some passengers, hearing the first explosion, succeeding in escaping the second bus before the second explosion"

If you want to see the ENTIRE list of terrorist acts against innocent Israelis---I will be happy to provide the link. AND this does not count the numerous military attacks by MANY Islamic countries on Israel. Show those pictures and voice the same indignition that you express in support of a terrorist organization that started the whole thing.

War IS hell and remember--Israel DID NOT START IT.

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terr...errisrael.html

Lee

Hahahaha, those are all Palestinians attacks on Israel. Lee you keep mixing that muslims are divided into Sunnites and Shiites.
Hamas and El Quaeda (Sunnties) are both using terrorists attacks through bombing themselves and mingling between civilians to cause the maximum damage. I know recently (well yesterday as we were discussing) from a muslim sheikh, that such acts are never considered as Jihad in Islam. It does not convey to Muhammad's teachings. This act is deemed as terrorist in nature even from Muslims.

The true Jihad is fighting your ennemy such as Hizbullah is doing right now and not suicide bombing him. It seems you are mislead in the info you are giving, thus the good folks of this forum are also mislead. I suggest you read more and more about religions (JEWISH, CHRISTIANITY, MUSLIM SUNNITE/SHIITE) just to get to the essence of things, or you could read what I am typing because all the info I am giving are OBJECTIVE and TRUE. You can always ask any Muslim or Lebanese about any thing I am posting here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WGJ

of exactly what's wrong with the Middle East. Keeping score going back to 1954 as a rationale for murdering COMPLETELY INNOCENT CHILDREN is an apocryphal example of justifying this "conflict" and a suberb example of some seriously sick and twisted "reasoning". Are these children being killed a priori, before they can grow up to become terrorist? The Nazi's killed Jewish children precisely because they would grow up to be Jews. What's the difference? Although not masterfully articulated, since this is his second language, Danny made a powerful and totally valid point. If it is the case that the Israelis are simply exercising the sound military strategy of "The best defense is a good offense." there is no reason for them to not be much more careful of where they drop their bombs, 180 mm cannon shells and rockets. This indiscriminate slaughter of innocents is amoral and in violation of the Geneva Convention. I'm ashamed that the US has not pressed hard for a cease fire.

The Major reaches the Israelis have done so far:
- Attacking civilians in their vehicules.
- Attacking Ambulances on roads (And let me say Christian ambulances because I know Lee will say: well they are sending katyuchas in those trucks, well never will Christians do that for Hizbullah).
- Attacking TV stations.
- Attacking UN posts!!! (3rd was 2 days ago , and 257 UN observed killed in Lebanon because of Israel!!!!)
I can expect such acts to come from an Inorganized militia (I admit that, like Hizbullah if you want), but an organized army doing those... that does not seem logical.
One point I would like to stress as WGJ did, why is the US still backing Israel? Can we say Iran is controlling Hizbullah or USA is controlling Israel?? )

I realize Hezbollah is hiding behind the civilian population (I do not deny this, it is correct). How better to demonize the Jews than to have them seen as terrorists in the eyes of much of the world, in an iniquitous and apocryphal justification of Hezbollah , Syria and Iran's position that Israel must be "wiped off the map." (Syrian and Iran are not saying they want to wipe off Israel from the map, rather extremists like Hamas and El Quaeda are saying this).

Meanwhile the methods of both sides come closer and closer, to more and more indiscriminate murdering of more Jews and more Arabs until it becomes a war of numbers on a massive scale, a sick contest of "We killed more of you than you killed of us today", on and on, ad infinitum, ad nauseaum.
Hezbollah started this stupidly and Isreal went for it (correct, this is Hizbullah fault in this war but Israel's reaction do not seem logical in any sense)...but there must be a better method to engage Hezbollah without so much "collateral damage".(Correct!!! Hizbullah can only be defeated internally and never externally, neither trough US and Israel nor through Iran or Syria. The only way he hands over his weapons is through not giving him any reason anymore to carry those weapons! This can be achieved through Israel withdrawal from Lebanese territories and prisoners exchange.. then the concept of resistance no longer applies to Hizbullah, now it became purely Outlaw Lebanese Militia... Finally some sense in this war)

Given Hezbollah's method of hidding in Mosques, etc can they be rooted out by ground troops? What about a border filled with an international armed force?
Surely there is a better way?

WGJ

Check the Bolds ^^^