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  #1  
Old 08-13-2007, 08:16 AM
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Sand Rail Turbo Build

This is a continuation of the discussion that started on Tom's engine build up threat "Engine Build Progress and Questions". This thread will continue the discussion of my past experiances and current build and my love hate relationship with the SVX. Here's the orignal picture posted in Tom's thread.
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File Type: jpg GDB04.jpg (218.8 KB, 408 views)
File Type: jpg P1010050.JPG (663.8 KB, 420 views)
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  #2  
Old 08-13-2007, 08:30 AM
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The Teardown

Here's some info from the final teardown as well as some responses to some of the questions posed. The teardown did not reveal any clear sign of a catasrophic head gasket failure. I inspected the cometics carefully and did not see any burn thru. However, because the cometics are a sandwich 4 layers of material with the inner layers metal, its hard to tell if the exhaust was slipping by the metal layers. I tried some new radiator/block sealer which had the consistency of fine pea soup. One theory is that a head lifted momentarily and alowed some of the filler to wedge between the layers causing the leak. We amy never know. The block bores look great. I'll have my machinist sonic check the bores to be sure.
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File Type: jpg P1010011.JPG (662.9 KB, 317 views)
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  #3  
Old 08-13-2007, 08:43 AM
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ARP Head Studs

For those who asked, I bought the studs from ARP about two years ago. At first I was told that they would have to be custom and they would be expensive. I took all the measurements and called back. The guy I talked to remembered putting a set together for someone else. He put together a set and shipped them out. 300 bucks or so. When I called recently to try to get another set made in 14mm, they said they had no record of my sale and it would have to be custom order. I remebered talking to John at Outback Motorsports about trying to solve the head sealing problems and he suggested 1/2 studs as they run them on their big boost 4 cylinder motors. He also mentioned that he had a used set for an SVX. I called him last week and he still had them so I bought them. They should arive today. When you look at the 11mm bolts, they are pretty weak looking. The guys that run the STi's with 37 RWHP are doing so with 14mm bolts. Of course the block has to be re-tapped and the heads drilled. Here's picks of the ARP studs.
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Old 08-13-2007, 08:53 AM
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Pistons and Rods

Here's the pistons and rods. I'm using Pauter rods and Wisco pistons. These pistons are about eight years old now. The Pauter rods are works of art. I pulled one rod and the bearing looks good. I think I will try some of the coated bearings though. The rod bearings are the weak link for sure. These are set up right in the middle of the recomended clearance. Heres some pics of the pistons too and a side shot of stock piston that failed.
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File Type: jpg P1010013.JPG (612.5 KB, 308 views)
File Type: jpg P1010014.JPG (611.4 KB, 296 views)
File Type: jpg P1010017.JPG (603.6 KB, 290 views)
File Type: jpg P1010018.JPG (581.4 KB, 277 views)
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  #5  
Old 08-13-2007, 09:00 AM
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Here's the rods

Here's a few pics of the rods.
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File Type: jpg P1010031.JPG (695.3 KB, 258 views)
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  #6  
Old 08-13-2007, 09:37 AM
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Chuck D

I'd love to trade programs but for two problems: 1) mine is the old DOS program and 2) my program and back-up disc are with the laptap which is in the possesion of the guy who stole it. So, If I lose my program I'm back to square one. As far as losing spark above 10 psi, never been a problem for me. The Redline motors I know of were using Motech with the stock coils. I know Redline is a Motech dealer so I'm surprised they would even be fooling with a TecII. I though about the Darton sleeve aproach but its expensive. Check out AXIS Motorsports website. They have some cool pics of sleeved blocks. The Belzona material is about a 300 bucks. If it doesn't work, I have another block. I hope to be working on the block this weekend and will post some pics of the closure procedure.
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  #7  
Old 08-13-2007, 09:53 AM
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Significant Technical Input
Probably better to move this to the turbo sub forum. People are already frequently presuming Tom works for ECUtune because of his engine build thread in a sub forum called ecutune projects. He just put it there because most of the parts he is using are from ECUtune.
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  #8  
Old 08-13-2007, 10:27 AM
RSVX RSVX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longassname
Probably better to move this to the turbo sub forum. People are already frequently presuming Tom works for ECUtune because of his engine build thread in a sub forum called ecutune projects. He just put it there because most of the parts he is using are from ECUtune.
Done.
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  #9  
Old 08-13-2007, 11:08 AM
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Your post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom00799
Here's the pistons and rods. I'm using Pauter rods and Wisco pistons. These pistons are about eight years old now. The Pauter rods are works of art. I pulled one rod and the bearing looks good. I think I will try some of the coated bearings though. The rod bearings are the weak link for sure. These are set up right in the middle of the recomended clearance. Heres some pics of the pistons too and a side shot of stock piston that failed.
My piston failed the same way. Not quite as catostrophic as yours. It looks like you lost two lands. Your pistons look like they have anti detonation rings and a gas port on the compression land. Looks like a good design. Next time you might want to stay on the high side of the recommended rod bearing clearance.
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  #10  
Old 08-13-2007, 11:12 AM
cdigerlando cdigerlando is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom00799
For those who asked, I bought the studs from ARP about two years ago. At first I was told that they would have to be custom and they would be expensive. I took all the measurements and called back. The guy I talked to remembered putting a set together for someone else. He put together a set and shipped them out. 300 bucks or so. When I called recently to try to get another set made in 14mm, they said they had no record of my sale and it would have to be custom order. I remebered talking to John at Outback Motorsports about trying to solve the head sealing problems and he suggested 1/2 studs as they run them on their big boost 4 cylinder motors. He also mentioned that he had a used set for an SVX. I called him last week and he still had them so I bought them. They should arive today. When you look at the 11mm bolts, they are pretty weak looking. The guys that run the STi's with 37 RWHP are doing so with 14mm bolts. Of course the block has to be re-tapped and the heads drilled. Here's picks of the ARP studs.
I wish we knew about Outback motorsports a few weeks ago. How about ARP. No record of a sale. I also sent them all of my measurements. They were not helpful at all. I spoke with my builder, I think I should have gone over his head. He deals with a lady over their. I remember getting a concerned e-mail from her regarding whether or not I was being helped. Since Mike is now on it I'll let him deal with it. Hopefully the price is right.
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2002 Subaru Impreza WRX- Turboxs stg3 & Susp. Mods
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  #11  
Old 08-13-2007, 11:22 AM
cdigerlando cdigerlando is offline
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Tuning

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom00799
I'd love to trade programs but for two problems: 1) mine is the old DOS program and 2) my program and back-up disc are with the laptap which is in the possesion of the guy who stole it. So, If I lose my program I'm back to square one. As far as losing spark above 10 psi, never been a problem for me. The Redline motors I know of were using Motech with the stock coils. I know Redline is a Motech dealer so I'm surprised they would even be fooling with a TecII. I though about the Darton sleeve aproach but its expensive. Check out AXIS Motorsports website. They have some cool pics of sleeved blocks. The Belzona material is about a 300 bucks. If it doesn't work, I have another block. I hope to be working on the block this weekend and will post some pics of the closure procedure.
If you PM me your e-mail address I'll send you my program. I'm not sure but I don't think the file would be that different between the DOS and the Windows version (??). Either way I could load a DOS version to look at it if need be. Do you have a laptop so you could upload the existing program to another computer, before you loose backup power? You should do this right away. The tuning for this motor is weird and it would suck even more than the loss of your laptop to have to redo the tune.

You may be right about Redline. I do remember them using Motec. Its been a long time since I have talked to them. No one on this site has had spark problems with the stock coils though, so maybe this was an EGT issue instead of a spark issue.

Thanks for all of your pics and experience. I'm at a loss for what could be happening as well. I did have some blowby issues, but I attributed them to ring land issues. It will be interesting to see how much the 14mm bolts help.

Thanks
Chuck D.
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  #12  
Old 08-14-2007, 10:50 AM
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Tom,

I would like to email you to discuss a few things about your setup. I have a single turbo EG33, and would like to talk, My email is Phillip.Gantz@Gmail.com

Thanks!,
Phil
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  #13  
Old 08-14-2007, 01:27 PM
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ARP Head Studs

I just got the 1/2 inch studs from Outback and I'm not real happy with them. I'll be checking with ARP on 14mm studs. The more I order, the cheaper the price. Anyone interested, let me know.
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Old 08-14-2007, 04:13 PM
cdigerlando cdigerlando is offline
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Bolts

I would, but I'm verbally committed to getting 11mm studs at this point. Unless everyone wants 14mm and we switch gears as a group, I don't want to leave anyone stranded. 1 offs with ARP seem difficult to do. I would not deal with Chris R if you want to get them done. I sent him all of my measurements (which I can also e-mail you) and he did nothing with them. Really poor service. Mike is looking at doing ARP 2000 studs or Inconel head bolts. Inconel is much stronger. The question is would the threads hold up under stress at that point. That is the advantage of the bigger bolt. You get a lot more thread length. I would suggest that you jump in with us on the group buy for the 11s if you are sending back the 14 mm bolts. Perhaps we can stress using inconel instead due to your experience losing coolant. Inconel is very expensive though. Have you ever found the leak? Where is the coolant comming from externally or is it going into your oil?

I felt that your thread was good in the built motor forum. I didn't think it was necessary to move it. Nice buggy pics by the way!
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  #15  
Old 08-14-2007, 05:31 PM
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Arp

ARP is hit and miss depending on who picks up the phone. I let you know in the next day or so as to my efforts. I did have a set of ARP 2000 studs made for an ls1 v8 and the svx studs I have now look like ARP 2000 material. I think larger 14mm bolts will transalate to more claming force. The 11mm bolts were torqued to 72 ft pounds per ARP's instructions. I believe Axis or one of the other vendors or 14mm bolts for the four bangers recomends 80 ft. pounds. That should hold things down.
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