Some Subaru History Facts

I would simply like to add that I view the horizontally opposed engine format to be superior and I will explain why I think so. The pistons power stroke being traded back and forth between banks just seems to make more sense to me when dealing w/ momentum of moving parts. I know all dual bank engines do this but the fact that each pair of pistons in an H6 fires 180* from each other seems to make more sense to me.

...and they sound sexy. People just associate Ferrari w/ sexy I think.

I hate working on the EG33 but at the same time I love the engine in all it's over engineered greatness.


(why did there have to be an overwhelmingly interesting thread that I find in the last hour of work. I'll be leaving late since I just read the entire thing. )

[SVX-FF]

Originally Posted by PA_SVX

...Nakajima did not design the Zero fighter of WWII. It was a Mitsubishi A6M, US code name "Zeke"....

You ar correct, I went back and reread the artical and misread the Type 97, made by Nakajima, to be the "Zero" fighter, made by Mitsubishi.

Nakajima Aircraft Industries History

Here is my source and ther is a lot if interesting infomation. Also how the company Fuji Heavy Industries came about.

Steve

[svxxx26]

Originally Posted by PA_SVX

Nakajima also built Japan's first jet powered fighter, the Kikka, which bore a strong resemblance to the Messerschmitt Me-262. WWII aircraft is an obsession of mine.

Yes - there was a show on the History Channel recently that talked about that, and yes it was very similar looking to the Me-262. Interesting story.

[svxxx26]

Speaking of Subaru 6-cylinders, does anyone know the lineage of the 3.0 six in the Outback, in relation to the EG33? Is it the same engine with different displacement or a totally different deal? I know one difference is the 3.0 uses a timing chain or chains as opposed to a belt.

[Bobb]

Hi Steve, That was quite interesting. I don't know if it is the same plant, but the SVXs were made in a plant in Gunma. How appropriate with the aircraft style windows. Take care, BOBB

P/S You never get to much information. "B"

[Bobb]

Hi Jerry, It is an all new design, made to be very compact. The six is only about an inch longer than the fours. Take care, BOBB

[oab_au]

I have just found and read the thread too. A lot of coverage of design, ballance and packaging. These are the design perameters that all designers face. There is no mistery to obtaing power, given a piston, and a four valve head, about the same power can be obtained, regardless of lay out.

The main problems facing the designers are smoothness and packaging. All the designs have there advantages and disadvantages. the engines that are easy to package, like the V6, dont have the best smoothness, they need extra gear to smooth the viabrations. The V8 has a better ballance, as all 90 deg V engines have. They have perfict primary ballance, but a small secondary out of ballance, as does the flat twin.

The only design that I know of that has perfect ballance, is the old 90 deg V twins that had a 'knife and fork' big end assemble, that were used by Harley and Indian. This design allows the two cylinders to be on the same center line, to prevent the secondary out of ballance that the modern V twin has. The Ducati 90deg V twin has the cylinders offset to allow the two big ends to lay side by side. on the one crank throw This ensures a more robust assemble, at the cost of a small secondary out of ballance. The V twin allways has a piston moving. When one piston is stopped at the end of its stroke, the other piston is half way up the stroke travelling at maximum speed.

The flat twin is in the same class, the cylinders are offset more than the V twin, because the two rods have to run on seperate crank throws. The primary forces are cancelled out, but the secondary forces are greater.

This brings us to our engine. The four cylinder has the primarys cancelled, and because the secondarys of each pair of cylinders are located further apart, they have less effect than the twin. Unfortunatly like the twin, all the pistons stop together. This produces the characteristic thumping that is noticed on the fours. In the 6 cylinder, when the front set of pistons are stopped, the other two sets are still traveling, so the thumping problem is cured. The secondary out of ballences, are further reduced by the longer crank.

So its allways a toss up as to which design is used, an easily packaged V6, with its inherent ballance problems, or the almost perfict ballanced flat 6 with its inherent package problems.

Harvey.

[Ron Mummert]

Originally Posted by immortal_suby

exactly.
a perfectly balanced engine.

try setting a full glass of wine on GM's 3800 v6 while it's running and see how quickly Ron can grab it before it spills.

Which is why I prefer boxer wine. Stirred, not shaken.

Ron.

[Ron Mummert]

We haven't even mentioned the W-block, square-block, swashplate type, opposed piston, Deltic, or oddities such as the NR-750's eight valves per cylinder and two rods per piston. Plus there's Wankels, two-strokes, diesels, turbines, Sterlings, steam, and on and on. Somebody should start an engine zoo before Jay Leno gets the idea and hoards them all to himself.[/QUOTE]



One more.

Until I visited an auto museum in Sacramento, I'd never heard of the Sleeve Valve engine, a creation used by Willys Overland, Benz, & others in the early 1900's. Imagine an engine whose compression improves as it ages. It's worth a Google for those interested.

What's an opposed piston design? I'm wondering if it's close to something I've had on the imaginary drawing board for many years.

Ron (Rube Goldberg skool of Design alumni).

Originally Posted by Tofu

3000 (???ez30) - EZ30R. DOHC 24 valve, with Porsche licensed Variocam Plus heads that offer variable valve lift, also with AVCS, Subaru designed variable cam phasing. Powers some Legacy GT models, and the upcoming Tribeca.

This powers some Outback wagons and sedans, but not the GT.




Dave

[benebob]

Originally Posted by red95svx

This powers some Outback wagons and sedans, but not the GT.




Dave

Since Subaru's too dumb to know what GT means . I'd take the 6 over any turbo 4 anyday!

Originally Posted by benebob

Since Subaru's too dumb to know what GT means . I'd take the 6 over any turbo 4 anyday!

Even the STI 4?




Dave

[benebob]

Originally Posted by red95svx

Even the STI 4?




Dave

Especially the STI 4, it isn't even legal for Prorally plus it is in one of the most hideous Subaru bodies on the planet. Impreza's stopped looking good after the RS turned into an economy car. Now the real legacy turbo from back in the day. I'd love that! Will have that just as soon as my mom gets a new car.

[svxxx26]

[QUOTE=oab_au]This brings us to our engine. The four cylinder has the primarys cancelled, and because the secondarys of each pair of cylinders are located further apart, they have less effect than the twin. Unfortunatly like the twin, all the pistons stop together. This produces the characteristic thumping that is noticed on the fours. In the 6 cylinder, when the front set of pistons are stopped, the other two sets are still traveling, so the thumping problem is cured. The secondary out of ballences, are further reduced by the longer crank.QUOTE]

Fascinating. I always wondered about the "thumping" sound. I kind of like it though

[UberRoo]

Originally Posted by Ron Mummert

One more.
...Sleeve Valve engine...

What's an opposed piston design? I'm wondering if it's close to something I've had on the imaginary drawing board for many years.

Yes, the sleeve valve is another great oddity.

Opposed piston engines have two crankshafts and no cylinder head. Instead, two pistons share a cylinder and move towards and away from each other. As far as I know, this design has only been used on two-stroke diesels. The Deltic engine is basically the same thing, except rather than using one simple cylinder, three cylinders are joined together and three pistons (with three crankshafts) meet in the center.

I left out rotary engines from my list. No, not Wankles. Rotaries. A rotary engine is basically a radial engine except the crankshaft is fastened to the airplane and the propeller is fastened to the engine block. ...so basically the whole engine turns. Needless to say, flying an airplane with a giant gyroscope on the front was an interesting experience for anyone crazy enough to fly one of those kindling contraptions.

I might also mention that some home built helicopters use domestic V-eight engines. With some aircraft, tremendous power is important. Gas turbines fill this need, but not affordably. Some time ago a group of people built a replica aircraft that used two domestic V-eights. The original plane was intended to circumnavigate the globe, but failed. The giant iron power plants were chosen because they closely approximated the original engines. As I recall, the replica came very close to succeeding on its mission, but ultimately failed because their highly-trained, highly-experienced aircraft engine mechanic was a moron. They landed in the middle of nowhere and the mechanic spent all day fixing some elementary problem that any redneck backyard mechanic could fix with a roll of duct tape in about two minutes. I think he eventually set the plane on fire before the native bush people could show him how to set the distributor timing.