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[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by Yodadad3000

Hi, I'm Patrick Hogan and recently inherited an SVX from my son. I've posted
once about my son's demise and his great appreciation of SVX's and this
community. So now I have his (second) well used SVX with 159000 miles
and loads of leaks. valve covers, cam seals, power steering to name the
worse. My delema is; do I find a mechanic & fix this engine or have someone
swap in the SVX engine that is hanging in my haybarn. It has fewer miles
but who knows how many leaks &/or other issues. Anyone know a good
mechanic anywhere near Albuquerque? I live 3 hours north of Albuquerque
and have a totally dismantled '92 SVX plus this one (also "92) that runs
great, looks OK but smokes like a chimney.

Hi Patrick

Good to see you on the boards again, even if it is with problems!! I hope all the family are well, and your hearts are healing like Michael will want them to.

Leaks are normal at that mileage. Eric is right. You have a lower mileage engine. Buy a seal kit for it, and do it up real nice. Then you only have to pull out the higher mileage one, and drop in the new, properly sealed one.

A couple of words of advice; it may be advisable when doing the job on the spare engine to also consider the EGR, the exhaust recirculation valve. When they get older, they can get blocked or stuffed up. This causes unwanted pressure in the crankcase. A natural fallout from this will be oil forced through the older seals. They [EGR valves] are not too expensive to fix, you can get advice on here about these regular jobs. Read through the How-To section above top right.

The second bit of advice, you mentioned burning oil, and you mentioned leaking power steering. Leaking pipes on the high pressure side of the power steering are a regular thing. When it happens, it often sprays oil onto the cats or exhaust. As you might expect, this burns off as smoke. Not too desirable. I would respectfully suggest you look into this problem first, while you have the leaky engine in the car and it is running.

See where the power steering pipes or seals are leaking now, and fix them first. Otherwise they would still be there, still leaking and still creating smoke after you have installed your new engine.

Best of luck with it,

Joe

PS. If it was my engine, I would also replace the water pump before fitting it, and I would use a new timing belt. I would not bother replacing the tensioners though. They don't break or wear out.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by svxistentialist

PS. I would not bother replacing the tensioners though. They don't break or wear out.

Joe,

I am not trying to be controversial, but rather am trying to sort out what is an interesting and important issue. On what grounds do you make this statement? In this part of the world reliable repair establishments, will not guarantee a cam belt job, unless the tensioner is replaced.

When mine was done, I had a long conversation with the mechanic involved, who is well known to me. He was absolutely emphatic, based on his confirmed experience. The mechanical ins and outs, involving wear and tear, were also demonstrated to me.

Cheers, Trevor.

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by Trevor

Joe,

I am not trying to be controversial, but rather am trying to sort out what is an interesting and important issue. On what grounds do you make this statement? In this part of the world reliable repair establishments, will not guarantee a cam belt job, unless the tensioner is replaced.

When mine was done, I had a long conversation with the mechanic involved, who is well known to me. He was absolutely emphatic, based on his confirmed experience. The mechanical ins and outs, involving wear and tear, were also demonstrated to me.

Cheers, Trevor.

Who could suspect you of being controversial Trevor? With a signature like yours??

I stated it as what my opinion was, what I'd do with my engine.

As you point out, it does not surprise me that mechanics in your part of the world insist on renewed tensioners. Like mechanics everywhere, they are part of the business, the industry. An industry that survives on selling us parts at inflated prices. Now if your mechanic was talking about tensioners on a Renault, I would believe him and replace them, they are crap.

And if the service manager said replace the rear wheel bearings at 100K miles on the SVX, I would believe him also. We know what they are like. OEM rear bearings are under-engineered on the SVX for the job in hand from the factory, and fail regularly.

OEM tensioners on Subaru engines are over-engineered, and do not normally fail within the life of the engine. I learned this from Graham, who has worked on building EJ20 engines in all stages of tune since before Subaru became WRC famous.

However, if while changing the timing belt the tensioner pulleys feel loose or worn, use your better judgment. My point was you probably will not need to.

Plus of course, nowhere in the service manual does it state that the tensioner pulleys need to be replaced at any specified mileage.

That would be the grounds on which I made that statement.

Joe

[Trevor]

Joe,

Be sure that I, nor Kiwis in general, are silly/stupid enough to be taken in without suspicion, by a mechanic trying to increase the bottom line on a job.

The tensioner cost me NZ$72.44. This would have added NZ$15.00 maximum in profit. Far more than this was spent in time, explainlng and demonstrating what was involved. The bill for the total job undertaken was, NZ $1,029.90.

I have known those involved long enough, to be certain that they are wise to the extent, that they value of integrity, ethics, good will, and prospective business on a commercial basis. $15,OO

The transmission outfit which fitted my oil cooler, talked their way out of a filter to add to their bottom line on, the basis of what they considered my best interests. Perhaps there is more integrity on offer down here.

Edit P.S. In point of fact the basic reason for my post was to secure confirmation regarding your statement -- "They don't break or wear out." On what grounds are you able to be sure?

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by Trevor

Joe,

Edit P.S. In point of fact the basic reason for my post was to secure confirmation regarding your statement -- "They don't break or wear out." On what grounds are you able to be sure?

Trevor, I've no doubt people on your side of the world are not foolish with their money, and it would not surprise me if there is more integrity in the trade Down Under.

My experience is with Ireland and England, and it has taught me to be cautious. Here, they regard the motorist, particularly one without knowledge, as a sacrificial "lamb", i.e. they screw us. "Used car salesman" is a pejorative term up here in these isles, and a common term to describe dealer attitude is "they want all the money".

So am I biased against the trade? Yes. I have been screwed once or twice too often by them, and I'm nobody's fool. Has any mechanic gone out of his way with time or explanations to help me? Lots of times, they are not all bad. It is just safer to assume they are liable to put the boot in on price because of how they go about their business.

I explained the grounds for my statement that they don't normally wear.

You ask how can I be sure. There is no way of being sure with any component regards failure, there is always a distribution of failed items vs good items in any system. When the cycle is virtuous and the components are well or over-engineered, then experience with many engines and many components will allow an opinion they are unlikely to fail.

You did not mention the Workshop Manual. You have a copy, and so do I. Does it mention anywhere in your manual a particular mileage or a particular age or a major service interval at which it is advised to replace the tensioner pulleys?

Joe

[Trevor]

Joe,

You have not advised what facts you have available, to warrant your definite statement, “They don't break or wear out.” However I now note that you contend that your statement was/is no more than an opinion.

My concern, as always, was that members could be given incorrect advice to their disadvantage.

When doing a cam belt change there are many items which as a sensible precaution, should be replaced. None are mentioned within the manuals, so that I am unable to accept your argument. In this context you mention “tensioner pulleys,” which raises doubts as to whether you appreciate the exact complexity of the adjuster unit, and the opportunity for wear, tear and it seizing up.

You contend that the tensioner will remain serviceable for a period of two specified cam belt changes. This does not present a sensible wager, on the basis of evidence presented to me, so that I wish the best of luck.

Cheers, Trevor.

[Yodadad3000]

Originally Posted by svxistentialist

Hi Patrick

Good to see you on the boards again, even if it is with problems!! I hope all the family are well, and your hearts are healing like Michael will want them to.

Leaks are normal at that mileage. Eric is right. You have a lower mileage engine. Buy a seal kit for it, and do it up real nice. Then you only have to pull out the higher mileage one, and drop in the new, properly sealed one.

A couple of words of advice; it may be advisable when doing the job on the spare engine to also consider the EGR, the exhaust recirculation valve. When they get older, they can get blocked or stuffed up. This causes unwanted pressure in the crankcase. A natural fallout from this will be oil forced through the older seals. They [EGR valves] are not too expensive to fix, you can get advice on here about these regular jobs. Read through the How-To section above top right.

The second bit of advice, you mentioned burning oil, and you mentioned leaking power steering. Leaking pipes on the high pressure side of the power steering are a regular thing. When it happens, it often sprays oil onto the cats or exhaust. As you might expect, this burns off as smoke. Not too desirable. I would respectfully suggest you look into this problem first, while you have the leaky engine in the car and it is running.

See where the power steering pipes or seals are leaking now, and fix them first. Otherwise they would still be there, still leaking and still creating smoke after you have installed your new engine.

Best of luck with it,

Joe

PS. If it was my engine, I would also replace the water pump before fitting it, and I would use a new timing belt. I would not bother replacing the tensioners though. They don't break or wear out.

Joe
Thanks for all this good advice. So starting with fixing the power steering leak. what to do? The dealer wanted US 660 to repair that leak
alone. I'm sure there is a cheaper option on that repair. And for the record
all the smoke is pouring out from under the svx when parked, not from the
exhaust pipes. Could this be Steering fluid burning on exhaust parts?
I might be willing to spend 660 if that's my primary smoke issue since the thing is still sitting at a dealer 3 hours away from where I live.
Advice? Thanks.

pat

[It's Just Eric]

. Personaly, I would not bother replacing the tensioners though. They don't normally break or wear out.

Fixed your post Joe. Now its undebatable, seeing as it is more clearly an opinion. some people read things too literally

and patrick....if you were planning of swapping motors and engine seals and all that...why not tackle the power steering leak yourself too? Its a matter of folliwing the hoses, disconnecting them at the ends, and replacing them. Also, for good measure, there's the o-ring you can replace in the resivior.
My advice...coming from a guy who HAS swapped motors and fixed a power steering leak (in a dirt driveway none the less)....Start the car, and have someone turn the steering wheel. Look at all the lines, look at all the connections, and try to find that leak. It helps if you clean them, up a bit fist (Plus while doing that youll likely find an indication of where its coming from) Replace the leaky section. I will forwarn you, it gets a little tight in the back towards the steering rack...if you really REALY want to, you can fix the leak when the motor is out. In fact, if your car has the hardline under the intake manifold rather than the soft line next to it....you'll probly want to

-Eric

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by It's Just Eric

Fixed your post Joe. Now its undebatable, seeing as it is more clearly an opinion. some people read things too literally

-Eric

Some people might all right

Thanks for the edit Eric. It would have been a better way to phrase it in hindsight.

I don't actually disagree with Trevor. If you have everything stripped and are doing a thorough job, it makes sense to replace wear and tear items while they are accessible. Particularly if they are inexpensive.

My point was they will probably be good as new unless the mileage is very high.

Joe

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by Yodadad3000

Joe
Thanks for all this good advice. So starting with fixing the power steering leak. what to do? The dealer wanted US 660 to repair that leak
alone. I'm sure there is a cheaper option on that repair. And for the record
all the smoke is pouring out from under the svx when parked, not from the
exhaust pipes. Could this be Steering fluid burning on exhaust parts?
I might be willing to spend 660 if that's my primary smoke issue since the thing is still sitting at a dealer 3 hours away from where I live.
Advice? Thanks.

pat

Patrick, I concur totally with the advice that Eric has posted. You could probably do this fix yourself. There is enough information on here to tell you how.

Ask the dealer what parts exactly are they replacing for the $660? That will give you a good idea which parts they think the leaks are at. Then tell them it's too expensive, you don't want to proceed.

I would add to Eric's advice the following; he mentions cleaning it up so you can see where the leaks are. Correct. Use something like a spray can of engine degreaser. Spray on liberally to a warm engine, then wash off. When you have everything good and clean, get a friend to help with turning the steering while you check for leaks. A car lift would be really handy for this if you can get the use of one.

As he says, if you identify a high pressure hose needs replacing, it may be easier to leave it alone till you have the engine out, then you have plenty of room to replace it with the new one.

BTW, regards the smoke coming out from underneath the car when stopped, that's the usual thing. We're not suggesting smoke coming out from the exhaust at the back. The smoke is generated when oil [small amounts at that!] get on the front part of the exhaust or possibly the headers as they drop down. The area near the cats gets very hot [it's supposed to] and any oil getting on there, either by leaking or being sprayed on, will vapourise, be unsightly and smell bad.

While you are doing your cleanup with the degreaser, you should also include the transmission. Any leaks here that you are not aware of will make their way by gravity and airflow onto the cat, and make loads of smoke.

On the positive side, when you have done all this, your car will be sweet and clean and a pleasure to drive.

Joe

[Yodadad3000]

Michael's college buddies had dubbed his SVX the "Smokin' Purple Cow",
It's taken me only 12 hours to come to the realization that I will have to become my own SVX mechanic. I formerly did a lot of this stuff, back in my college and pre-college days. I thought I'd given that up, but owning an SVX is a different story. Thanks for the advice, now I have a starting point, and
fortunately lots of spare parts. I looked for engine reseal kit on subaruparts.com and couldn't find one for the SVX. I'll keep on my research.
Thank you Eric and Joe. (and Trevor, I'll check those tensioners!) pat

[lhopp77]

Duplicate message removed.

Lee

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by Yodadad3000

Joe
Thanks for all this good advice. So starting with fixing the power steering leak. what to do? The dealer wanted US 660 to repair that leak
alone. I'm sure there is a cheaper option on that repair. And for the record
all the smoke is pouring out from under the svx when parked, not from the
exhaust pipes. Could this be Steering fluid burning on exhaust parts?
I might be willing to spend 660 if that's my primary smoke issue since the thing is still sitting at a dealer 3 hours away from where I live.
Advice? Thanks.

pat

Yes and Yes and Yes. It may very well be simply the O-ring in your power steering pump or a lose hose fitting that leaks fluids onto the rack making it look bad and onto the exhaust resulting in smoke. If you are full of fluid (Dexron ATF-not power steering fluid), your steering feels normal and the rack boots are good--I suspect you don't have much of a problem except finding the leaks.

If the rack is bad, you can find a used or rebuilt rack for considerably less than the dealer price you quoted.

I have sent you an IM. I also live in New Mexico and have a couple or so of these cars.

Lee

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by It's Just Eric

Fixed your post Joe. Now its undebatable, seeing as it is more clearly an opinion. some people read things too literally
-Eric

Eric,

Your possible sarcasm I will rate as nothing more than unfortunate, as I gather it should not be taken literally

However you have implied that my corrections were petty and unnecessary, which again is unfortunate, but have seen fit to take pains to also correct the issue.

Within the context of the original post a clear instruction was given i.e. “If it was my engine, I would also replace the water pump before fitting it, and I would use a new timing belt. I would not bother replacing the tensioners though. They don't break or wear out.”

How else other than literally can this statement be taken. It exactly indicates that the water pump may wear out, but not the tensioners (Tensioned). The statement was subsequently defended, thus creating what has unfortunately turned into a debate,.

Absolute advice without qualification, can seriously disadvantage non technical members. I again point out that my intent was to prevent same.


N.B. There is only one tensioner. This unit has a hydraulic damping mechanism and once a state of equilibrium is reached, further movement does not take place. As a result the mechanism remains static and can and does tend to seize up. This is a known fault applicable to many Subaru engines.

In the event that this further explanation is taken as petty, so be it.

[nonSTOP_service]

'sup guise,

Name's Keyes (jingle jingle) and I just bought a SVX. I've known about the cars for a while and I've always been interested in them.

Then about 1 week ago I went on craigslist and there one was, 1993 LS-L. Drove about an hour to check it out, and bought it that day.

I've been driving it for a couple days now and I gotta say It's pretty nice. Infact as far as I'm concerned it's very nice. Up until now my best car was a 1983 GL-10 wagon with no heater.

Anywho, I'm looking forward to driving this car for years to come and am happy to have become a part of this community, expect to hear a lot from me.