Extremely bad problem that car can't self diagnose

AUSVX · #1 01-04-2009, 01:52 PM

Hey everyone.
So I have had my car nearly a year, and I had this problem 3 times since i've had the car.

Here's the problem, when i start the car when the car is completely cold after about 5mins of driving while the engine is still cold, I might be driving the car up a hill and it feels like half the engine shuts down or a feeling like it has jumped a tooth on the timing, so I quickly pull over, it feels as though it idles fine but as soon as you press the gas it sputters and shakes, shut the car off wait a few moments, start the car up and shut it off a couple of times and the car is completely back to normal.
Another time from cold, I waited until the temp gauge needle had completely risen and car had warmed up and only then I started driving the car hard, same thing happens and it makes the car shake so i shut it off and start it up a couple of times.

Does anyone understand this, because I'm lost. I'm doing the cam seals today and I wanna fix this while the car is apart. My car isn't modified in anyway, I'm not getting any codes and I'm baffled, I can't work out whether it's mechanical or electrical and whether it's linked to another problem which is:
-When I start the car in the morning it's always completely fine except these problems i've described above
-When the car is completely warmed up and I shut the car off and start it up again it's also completely fine
-BUT when I shut the car off and come back between 2 and 5 hours later, I go to start the car and the engine just turns over and over and over, it feels like it's only JUST not starting up but keep holding for about 5 seconds and then starts up.
I have changed the CTS coolant temp sensor and gauge temp sensor about 5 months ago.

Thanks a lot, Jordan.

tiv0 · #2 01-04-2009, 02:21 PM

could gasoline type and gasoline level (less than half tank in cold temps.) have anything to do with this?

sorry im not offering 'help', ill let those more knowledgeable chime in

legacyau · #3 01-04-2009, 03:25 PM

I'm just guessing but maybe its the afm is dirty/faulty? opinions anyone?

oab_au · #4 01-04-2009, 03:38 PM

Cam or crank sensor?

Harvey.

1986nate · #5 01-04-2009, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oab_au

Cam or crank sensor?

Harvey.

I would check these. I know someone else's car wouldn't start at all because of a bad crank sensor. If it has a bad connection or is starting to go, that might explain the intermittency of the problem.

kwren · #6 01-04-2009, 11:53 PM

could be a bad cam sprocket as well.

Ill bet it is in that neighborhood! Had one exactly like that.

Dealer kept it 6 weeks and a day, finally made up a $2200.00 story and I got it home and fixed it!
(we prey a lot)
Hope it works out for you.
Keith

kwren · #7 01-04-2009, 11:57 PM

could be a bad cam sprocket as well. My cam shaft rusted out on the end and slipped so in essence it was out of time with the timing belt aligned as it should have been.

Not an easy thing to find.

Ill bet it is in that neighborhood! Had one exactly like that.

Dealer kept it 6 weeks and a day, kept messing around with till they blew a head gasket. They finally made up a $2200.00 story and I got it home, found the problem and fixed it!
(we prey a lot)
I wouldn't drive it till I got it worked out. You can ruin the engine.

Hope it works out for you.
Keith

svxistentialist · #8 01-05-2009, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUSVX

Hey everyone.
So I have had my car nearly a year, and I had this problem 3 times since i've had the car.

Here's the problem, when i start the car when the car is completely cold after about 5mins of driving while the engine is still cold, I might be driving the car up a hill and it feels like half the engine shuts down or a feeling like it has jumped a tooth on the timing, so I quickly pull over, it feels as though it idles fine but as soon as you press the gas it sputters and shakes, shut the car off wait a few moments, start the car up and shut it off a couple of times and the car is completely back to normal.
Another time from cold, I waited until the temp gauge needle had completely risen and car had warmed up and only then I started driving the car hard, same thing happens and it makes the car shake so i shut it off and start it up a couple of times.

Does anyone understand this, because I'm lost. I'm doing the cam seals today and I wanna fix this while the car is apart. My car isn't modified in anyway, I'm not getting any codes and I'm baffled, I can't work out whether it's mechanical or electrical and whether it's linked to another problem which is:
-When I start the car in the morning it's always completely fine except these problems i've described above
-When the car is completely warmed up and I shut the car off and start it up again it's also completely fine
-BUT when I shut the car off and come back between 2 and 5 hours later, I go to start the car and the engine just turns over and over and over, it feels like it's only JUST not starting up but keep holding for about 5 seconds and then starts up.
I have changed the CTS coolant temp sensor and gauge temp sensor about 5 months ago.

Thanks a lot, Jordan.

Jordan

You should very carefully consider Harvey's reply and Keith's reply here, one of these can well be your solution.

In Keith's case he had a difficult-to-find mechanical problem with a cam sprocket. This knocked the timing out of kilter and caused the bad running.

What Harvey is suggesting is possible replacement of electronic sensors. If I was you, I'd probably check these out first. These are electronic devices. They can develop bad connection-bad signal faults that are much worse when cold, but that will "go away" when the sensor is warmed up.

Cam or crank sensor would be my first guess also. If they check out OK, then see if you may have Keith's problem on one of your cams.

Joe

kwren · #9 01-05-2009, 09:09 AM

What made Jordon and my problem so unique is the fact that the car started and ran great for a few minutes and then disaster would strike. Drive along and suddenly felt like half the engine fell off. Seems like the computer would sense the problem and put the car in "limp home" mode. At least that was the end result.

Diagnoses was so difficult because anything done to the car to try to "fix it" would produce a positive result... for about a mile of driving. A timing problem defied all logic because all the marks on the timing belt lined up.

I cannot stress enough the need to find the culprit and not keep trying to drive it.

Running it can hurt the engine... bad

Keith

kwren · #10 01-05-2009, 12:34 PM

You will need to remove the timing belt and loosen the bolts that hold the sprocket on the cam shaft to check this if Harvey's information does not get the results you need. The end of my camshaft rusted so bad where the key is supposed to hold it in place and it let the sprocket slip a ways on the shaft.

I ended up changing the cam shaft and the sprocket.

not too big a deal.

Keith

kwren · #11 01-05-2009, 07:27 PM

Jordan?

You got NO code on this problem??

Keith

AUSVX · #12 01-05-2009, 11:14 PM

Hey sorry for the late reply.

I completely understand what your saying Keith, how often was it happenning to you before you fixed it?

I remember a while back you posted pictures of the camshaft and sprocket in a thread you made except i can't find it. You took a picture of where it slipped out of the keyway or it made it's own groove in the metal? I'll have a look in your locker

Suprisingly no codes, I think both problems 1) about starting the car up and 2) about that feeling of half the engine shutting down or jumping a tooth, AREN'T related and both are separate problems but I hope they are and it's just a sensor. The reason why I say this is because once before I've disconnected the battery and made sure everything is reset and even left the battery disconnected over night once and reconnected everything the next day and drove the car BUT when I came to start the car after not driving it for about 2-6 hours (which is when the start up problem always occurs, the problem is a perfect pattern and happens everyday) it started fine but give it a week of driving and me coming to the car 2-6 hours later of not driving and it's back to it's old ways, the engine turns over and over and over for about 10 seconds and then starts.

Thanks for the massive reply guys, every problem I've ever had has been resolved through this website and I'm really grateful!!

Jordan.