McCain picks Alaska's Govenor for VP

[benebob]

Originally Posted by dromano

benebob,

Not a bad job of personal attack Venom is what venom does

You made reference earlier to those that receive more than they put in and that you and your generation bare the result of the equation. I for one started SSI at 62 and have already received more than I paid in, do I feel bad about that? h3ll no!!! I paid in for 46 years, it's not my fault the funds were not invested properly. My dad is 91 and healthy, I'm looking forward to a lot more SSI checks.

Will you write in Nader or Keyes on 11/4?

Dave

Funds were invested properly for the record at least originally as it was a fund that collected a cool 7-9 percent safely in US bonds and securities. The greedy RUSHPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRAPS couldn't keep their hands off it so they've squandered the boomer surplus on their failed policies and agendas. Then they ignore simple adjustments in benefits or contributions as the population changes. I'm sure you voted for these idiots each time too as they promised you the moon and you wanted more cheese rather than fiscal responsiblity.

It humors me that the Grand Oil Party was once the fiscally responsible and conservation minded party. Not sure how they got that way since even in the "good" Regan years they squandered nearly 2 trillion dollars on that wonderful war on drugs only to 20 years later embrace the benefits of the poppy in Afganistan.

Next time you feel the insecurity in yourself to question another citizen's patriotism or belief that as Obigears put it the other night. We are Americans first and party second (only he got it wrong as political parties are 3/4 of the problem).

As for who I vote for that is a personal issue. I will say that I did donate to 4 canidates this year. 1 Republican and 3 "others". I even have one of these canidate's bumper stickers on all of my vehicles simply because it really pisses off the "Hope" voters. Even in PA (one of the most anti-major party states for ballot access I think at this point the Constitution Party, Lib Party, Green Party and Nader will all be on the ballot. Thanks in a major way to the State Demo. Party paying staff members to prevent its citizens the right to make a choice other than bad and worse. That's what is they want you to choose from, personally I'm smarter than that. I simply wish others were instead of playing into the scare tactics both parties use to prevent a full dialog of the real issues.

Its more fun to worry about the non issues they spout: abortion, change, jobs, partisan white noise and drilling rather than the real issues: the dollar, education, an energy plan, health care, our military and our infastructure... All things that Americans have a universal stake in seeing they are the best in the world.

BTW Harry, I was perfectly civil in answering Dave's question in my first post. Sure it was crude but he asked for an opinion and that is what he got. He simply didn't want to hear that she isn't the second oh right 3rd coming of Christ right after Rush's Messiah!

[lhopp77]

You can't blame Bush for much of the real or perceived current economic problems. The mortgage mess and high oil prices and its impact on other prices was going to happen no matter who was president. Particularly, if the liberal democrats continue to block new oil exploration in areas where there are know reserves (size unknown until drilled).

BUT a notice to you far left liberals that do oppose drilling new offshore wells or in areas such as ANWAR:
CHINA is drilling within 35 miles of the US coast and is drilling SLANT holes which takes them even closer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now--how smart is it that the Democrats block the US doing this drilling??????????? Dumb, dumb, dumb!!!!

As to Palin--no matter how you slice it, she has as much experience (qualification) as Hussein Obama who is incidently more Arab than Black. AND--she is running for VP and not Prez.

Lee

PS: As to the weak US dollar--all of you bleeding hearts do a quick survey around your house--How many products do you have made in China versus made in the USA??????????? Reckon that might have something to do with it?????

[dromano]

Benebob,

Do you think everything politicians say is just to be elected? I think I would rather believe a new voice till or if proven otherwise. Why disrespect a woman that appears to be a reformer and a fighter?

When push comes to shove would you prefer a result like Ross Perot gave us in 92? Does it not matter to you which of the 2 major parties are in control? Do you like paying taxes? I just don't understand why a person that does not support either party would not in the final hour support one in your best interest.

What is it like to be disgusted with both major parties? Right, wrong, or otherwise, one of those parties will make the important decisions for 2,4,6,8 years. Making a personal statement by voting or supporting a party/candidate that has no chance is the same as not voting or voting against a major party/candidate.

I don't want more taxes. I want leaders that are sensitive to job creators.

[dromano]

Just as we are paying the price for not seriously developing non petroleum energy sources 30+ years ago, we will pay a huge price for allowing all the products that are made in China. What if China cut us off? Massive US start ups? Hardly, we would suffer big time for a long time.

In 2000 we had $13 a barrel oil, we let the OPEC producers woo us even before there was an OPEC. During the 70's oil embargo we should have sucked it up and made serious moves to alternate energy, but, no, we don't do 'suck up' well.

So we are paying for our collective lack of attention? Maybe we really can only blame ourselves.

[benebob]

Originally Posted by dromano

Benebob,

Do you think everything politicians say is just to be elected?

Until proven wrong then yes.

Originally Posted by dromano

Benebob,

Why disrespect a woman that appears to be a reformer and a fighter?

A reformer by using her influance to help her family while ignoring her 17 year old daughter is your idea of a reformer and a fighter? I guess she must've been shooting her gun while her daughter was fulfilling every 17 year olds dream of getting knocked up.

Originally Posted by dromano

Benebob,
When push comes to shove would you prefer a result like Ross Perot gave us in 92? Does it not matter to you which of the 2 major parties are in control? Do you like paying taxes? I just don't understand why a person that does not support either party would not in the final hour support one in your best interest.

Only reason Ross Perot gave that is because the voters let him. I'm too principled to go against my belief for continued crap in elected office. I'd rather be part of the solution then part of the problem. If you don't care about your principles enough (aside from your taxes) to vote with your heart then I feel for you.

As for if I like paying taxes, my response is simple. You can knock the federal government all you want but in the end it is the most efficient, most professional, best run government in the world (even with the partisan politics). I've yet to hear a so called "conservative" advocate disbanding the largest government cost over run there is, our military. That's because it is simply the best this world has ever seen yet they do pay quite a bit for their toilets too. No I don't like paying taxes any more than anyone else but I also don't like paying my electric bill, my car insurance, my health insurance, my water bill, and on and on and on. It is my responsiblity as an American to pay my taxes just as it is yours.

As someone who no doubt uses medicare or caid I'm sure you're well aware of its shortcoming. I'm also sure you're well aware of its advantages
otherwise you wouldn't use it. Health insurance is just as vital in a global economy to have at the very least a program of last resort for your neighbors and mine who loose coverage for whatever reason as without it my insurance costs sky rocket, hospitals go under and the poor still don't pay for their heath care and are thus unhealthy and less productive at their work.

Just as I support public access to safe drinking water for the country and school lunches for children, as there is a common good, I support basic health care at a reasonable cost. If someone wants more than by all means they can pay for an expanded policy. Without it we will continue to fall behind the other countries that do.

Originally Posted by dromano

Benebob,
What is it like to be disgusted with both major parties? Right, wrong, or otherwise, one of those parties will make the important decisions for 2,4,6,8 years. Making a personal statement by voting or supporting a party/candidate that has no chance is the same as not voting or voting against a major party/candidate.

What gives you that impression. I'm disgusted with idiots who support canidates because they are happy with the lesser of two evils. The canidates themselves and parties only give voters what they need to in order to get elected. Did you really think that they do it for the money or the fame?

The only reason that better canidates don't have a chance is because of the poor choices made in the voting booth or from the fear tactics used by both parties to brainwash you into thinking that X will happen if you elect the other guy, then there is the political exclusion they endure trying to compete against the two parties who have delivered their trash to your TV.

I'm a realist who understands that the longer the country goes down this path, the harder it will be to dig us out. I also realize that by that time the rest of the country will have realized that their political system was the problem all along and in the end it will be easier to dig out simply because Americans will have decided to vote for the best person for office, not the party line, not the lesser of bad but for someone who can lead.

Originally Posted by dromano

I don't want more taxes. I want leaders that are sensitive to job creators.

So then either you support a national health care system as that is the excuse given by nearly every employer who pulls out of this country or can't expand their workforce because of the legacy health care costs or maybe you support the new America where we make nothing, sell nothing abroad, buy everything from countries who we shipped our jobs too then leave Americans with nice, low paying service jobs to pay for your SS.

I don't want to pay more taxes either but when I look at the alternatives of raising a daughter, putting her through college so she can work for WalMart at what I make today (she's 3 BTW) then I'll gladly pay more for taxes if needed to ensure that America has that chance to remain as the beacon of light. I guess you don't care about America as much as you're pocket or as much as you like to think if your not willing to ensure your kids live better than you have.

[benebob]

Originally Posted by dromano

So we are paying for our collective lack of attention? Maybe we really can only blame ourselves.

My point exactly.

Why don't we listen to Lee though and drill, drill, drill until we run dry then since we don't have a collective attention span of more than 2 minutes we'll have a country which runs on oil, no oil to use and a pissed off bear in Russia who waited 75 years for this day while sitting on a pile of "military" strategic oil reserves.

Last time I checked our military needed oil to run. I'm not opposed to drilling but I'm opposed to drilling unchecked with no concern for our future.

While Lee is right about China he's forgetting that Cuba also came directly to the US after Castro overthru a brutally corrupt US puppet state wanting to develop an economic partnership. Naturally we rebuffed as it was the middle of the cold war. We'll trade with China today, we'll trade with Vietnam today but Cuba is still an island in need of our help towards the light yet we shun it. I'm sure if any president would go down there and sign that deal to drill there in return for starting a normalization process the Cubans would send the Chinese packing in a heartbeat.

I guess the Cuban gov't must be worse than the Chinese gov't though and we're taking the moral high road. Just don't be suprised when Russia send some interceptor missles there to counter the ones we decided to place in Poland.

[Manarius]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

You can't blame Bush for much of the real or perceived current economic problems. The mortgage mess and high oil prices and its impact on other prices was going to happen no matter who was president. Particularly, if the liberal democrats continue to block new oil exploration in areas where there are know reserves (size unknown until drilled).

BUT a notice to you far left liberals that do oppose drilling new offshore wells or in areas such as ANWAR:
CHINA is drilling within 35 miles of the US coast and is drilling SLANT holes which takes them even closer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now--how smart is it that the Democrats block the US doing this drilling??????????? Dumb, dumb, dumb!!!!

As to Palin--no matter how you slice it, she has as much experience (qualification) as Hussein Obama who is incidently more Arab than Black. AND--she is running for VP and not Prez.

Lee

PS: As to the weak US dollar--all of you bleeding hearts do a quick survey around your house--How many products do you have made in China versus made in the USA??????????? Reckon that might have something to do with it?????

Lee, have you even read the numbers for offshore drilling? The amount of oil produced within the next 10 years with our offshore drilling doesn't even count as a drop in the bucket of how much oil we use a day in the US.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...ts_say/?page=2

But in the best-case scenario, Kaufmann said, the United States could only produce an additional two to four million barrels of offshore oil a day - not enough to shift the global supply-demand balance in a world market that now consumes about 86 million barrels a day and is growing fast. About a quarter of that consumption now occurs in the United States.

Offshore drilling is useless. Like T. Boone Pickens says in the commercials on TV: Drill all you want, that isn't solving the problem.

[shotgunslade]

I would like to put in a vote for higher taxes. I probably pay more taxes than most people here, but I only regret those payments because they have been wasted on "foreign adventures.". I just wish the money were spent on things that would make the US more competitive and thus help, as Benebob has suggested, strengthen the dollar. We have an enormous balance of payments deficit and an enormous federal budget deficit. We need to bring both of those down, and more taxation particularly of those who can afford it, would certainly help both of these.

This summer I did a river cruise on the Danube, Main and Rhine rivers. The Main and the Danube are connected by a canal, with many locks. This canal was built with taxpayer money. It primarily is a conduit for bulk commodities, ore, coal, agricultural products. The lock fees will never pay back the capital cost of this canal. But, this canal has a number of benefits for Germany and Europe as a whole. it significantly decreases the cost of transporting commodities, keeping their costs down for everyone. It significantly reduces truck traffic on their highways, increasing safety, improving the autobahn experience. It is an infrastructure improvement that has demonstrated advantages for all. Originally, the US interstate highway system was the same deal. Today, we are burdened with spending for highly parochial interests. There is no national plan for infrastructure improvement, such as railroads, bridges to somewhere, etc.

So, I am for a balanced federal budget, increased spending for infrastructure, and increased taxes for those who can afford them. I do not buy the line that increasing taxes on the wealthy decreases their incentive to invest and thereby decreases the benefits of these investments for all Americans. The trickle down argument is crap. There is pretty good statistical evidence that supply side economic programs actually tend to depress the economy. Economic growth occurs more frequently with more balanced federal budgets, more infrastructure investment, and as a result higher taxes on the wealthy and corporations.

[shotgunslade]

As for Barack Obama's ethnic origin, his mother's maiden name is originally English, his grandmother's maiden name is French (Normandy), via England. His father is from the Luo tribe of Kenya, whose linguistic and genetic roots are both Semitic (Nubian, etc in Sudan) and sub-Saharan African. Ain't no Arabic in there at all, except, if you go back many thousands of years, there is a common genetic connection between Arabic and Nilo-semitic groups. Of course, you go back a few more thousands of years and we are all "out of Africa."

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by Manarius

Lee, have you even read the numbers for offshore drilling? The amount of oil produced within the next 10 years with our offshore drilling doesn't even count as a drop in the bucket of how much oil we use a day in the US.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...ts_say/?page=2


Offshore drilling is useless. Like T. Boone Pickens says in the commercials on TV: Drill all you want, that isn't solving the problem.

I think you need to do some reading. The problem is---------------we do NOT know what we have in the way of TOTAL reserves because key areas have not been explored to determine this. THAT is what needs to be done---FIND OUT HOW MUCH WE REALLY HAVE. AFTER we determine our total reserves, we can better assess how much time we have AND how much money we need to throw at alternatives. One of the initial approaches to alternatives---corn based ethanol--was stupid, stupid, stupid.

Also, think you need to listen to TBoone again. He says--drill, drill, drill, but also poses the realistic approach of alternatives. He says drill, drill, drill, to buy time to develop the alternatives.

You also need to review your data on offshore oil resources and get it from something other than liberal sources that play down the need to do this drilling. EVEN in the 90's more than 30 percent of the worldwide oil production was coming from offshore wells. This has increased and as I said--We do NOT know how much we have offshore because we have not been permitted to drill enough in all potential areas to make a determination

Lee

[Manarius]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

I think you need to do some reading. The problem is---------------we do NOT know what we have in the way of TOTAL reserves because key areas have not been explored to determine this. THAT is what needs to be done---FIND OUT HOW MUCH WE REALLY HAVE. AFTER we determine our total reserves, we can better assess how much time we have AND how much money we need to throw at alternatives. One of the initial approaches to alternatives---corn based ethanol--was stupid, stupid, stupid.

Also, think you need to listen to TBoone again. He says--drill, drill, drill, but also poses the realistic approach of alternatives. He says drill, drill, drill, to buy time to develop the alternatives.

You also need to review your data on offshore oil resources and get it from something other than liberal sources that play down the need to do this drilling. EVEN in the 90's more than 30 percent of the worldwide oil production was coming from offshore wells. This has increased and as I said--We do NOT know how much we have offshore because we have not been permitted to drill enough in all potential areas to make a determination

Lee

Lee, you immediately dismiss the source and therefore ignore the facts of the situation. Offshore drilling is not environmentally friendly. If you had actually taken the time to read the article, you would have seen that.

Offshore drilling is not the answer. We need to stop pissing off the world's oil producers and we won't have any more problems.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by Manarius

Lee, you immediately dismiss the source and therefore ignore the facts of the situation. Offshore drilling is not environmentally friendly. If you had actually taken the time to read the article, you would have seen that.

Offshore drilling is not the answer. We need to stop pissing off the world's oil producers and we won't have any more problems.

I think you are the one that is ignoring fact and reality. You need to check out the Australian offshore drilling operations. Nearly all of Australian domestic oil is from offshore drilling. Just do a little unbiased research for a change and see how environmentally safe it is.

There have been over 4000 wells drilled in the Gulf of Mexico--can you describe the adverse environmental impact resulting from this large number of wells???? I doubt it. Again more fiction than fact as to environmental impact.

What do you propose--leave the oil in the ground for countries such as China to drill it by advanced slant hole techniques??????? That makes a lot of sense.

Lee

[RSVX]

I need to hunt down my source, but I read *somewhere* that mother nature leaks more oil into the environment than the current or proposed offshore drilling would... ever.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by RSVX

I need to hunt down my source, but I read *somewhere* that mother nature leaks more oil into the environment than the current or proposed offshore drilling would... ever.

Here is a link to an example that you are talking about. Isn't it amazing how the totally uninformed can get things so wrong and try to mislead others?


http://www.livescience.com/environme..._oil_seep.html

Lee

[RSVX]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Here is a link to an example that you are talking about. Isn't it amazing how the totally uninformed can get things so wrong and try to mislead others?


http://www.livescience.com/environme..._oil_seep.html

Lee

Thanks for that Lee, you have saved me some effort.

Some wonders will never cease to amaze me, one of which being how much you and I agree upon, lately.

The other being what you said about misinformed individuals.