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  #1  
Old 12-22-2004, 10:51 AM
danyvaly danyvaly is offline
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crank pulley question

My svx needs a crankpulley (harmonic balancer) can I replace it with one from a subaru legacy 2.2
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2004, 12:02 PM
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svxfiles svxfiles is offline
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Although they list different part #s, the 2.2 should bolt right up. If you can compare them side by side, and the grouves line up, I would go ahead and do it.
It does make you wonder why Subaru would make a part look so simular, perhaps there is a different density to the rubber/polyurethane?
I've run with an aluminum solid crank pulley for 60,000 miles now without incident, and its 1/5th the weight, and 80% the diameter . Tom
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2004, 01:15 PM
lee lee is offline
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I've been running the OEM sized aluminum crank pulley from Dayle for the last 15k miles with no issues so far. It's a cheaper solution that the OEM product if you find the Legacy unit won't work.
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  #4  
Old 02-15-2005, 06:17 AM
dcarrb dcarrb is offline
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more crank pulley questions

(old thread revival)

I noticed late Sunday that my car’s crank pulley had suddenly developed an alarming wobble (this just a couple of weeks after I replaced both accessory drive belts), and that the semi-elastic material between the core and outer ring was cracked and protruding. Of course, it’s not actually wobbling; it’s just no longer turning true. After contacting several outlets for a replacement, questions now arise:

1) What’s with the disparity in Subaru parts pricing? My local parts guy at a national (aftermarket) chain, who recently saved me roughly 25% on the cost of an ECU coolant temp sensor and asked me to run any OEM part number by him before looking elsewhere, came in at $184, with no shipping charges unless I wanted the pulley before Friday. (I do.) A Subaru dealership on Atlanta’s northern fringe quoted $194, out the door. Three on-line OEM sources were in the $140 range, plus shipping. NOBODY had one in hand, which leads me to my next question (directed to Subaru of America):

2) Why can’t Subaru distribution centers drop-ship parts directly to those of us (and I’m sure there are many) who have no dealership nearby? I’d conduct business by phone or on-line with the dealership of my choice — be it in Atlanta or Anchorage — and pay their price, then they’d have the part shipped directly to me from the nearest warehouse that has the thing on the shelf. Simple. It's absurd to have to wait a couple of days while the part you need makes its way over some dealer's threshhold before even heading your way.

3) Should I have ordered an Impreza or Legacy pulley instead? (One helpful fellow explained why few dealers would stock an SVX crank pulley.) It’s a safe bet that there are a few of those around. If they’re identical to that on the SVX, why doesn’t the SVX part number ring-up multiple applications?

4) Why is the crank pulley made this way, and what is it about the SVX that kills ‘em? I’ve managed to coax a couple of Subarus to 200,000 miles and beyond, and this is my first pulley failure. Clearly, this car is a different story. My uneducated guess is that the flexible layer is intended to isolate the crank from vibrations induced by the belt-driven accessories, but given healthy accessories and properly-tensioned belts, how much vibration can there be? (It seemed noteworthy that the subaruparts.com diagram did not refer to the pulley as a harmonic balancer.) And naturally it follows...

5) What are the possible long-term consequences of running the one-piece, OEM-sized unit I ordered from Motorsports Warehouse? (Who, BTW, had ‘em in stock, agreed to ship overnight and still beat the high-end prices above.) Main seal failure? An oil pump that routinely shakes itself to pieces? A dreadful noise followed by the sight in the rearview mirror of liberated engine internals bouncing down the freeway? (Yeah, I doubt that, too.) The absence of negative reports here is encouraging and I’m not truly concerned, but still, I figure the engineers who designed this machine are considerably brighter than this writer, hence my prevailing attitude that few aftermarket mods are actual improvements over the original.

In the end, it seems every SVX owner might do well to put stock crank pulley replacement on his or her list of preventive maintenance duties to be performed at the 120,000 mile mark.

dcb

Edit: The new pulley was on my desk when I returned from lunch today. Looks good. (Thanks, guys.)

Last edited by dcarrb; 02-15-2005 at 12:48 PM.
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  #5  
Old 02-15-2005, 04:28 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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The eternal question.

Gid'ay Darrell,

Can't answer the spare parts questions.
The Harmonic ballancer, does what its name suggests, it dampens the Harmonic vibrations that happen in the length of the crankshaft. This is a winding up and unwinding of the crank as cylinders fire to power the driveline.

When no.1 cylinder fires, it winds the shaft up to turn the flywheel, when the power pulse has reduced, the flywheel will unwind the shaft to drive the cylinder over its idle strokes. As the engine revs rise, there is a time when the wind-up from the cylinder meets the un-wind from the previous firing. When these oppersit forces meet, they stress the crank, and it can crack, at this spot.

The length and torsional flexabilty of the crank, controls the rpm that these harmonic virbrations occure. If they occure at a rpm that the engine normally sustains, the engineers tune the ballancer by adding a weight, mounted on rubber, to move it to some other rpm, that is usually past through quickly, so that the crank is not subjected to the stress for too long.

Remembering that this car was designed to tour at high speeds, it would sustain the range from 4000 to 5000 rpm for a long time. So this is where they would ensure the harmonics did not occure. Where did they move them to?????????

I doubt that the damper from a 4 cylinder would be the same, as the length of the crank is much shorter. The harmonics would be much less, and designed to occure at a different rpm, as they don't have to sustain the high rpms.

I think there was a design fault in having the rubber isolated weight, also driving the accessory belts. The type of belt needs more tension than the rubber can stand, so it gets worked harder, to fail earlier.

As to the long term effects of replaceing it with an alloy one. If the car is driven at sustain high speeds, sh1t will happen.. If it is driven like most drivers seem to, at low engine speeds. It may not. For my money, I'll keep replacing it with the standard ballancer, and not over tightening the belts.

Harvey.
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  #6  
Old 02-16-2005, 06:09 AM
dcarrb dcarrb is offline
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Greetings Harvey,

Your thorough explanation is appreciated; thank you.

(Pleasing to know one reader wasn't anesthetized by my rant.)

I'm a grandfather and tend for the most part to drive like one (tho' with this car, I do succumb to occasional mat-the-accelerator moments), so maybe the old crankshaft will hang in there for awhile.

regards,
dcb
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  #7  
Old 02-16-2005, 09:49 AM
red95svx
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Re: more crank pulley questions

Quote:
Originally posted by dcarrb
(old thread revival)


1) What’s with the disparity in Subaru parts pricing? My local parts guy at a national (aftermarket) chain, who recently saved me roughly 25% on the cost of an ECU coolant temp sensor and asked me to run any OEM part number by him before looking elsewhere, came in at $184, with no shipping charges unless I wanted the pulley before Friday. (I do.) A Subaru dealership on Atlanta’s northern fringe quoted $194, out the door. Three on-line OEM sources were in the $140 range, plus shipping. NOBODY had one in hand, which leads me to my next question (directed to Subaru of America):

2) Why can’t Subaru distribution centers drop-ship parts directly to those of us (and I’m sure there are many) who have no dealership nearby? I’d conduct business by phone or on-line with the dealership of my choice — be it in Atlanta or Anchorage — and pay their price, then they’d have the part shipped directly to me from the nearest warehouse that has the thing on the shelf. Simple. It's absurd to have to wait a couple of days while the part you need makes its way over some dealer's threshhold before even heading your way.



1) Subaru has a suggested retail price for their parts, but whether or not a particular dealer follows that suggestion is up to them. Why is the same DVD movie two different prices at the two Wal-Marts within 30 minutes of my house? Location. Apparently Wal Mart feels they can charge just a bit more at one location because of where the store is located. A suggested retail price is just that: a suggestion.

2) Does any car manufacturer do that? These warehouses are huge. I know I wouldn't want to look through miles of shelving to find some clip that I'm only making $.20 on for some guy in Alaska. But if the clip is part of some dealerships $7,000 daily stock order, I wouldn't mind. I agree with the warehouses: let the dealerships deal with the small stuff.



Just my thoughts


Dave
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  #8  
Old 02-16-2005, 11:28 AM
dcarrb dcarrb is offline
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Re: Re: more crank pulley questions

Quote:
Originally posted by red95svx
Just my thoughts
And I'm glad to hear them.

I understand your points, but still think a $139 to $194 variance on a factory part is unreasonable, and if I were some big cheese at Subaru, I'd be inclined to tell one of those outlets to stop gouging our customers.

As to the parts distribution, I take a please-the-customer point of view: When I need a part, I probably need it NOW. It's frustrating to have to accept a system that places the customer second. But what do I know about the car business? Subaru would like to see all of us quit foolin' around with SVXs and trade them in on new Outbacks and Foresters, so why would they go out of the way to make parts customers happy?

dcb
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  #9  
Old 02-16-2005, 01:28 PM
red95svx
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Re: Re: Re: more crank pulley questions

Quote:
Originally posted by dcarrb


I understand your points, but still think a $139 to $194 variance on a factory part is unreasonable, and if I were some big cheese at Subaru, I'd be inclined to tell one of those outlets to stop gouging our customers.
dcb

$194 is suggested retail. Anyone who quotes you that price is simply following Subaru's suggestion. Anyone who quotes you higher is either ripping you off or they feel they can charge more because of their location (Subaru dealers close to Boston are more expensive than I am, for parts and labor). Anyone who quotes you a lower price is giving you a deal.

What I don't understand is why people can determine how much profit a dealership can make on a new car by talking down the price. Why doesn't this apply to any other type of sale? Why can't I talk down the price of my groceries?

"$2.49 for milk? I'll tell ya what, I'll give ya $1.99. How's that sound? And what's this? $.99 for a loaf of bread? It's worth $.86 tops."

"$247.00 for a new TV? How about this, Mr. Wal -Mart associate, I'll give you $219.00 because some guy on the internet said that this model is not worth $247.00. And by the way, I will not pay the $19.99 sticker price on this shirt. I'll spend $17.99 or I'll walk out".

Now THAT would be something


Dave
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  #10  
Old 02-16-2005, 01:33 PM
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  #11  
Old 02-16-2005, 02:16 PM
dcarrb dcarrb is offline
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Re: Re: Re: Re: more crank pulley questions

Quote:
Originally posted by red95svx
What I don't understand is why people can determine how much profit a dealership can make on a new car by talking down the price. Why doesn't this apply to any other type of sale?
I was self-employed for several years, and used to feel mighty insulted when I'd give someone a quote and they'd commence trying to whittle me down.

That said, I'd still try to whittle down a car dealer.

It's too bad the business works that way, and I know Saturn and others have instituted "no haggle" pricing, but it seems the unsavory art of negotiation is an indelible facet of the auto sales business.

Getting back to parts, if suggested retail on that pulley is $194, and more than one shop can get away for better that fifty bucks less, the markup on that little jewel must be mighty handsome.

dcb
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  #12  
Old 02-17-2005, 07:46 AM
red95svx
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: more crank pulley questions

Quote:
Originally posted by dcarrb


Getting back to parts, if suggested retail on that pulley is $194, and more than one shop can get away for better that fifty bucks less, the markup on that little jewel must be mighty handsome.

dcb


I agree.


Dave
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  #13  
Old 02-17-2005, 09:11 AM
dcarrb dcarrb is offline
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I have no quarrel with anybody making money honestly (I'd like to make some myself, someday), and I probably wouldn't have balked when that parts guy quoted $194 had he followed the price with, "I don't have it in stock, but since you're out of town, we can ship it to you this afternoon from our Atlanta distribution center..."

dcb
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  #14  
Old 02-17-2005, 09:34 AM
red95svx
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That would be a nice option to offer the customer. Since I can't ship parts directly from the warehouse though, I usually offer a discount for making the customer wait. Or if they live a good distance away from us I offer to ship it to them for free so they don't have to make the trip twice.




Dave
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  #15  
Old 02-17-2005, 02:54 PM
Bobb Bobb is offline
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Parts

Hi Everyone, I order or get my Subaru parts from the local dealer, Dunning Ann Arbor Subaru. An example. I order a couple of small parts on Monday of this week. The week of 2/13/05. The parts guy calls me on Wednesday and tells me the parts are in. And he gives me 15% off. For little stuff I don't ask for the 15%. He deserves the profit on the little stuff as the dollars are not there. And I don"t pay any shipping charges. I love my Subaru parts guys. Take care, BOBB

P/S They do all this without me asking for anything special. "B"

Last edited by Bobb; 02-19-2005 at 09:24 PM.
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