Before you Vote in Nov, you should read this

Nader. Woot.

George would have had mine except for the patriot act.

[wasions]

My dad, who lives in Florida, emailed me this a. that he voted for "the guys that you didn't vote for", meaning Kerry/Edwards. He had no real reason, as he only listens to 'big 3' news. The following is my answer to him:

Dad,

I'll understand if you voted AGAINST George Bush. Probably 90% of the good people who voted for Kerry, actually voted against Bush. They didn't particularly like Kerry either, but consider him the lesser of two evils. If you actually voted FOR Kerry though, because you like what he stands for, then I'm very disappointed. That would mean that you've changed very much from the man who raised me to be the person I am today. You see, Kerry is
for practically everything that you used to be against.

Kerry is for abortion on demand. Any type of abortion, including partial birth abortion, where the baby has scissors jammed into it's brain AS IT'S BEING BORN. Abortion available at any age. Without parental consent. What that means is that he supports using abortion as birth control.

Kerry supports the government funding of fetal stem cell research. That means killing babies in the womb for the express purpose of experimenting with them. Fetal stem cell research is not illegal. If it were viable, private companies would be doing it. They're not. They started to, and discovered it was not profitable. They are, however, having good success with adult stem cells, where no one is actually harmed with the research.

Kerry supports marriage between same sex couples. For instance, if Sue Xxxxx (edit: that's my brother's ex) wanted to marry her 'girlfriend', she could. Then she would have all the legal rights of regular married couples, including petitioning the court to raise her children in that home. It would also give her adoption rights, so that the two women (or men, as the case might be) could adopt babies and raise them in that sexually 'anything goes' environment. You do realize that incest among adopted or step-children is five times that of birth children, right?

Kerry has stated that he'll send more soldiers to Iraq. Many of the soldiers in the military today have stated that if Kerry is elected, they won't reenlist. They don't want to work for the man who caused the suffering of so many American prisoners of war during the Vietnam years. That means that Kerry will have to reinstate the draft. Yes, he's been saying that of Bush, but the Republicans have never hinted that it would be necessary. The Democrats are already planning to do it, if necessary, and of course, it will be necessary under their leadership.

As the father of two Vietnam veterans, you should be ashamed of Kerry, and the spectacle he made in 1969. Until a month ago, his photograph was hanging among the heroes of the Vietnam war - in Hanoi! His book, 'The New Soldier', was read aloud to American prisoners of war in POW camps as evidence of their 'crimes' as they were being tortured.

That's enough for now.

Regardless of how the vote turns out, Kerry is not MY president.

Love ya,
Steve

Dad's state appears to going to Bush. Mine has gone to Kerry. (I am so ashamed.)

[poweredx2]

How do you feel about the people who have lost there jobs to MEXICO,I can speak on that its real hard going from 50-70k a year to 416$ a week to go school for automechanics,Ross P. ran for pres. back in 94 and told everyone that if the free trade act was passed the average factory worker would be making about less than half there salary in ten years.Well my company went to Mexico this year and my pay has been cut in half,but people laughed at the guy.I didn't vote for either SOB because its all seem to be who can cook up the best pot of crap.We're the only country that people can come here and get rich and us americans can only hope to hit the lottery to get rich,its the american way.Wake up people.

[drivemusicnow]

Originally posted by wasions
My dad, who lives in Florida, emailed me this a. that he voted for "the guys that you didn't vote for", meaning Kerry/Edwards. He had no real reason, as he only listens to 'big 3' news. The following is my answer to him:

Dad,

I'll understand if you voted AGAINST George Bush. Probably 90% of the good people who voted for Kerry, actually voted against Bush. They didn't particularly like Kerry either, but consider him the lesser of two evils. If you actually voted FOR Kerry though, because you like what he stands for, then I'm very disappointed. That would mean that you've changed very much from the man who raised me to be the person I am today. You see, Kerry is
for practically everything that you used to be against.

Kerry is for abortion on demand. Any type of abortion, including partial birth abortion, where the baby has scissors jammed into it's brain AS IT'S BEING BORN. Abortion available at any age. Without parental consent. What that means is that he supports using abortion as birth control.

Very good point.. and especially knowing your Christian background this point is i'm sure very strong to you.

Originally posted by wasions

Kerry supports the government funding of fetal stem cell research. That means killing babies in the womb for the express purpose of experimenting with them. Fetal stem cell research is not illegal. If it were viable, private companies would be doing it. They're not. They started to, and discovered it was not profitable. They are, however, having good success with adult stem cells, where no one is actually harmed with the research.

He didn't limit support to fetal stem cell research only.

Originally posted by wasions


Kerry supports marriage between same sex couples. For instance, if Sue Xxxxx (edit: that's my brother's ex) wanted to marry her 'girlfriend', she could. Then she would have all the legal rights of regular married couples, including petitioning the court to raise her children in that home. It would also give her adoption rights, so that the two women (or men, as the case might be) could adopt babies and raise them in that sexually 'anything goes' environment. You do realize that incest among adopted or step-children is five times that of birth children, right?

Again, i'm going to say that because of your beliefs you think this is objectionable.. but gay marriage should NOT be an issue at all in this country. And the fallacy in this arguement is horrible. Gay marriage would allow more families able to adopt... the same number of children still need homes.

Originally posted by wasions

Kerry has stated that he'll send more soldiers to Iraq. Many of the soldiers in the military today have stated that if Kerry is elected, they won't reenlist. They don't want to work for the man who caused the suffering of so many American prisoners of war during the Vietnam years. That means that Kerry will have to reinstate the draft. Yes, he's been saying that of Bush, but the Republicans have never hinted that it would be necessary. The Democrats are already planning to do it, if necessary, and of course, it will be necessary under their leadership.

As the father of two Vietnam veterans, you should be ashamed of Kerry, and the spectacle he made in 1969. Until a month ago, his photograph was hanging among the heroes of the Vietnam war - in Hanoi! His book, 'The New Soldier', was read aloud to American prisoners of war in POW camps as evidence of their 'crimes' as they were being tortured.

That's enough for now.

Regardless of how the vote turns out, Kerry is not MY president.

Love ya,
Steve

Dad's state appears to going to Bush. Mine has gone to Kerry. (I am so ashamed.)

I'm so ashamed that Bush is now the united states president again.. and that i'm a US citizen. i NEVER thought i'd say that. but its true... I really think we need to come up with a system that allows good, or even decent candidates a chance to get elected, rather than being given a "better of two evils" choice maybe 3 or more parties are the way to go.. but how do we get there?

Originally posted by drivemusicnow
choice maybe 3 or more parties are the way to go.. but how do we get there?

Vote third party. DUH.

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by drivemusicnow
Again, i'm going to say that because of your beliefs you think this is objectionable.. but gay marriage should NOT be an issue at all in this country. And the fallacy in this arguement is horrible. Gay marriage would allow more families able to adopt... the same number of children still need homes.

Freedom of religion. It is within christian beliefs that gay marriage is wrong. This is where the objection comes from. That's why it's an issue. You can't say it SHOULDN'T be an issue. If, in your system of belief, it's no big deal, then great. But it's an issue to a whole lot of people.

That and the abortion thing. According to christian beliefs, abortion is murder. Murder is wrong. Therefore abortion is wrong. You also can't say this shouldn't be an issue. Again, IF in your system of beliefs, it's not an issue, fine. But a whole lot of people disagree with you. So, it's an issue.

It seems that the tone in this country is that there is such thing as someone who "doesn't have a religion". That's simply not true. Religion is a system of beliefs. Atheists want everyone to think that they have no religion, but by the literal definition of religion, the belief of no religion is in itself, a religion. So then why do Christians have to yield to Atheists? Why is the religion of Atheism more important than Christianity?

If I had tons of money to throw around, I would hire some crazy smart (expensive) lawyers and get Atheism established legally as a religion. That would take care of alot of these types of problems.

Originally posted by drivemusicnow
I'm so ashamed that Bush is now the united states president again.. and that i'm a US citizen. i NEVER thought i'd say that. but its true...

I know what you mean...when I read alot of the things you write, i'm ashamed that your a U.S. citizen too.

I don't know if a third party is the solution to most of the issues...however it definetly couldn't hurt.

[Ron Mummert]

I don't know if a third party is the solution to most of the issues...however it definetly couldn't hurt. [/B][/QUOTE]


How will the electorate (us) deal with the concept that a plurality of 34% of the popular vote could control the other 66% when we're ready to jump ship to Sweden when 51% are allowed to make the rules? Just more fingerpointing & whining IMHO.

Ron.

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by Ron Mummert
How will the electorate (us) deal with the concept that a plurality of 34% of the popular vote could control the other 66% when we're ready to jump ship to Sweden when 51% are allowed to make the rules? Just more fingerpointing & whining IMHO.

Ron.

The idea behind having a third party would be that the nation could not be so polarized. Now we have two choices - right or left. With three parties there would have to be some grey...there are only two directions you can go...with three parties in the game, it should get interesting. My bet is that once we get a viable third party candidate, it will not be a matter of a 34% to 33% to 33% vote. It will be more like a 50% to 27% to 23% vote. Even if it is as close as you believe it would be, I don't think the remaining 66% would be so disenfrachised as to want to leave the country. That's the whole point of a third party...a middle-ground.

[dcarrb]

Originally posted by Shadow248
The idea behind having a third party would be that the nation could not be so polarized. Now we have two choices - right or left. With three parties there would have to be some grey...there are only two directions you can go...with three parties in the game, it should get interesting. My bet is that once we get a viable third party candidate, it will not be a matter of a 34% to 33% to 33% vote. It will be more like a 50% to 27% to 23% vote. Even if it is as close as you believe it would be, I don't think the remaining 66% would be so disenfrachised as to want to leave the country. That's the whole point of a third party...a middle-ground.

I agree. There are likely millions of American voters who are disgusted with what's happening at both extremes of the political spectrum.

dcb

These last two posts are solid gold. Support your local third party people by voting for them. IN big elections like the one we just had, I also voted third party. NAder. I don't agree with Nader on MANY things, but it isn't the point. THe point was he was the biggest third party candidate, and I want to tell the other two parties that I dislike them very much.

And for the people who think 'this was the most important election ever! I had to pick one or the other!" HOGWASH. You did not. Both sides ALWAYS tell you that it's the most important election ever... EVERY FOUR YEARS. Why? They depend on each other to exist the way they are. A solid third party would not only win, it would rock the boat that the other two are balancing on, and a lot of heads would roll. They don't want this. The two parties FEAR change. They want stability, and if you guys keep voting for them, they win.

- Jim

[drivemusicnow]

Originally posted by Shadow248


I know what you mean...when I read alot of the things you write, i'm ashamed that your a U.S. citizen too.

First i really don't think this was necessary... second of all, i believe theres MANY, MANY more people that deserve that disrespect than I do, and third you really don't seem to be in a position to hand out these criticisms..

Boondock beat me too the definition look up, but he has a decent point. however if you remember also, "religious freedom" is something we enjoy in the US... however if you look at some of the issues here.. SURE most christians are against gay marriage... so then they should not be in a gay marriage.. they shouldn't make it in issue for those who don't share the same beliefs. I understand how they don't like it, however civil rights of citizens should not be effected by religious beliefs of others. seperation of church and state if you remember. and if you look at some of the other issues bush is for, such as prayer in school commandments displayed in federal buildings, and federal funding of religious charities. all of which, i personally wouldn't mind. however MANY people of this nation would.
and my MAIN point was that his arguement was a total fallacy.

[mohrds]

Please post religious posts in the "Higher Power" thread

http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...threadid=22555

Doug