JDM Impreza EG33 Development Car

[Darren]

While trying to buy another Alcyone in Japan my agent has told me of an Impreza 5 door (hatchback not saloon) that was built by Subaru in 1993 with the EG33 engine and the same was done to a Legacy Outback.

I wonder why they waited years to put a flat 6 into a mainstream production car! More so when it's an easy swap and being done to Impreza's even today!

Another interesting bit of info the EG33 was being developed to run in a LeMans series car in the early 90's which Subaru were looking to build before being shelved in favour of the world rally programme they went into with Prodrive instead.

[Alex-svx]

Originally Posted by Darren

While trying to buy another Alcyone in Japan my agent has told me of an Impreza 5 door (hatchback not saloon) that was built by Subaru in 1993 with the EG33 engine and the same was done to a Legacy Outback.

I wonder why they waited years to put a flat 6 into a mainstream production car! More so when it's an easy swap and being done to Impreza's even today!

Another interesting bit of info the EG33 was being developed to run in a LeMans series car in the early 90's which Subaru were looking to build before being shelved in favour of the world rally programme they went into with Prodrive instead.

The legacy outback have a Flat six this also but this is a 3.0L engine.
The svx have the biggest Flat enginge to the subaru trebica came whit the 3.6L like you also find in legacy models today. But i i dont think the impreza came whit the flat six. But i dont know for sure.

[LetItSnow]

Darren, with apologies: Save for the bit about the current Impreza swaps, that all sounds fabricated.

[BoxerFanatic]

Originally Posted by Alex-svx

The legacy outback have a Flat six this also but this is a 3.0L engine.
The svx have the biggest Flat enginge to the subaru trebica came whit the 3.6L like you also find in legacy models today. But i i dont think the impreza came whit the flat six. But i dont know for sure.

Keep in mind, also...

The EZ36 is, for intents and purposes, identical in exterior dimension to the EZ30. The cylinder pitch is the same, just larger bore, and longer stroke inside the block.

The EG33 is a much larger engine block, that shares it's bore pitch with the EJ-series flat 4s, and the cylinder dimension with the EJ22.

The EZ series engine is barely longer than an EJ four-cylinder. An EG is pretty much 150% of the EJ's engine length.

Foisting an EG into an old Impreza, Forester, or Legacy/Outback based car was a challenge due to the engine's length. Most of the time it requires pushing the radiator forward.

On the other hand, the NEW cars... Like the current 2008 and newer Impreza and Forester, use a front chassis very similar, if not identical to the 2005-2009 Legacy/Outback, which do fit, and were equipped with the EZ30R engine. Since the EZ36 is not outwardly significantly different in size, and could theoretically fit.

The EZ36 may be a larger displacement motor than the EG33, but in actuality, the physical dimensions are the reverse. The EZ is significantly shorter.

I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought about putting a Tribeca or 2010+ Legacy EZ36 engine in my 2005 Legacy 5-speed, if my EJ25 were to meet an early end. Which I am NOT hoping for. *knock on wood*

[Darren]

Let it snow..... Yes they were very much fabricated as the Impreza & Outback both exist in Japan still!

As for the LeMans series (not the watered down current US version)
All of the Japanese marks built cars for LeMans and endurence racing exept Subaru (who as we all know took the rallying route with great success) in the late 80's into the mid 90's. Again the info comes from someone with close ties to Subaru development in Japan who can confirm the project.
Do your homework on the regulations at the time and the EG33 engine would have been a very viable and realistic project. Hmm does a 911 not have a flat 6 of under 3500cc and had great sucess in sports car and endurance racing???

On that note I shall restrain from leaving any further posts regarding information gained from credible sources in Japan as it would appear from previous and current remarks some people obvously know more then people who worked for Subaru and partner companies

[subbieatnz]

Originally Posted by Darren

Let it snow..... Yes they were very much fabricated as the Impreza & Outback both exist in Japan still!

As for the LeMans series (not the watered down current US version)
All of the Japanese marks built cars for LeMans and endurence racing exept Subaru (who as we all know took the rallying route with great success) in the late 80's into the mid 90's. Again the info comes from someone with close ties to Subaru development in Japan who can confirm the project.
Do your homework on the regulations at the time and the EG33 engine would have been a very viable and realistic project. Hmm does a 911 not have a flat 6 of under 3500cc and had great sucess in sports car and endurance racing???

On that note I shall restrain from leaving any further posts regarding information gained from credible sources in Japan as it would appear from previous and current remarks some people obvously know more then people who worked for Subaru and partner companies

Hey you never know they mite had tryed fitting them as a trial car for a experiment. But failed due to weight or etc?

Very kean if you can dig up any more info on this...

Ive been told a few rumours too...
I did hear Subaru had thought of going and having another attempt at going into F1 back in early 2000s after Toyota had entered.. It didnt eventuate tho..
I Do remember seeing a old Subaru promo poster and it had a concept I have never seen in any of the looking ive done.
Also subaru did produce a flat 6 prototype way back in 1981 etc

[subbieatnz]

Yummm LeMans series SVX

[1986nate]

Originally Posted by subbieatnz

Hey you never know they mite had tryed fitting them as a trial car for a experiment. But failed due to weight or etc?

Very kean if you can dig up any more info on this...

+1 Auto makers will do many different things to test out new engines or transmissions in existing cars before the final version in the car it was originally built for. However, 93 would be pretty late for anything with this type of "research". It would make more sense if they were testing it out in a different Subaru from the late 80's.

For instance, when GM built the all new 3.4 DOHC motor to go into the Lumina/Cutlass/Grand Prix, they didn't have a transmission that could stand up to the torque and power. So they actually began testing it in a FWD made camaro in the late 80's and as they broke things in the transmissions, they sent the info back to Hydramatic and they continually did this to try and build an auto that would hold up. In the end, they couldn't and they ended up "de-tuning" the engine to levels that the trans could withstand.

I would be very interested to hear the end of this and all of the info involved.

[redlinedeath]

thats really intersting, and pretty cool. you never know, back then, manufacturers were trying all sorts of different things, and scraping them, and half of the projects are nowhere to be found. look at chrysler, the daytona and awd, in the mid late 80s, they developed a 2.2l dohc awd system, which was nearly identical to that found in the dsms. sadly, it dissapeared, and no one knows much about it... except taht a few years later, the dsm was released.

anyhow, i wouldnt be surprised if they did do it.

[LetItSnow]

The test mule that we have seen in Road and Track's Guide to the New Subaru SVX is an XT. (FWIW, they'd been carrying H6s since '87.)

All told, as said above, the EG33 is plenty bigger than the EJ series engines and the EZ H6s as well (which are 0.8" longer than the EJs). You can call it an "easy swap", but there's plenty more to it than doing a WRX engine swap into a GC Impreza. The EG33 is by no means a good candidate by size for production Imprezas or Legacys of the early '90's.

It's entirely possible that they were muled up, but with the experience I have with test mules and the pictures of the aforementioned XT, it would be interesting to see if they still did exist.

As for early '90's Subaru being compared to Porsche, or for the EG33 being considered a potential endurance engine... I'll let you sort out why I'd be surprised at any of it.

I'm not trying to pass off your information as fake, but it's not a stretch to say that the LeMans bit can be tricky to swallow.

[crash_2365]

I'd really like to see more on this too.

LetItSnow, as far as the swap goes, moving a radiator foreward and a simple harness merge seems easier to me than swapping out the entire front subframe and replacing all the dash wiring

[subbieatnz]

It mite had been a special one off for one of for some one?

I know Subaru did a special one off XT6 for The big boss of Subaru NZ of the time. It was fitted with leather seats etc.. Cant remember much more than that.

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by Darren

Let it snow..... Yes they were very much fabricated as the Impreza & Outback both exist in Japan still!

As for the LeMans series (not the watered down current US version)
All of the Japanese marks built cars for LeMans and endurence racing exept Subaru (who as we all know took the rallying route with great success) in the late 80's into the mid 90's. Again the info comes from someone with close ties to Subaru development in Japan who can confirm the project.
Do your homework on the regulations at the time and the EG33 engine would have been a very viable and realistic project. Hmm does a 911 not have a flat 6 of under 3500cc and had great sucess in sports car and endurance racing???

On that note I shall restrain from leaving any further posts regarding information gained from credible sources in Japan as it would appear from previous and current remarks some people obvously know more then people who worked for Subaru and partner companies

I have to make a comment here because Darren seems to have taken exception to what was said by Let it Snow. Darren please do continue with the wonderful background information from Japan, it is much appreciated by the other 99% of us.

Originally Posted by LetItSnow

The test mule that we have seen in Road and Track's Guide to the New Subaru SVX is an XT. (FWIW, they'd been carrying H6s since '87.)

All told, as said above, the EG33 is plenty bigger than the EJ series engines and the EZ H6s as well (which are 0.8" longer than the EJs). You can call it an "easy swap", but there's plenty more to it than doing a WRX engine swap into a GC Impreza. The EG33 is by no means a good candidate by size for production Imprezas or Legacys of the early '90's.

It's entirely possible that they were muled up, but with the experience I have with test mules and the pictures of the aforementioned XT, it would be interesting to see if they still did exist.

As for early '90's Subaru being compared to Porsche, or for the EG33 being considered a potential endurance engine... I'll let you sort out why I'd be surprised at any of it.

I'm not trying to pass off your information as fake, but it's not a stretch to say that the LeMans bit can be tricky to swallow.

We get so little hard information from Japan mainly because of the language barrier that when somebody has contacts over there and brings us back information about Subaru development cars [that currently the West Coast Network people are trying to get from Japan for a museum exhibition], then perhaps it would be common courtesy not to be so dismissive until more is revealed?

We all respect people with strongly held opinions and their right to express them but with Darren's long time connection trading with Japan his statements carry weight also and deserve just as much respect.

Please bear that in mind.

Joe

[SilverSpear]

Joe is right folks. There is so much info on Japanese cars that we still don't know.

For example, last time I was back home on vacation, I went to this guy, the owner of THESE with the intention of buying the silver SVX. What I saw it that he imported a front clip of an SVX from Japan.

The peculiar part of the story is that the OEM radiator had ALUMINUM tabs instead of plastic and it didn't seem as if it is a custom job. I asked him about it, he said this is how the car got to him...

I do believe there are a lot of options available in Japan which we never saw and a lot that we will never see...

[subbieatnz]

Originally Posted by SilverSpear

I do believe there are a lot of options available in Japan which we never saw and a lot that we will never see...

Thats where a 92-97 JDM Parts manual Would come in handy if you could read what it said in Japanese.
Ive been trying to track down a NZ or even JDM Parts manual for ages.
Ive managed to pick up the whole set of SVX FSMs