Would you leave New Orleans?

I'm really torn on the issue of the forced evacuations. There are areas of the city which never flooded (or only briefly and are now dry), had relatively minor storm damage, have running water, and are basically in fairly decent shape. Many have gas stoves, and are coping well without electricity, or even have their own generators and have plenty of stocked up supplies.

So why would someone sitting comfortably on their (dry) sofa in their (intact) living room, watching TV, eating a hamburger or perhaps even a nicely grilled steak, sipping a beer or wine, want to abandon their home? Could they really be forced to leave? Is this legal, moral, ethical? Is this truly the American Way?

On the other hand, I see other folks in almost totally destroyed and still flooded areas, camping out on the remains of front porches, exposed to the elements, living only through hand-outs and barely surviving. They are prime candidates for disease and all manner of horrible possibilities. I can see the logic of getting these folks out.

Then there's the issue of trust. Most of those wanting to stay say they simply don't believe that there's any real plan to get them to someplace better. They hate the idea of being stuffed into overcrowded and possibly even more dangerous and unfamiliar environments. Better the devil you know rather than the devil you don't, so to speak.

Finally, there are pet owners who refuse to abandon their animals, and won't consider putting them in an unknown animal shelter. Can't say I really blame them. The way families got split up during the evacuations doesn't bode well for later finding and being reunited with a beloved pet.

So what's to be done? I would like to think that if my house was to all intents and purposes completely destroyed, then I'd be willing to get out. (assuming I even stayed in the first place and didn't leave before the storm)

But if I was one of the lucky ones, with a nice home high and dry, missing only a few shingles and a broken window or two, with plenty of supplies, then I'd probably want to stay, too!

When I got bored with cleaning up my property, I could go out for a drink to either Molly's or Johnny White's in the French Quarter. Both have remained open throughout the storm's aftermath. You can read about them at Reuters web site: Good times roll, sort of, in New Orleans' bars .

Then I could go shopping for new carpets. A while back, I posted in another thread a photo of an anti-looting warning sign on a carpet store. I saw an interview with the store owner a few days ago. He was getting ready to open and hoped to sell some Persian carpets to the soldiers and other folks now working in New Orleans. His store and stock are relatively undamaged, and I'm sure there are others similarly ready to get back to business.

I really don't know what the right answer is. So I'm wondering:
If your house was still livable, and in decent shape... would you leave? (assuming you had any choice and weren't threatened with being tied up or handcuffed and thrown out)

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Bipa

I'm really torn on the issue of the forced evacuations. There are areas of the city which never flooded (or only briefly and are now dry), had relatively minor storm damage, have running water, and are basically in fairly decent shape. Many have gas stoves, and are coping well without electricity, or even have their own generators and have plenty of stocked up supplies.

So why would someone sitting comfortably on their (dry) sofa in their (intact) living room, watching TV, eating a hamburger or perhaps even a nicely grilled steak, sipping a beer or wine, want to abandon their home? Could they really be forced to leave? Is this legal, moral, ethical? Is this truly the American Way?

On the other hand, I see other folks in almost totally destroyed and still flooded areas, camping out on the remains of front porches, exposed to the elements, living only through hand-outs and barely surviving. They are prime candidates for disease and all manner of horrible possibilities. I can see the logic of getting these folks out.

Then there's the issue of trust. Most of those wanting to stay say they simply don't believe that there's any real plan to get them to someplace better. They hate the idea of being stuffed into overcrowded and possibly even more dangerous and unfamiliar environments. Better the devil you know rather than the devil you don't, so to speak.

Finally, there are pet owners who refuse to abandon their animals, and won't consider putting them in an unknown animal shelter. Can't say I really blame them. The way families got split up during the evacuations doesn't bode well for later finding and being reunited with a beloved pet.

So what's to be done? I would like to think that if my house was to all intents and purposes completely destroyed, then I'd be willing to get out. (assuming I even stayed in the first place and didn't leave before the storm)

But if I was one of the lucky ones, with a nice home high and dry, missing only a few shingles and a broken window or two, with plenty of supplies, then I'd probably want to stay, too!

When I got bored with cleaning up my property, I could go out for a drink to either Molly's or Johnny White's in the French Quarter. Both have remained open throughout the storm's aftermath. You can read about them at Reuters web site: Good times roll, sort of, in New Orleans' bars .

Then I could go shopping for new carpets. A while back, I posted in another thread a photo of an anti-looting warning sign on a carpet store. I saw an interview with the store owner a few days ago. He was getting ready to open and hoped to sell some Persian carpets to the soldiers and other folks now working in New Orleans. His store and stock are relatively undamaged, and I'm sure there are others similarly ready to get back to business.

I really don't know what the right answer is. So I'm wondering:
If your house was still livable, and in decent shape... would you leave? (assuming you had any choice and weren't threatened with being tied up or handcuffed and thrown out)

it depends i guess. depends on if there are jobs available. if not, i'd move. unless i was filthy rich.

[mohrds]

It depends on how clean the neighborhood is. Yes I may be safe and dry, but are there toxins within a hounded feet of me?

I'd be tempted to stay if I had adequate supplies and a satellite TV/Internet system along with generator.

Do they have the right to force me out? Probably, but If I'm in a safe and sound environment, then I don't feel it is right.

The question is what percentage fit in the well supplied and safe versus how many in medical danger catagories?

Doug

[ensteele]

I don't really think that they would force a person out if they were as well off as you describe. The ones that are still wanting to stay are in a very bad area with water and disease all around them and they have very limited supplies. They are starting to find many of these people are starting to want to leave now. It is a very difficult situation at best.

It's a horrible situation for many if not most. But there are areas relatively untouched. And heck, as of two days ago, the Sheraton Hotel in New Orleans was back on the city electrical grid, so that is coming back online, too. So please don't be deluded into thinking that "The ones that are still wanting to stay are in a very bad area with water and disease all around them and they have very limited supplies. " There are quite a few exceptions.

Starwood Hotels have been keeping a "diary" of updates:
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/info/l...WH_Katrina_WNO
September 7, 2005

The recovery process for our hotels continues to move forward at a good pace. The Sheraton New Orleans is no longer being powered by generators and is on the city's grid. The W New Orleans and W French Quarter continue to operate with generators and will soon be on-line with electrical power provided by the city. We are removing glass from damaged areas. Trucks arrived today from Baton Rouge to pick up laundry from the hotels and will be delivering clean linens.

To meet the needs of emergency workers, the first floor gift shop of the Sheraton New Orleans has been turned in to an infirmary and is staffed by doctors and nurses to administer inoculations and health services. Additionally, all hotel associates and recovery staff were given the opportunity to receive Hepatitis A, Hepatitis B and Tetanus shots.

We believe we our hotels will be fully functional before all others. There is a tremendous need to provide safe, secure and quality housing for those involved in the city's recovery efforts and we are working to meet that mounting demand.

While other hotels in New Orleans were still evacuating or were abandoned during the first week of the flooding, Starwood's on-site team managed to safely evacuate guests and non-essential associates, arranged for generators to power the three hotels, brought in water and brought back more than 70 associates to assist with recovery efforts.

With multiple 20,000 gallon trucks of water on site at the Sheraton our associates reached a milestone when they were able to take brief showers and flush toilets!

In addition, Robear Hamada, Food & Beverage Director who returned to the Sheraton New Orleans earlier this week, has proven to be very resourceful and creative in providing hot meals to the hotel staff and contractors to keep their energy levels at a maximum.

...more on the web site

[Mr. Pockets]

I have a hard time understading the people who refuse to leave. I suppose, as Doug said, if I had running water and electrocity and stuff I'd be reluctant to leave. But the thing is, even if you're okay inside your own house, the situation outside your house is not okay. Never mind that nobody is going to have a job to go back to for a very, very long time - basic services are just not functioning. There's just no reason to stay.

Of course, I wouldn't have lived there before the hurricane, either - and specifically because this was bound to happen eventually. That city was a disaster waiting to happen, whether the executive branch of our federal government admits that or not.

[Landshark]

i would stay and l00t, because Celine Dion said it's OK.

[mohrds]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pockets

That city was a disaster waiting to happen, whether the executive branch of our federal government admits that or not.

hey now lets not get political here. If we do, we have to be honest and look at the real problem. You have a mayor that didn't realize that over 100,000 of his residents didn't have the funds to evacuate themselves so there was no public transportation system used to save lives. Then you have a Governor and a state disaster response team that didn't even dispatch their own State police until 2 days AFTER the hurricane. Now I don't claim to be a disaster planning expert, but I would have had extra law enforcement and other state personnel in a safe location near the city BEFORE the hurricane struck.

Then lets talk about the levies. They city and state failed to perform maintenance over the last several decades and then when they decide to do something, they insist that the federal government pick up the entire $60M bill. The feds said "no" as I would have expected, so the state just scrapped the plan instead of paying for it themselves.

Wisconsin may be a backward state, but at least we pay for our own repairs when needed. A few years ago, the state spent about $30M on infrastructure upgrades that weren't paid for by the feds.

The Bush haters are all over this one, trying to pin the blame on him. The state and local governments deserve 95% of the blame, not the Federal Govt.

Besides, if the feds had stepped in right away and told the state to "step aside, this is no way to run a disaster.", then the Bush haters would have complained that the feds "invaded" the area without regard for the local authority.

Its a lose/lose situation.

Doug

[Royal Tiger]

Doug, once angain you and I agree. At what point is it the governments job to take care of me? You have a heavy liberal democratic area that believe it's ok to be a 7th generation welfare recepient. There was a story on ABC the other day when I got home about a 6 year old that was reunited with his mother. She left him with a neighbor because he was the OLDEST of her 5 kids and she was tied up with the other 4. No mention of any father figure. Now no one comes by with a free check and they are devestated. Welfare should be a 3 year program. Get back on your feet, or oh well.

[Beav]

Almost every geographical location has some sort of natural disaster lurking. Whether it be flood, hurricane, landslide, earthquake, tornado, etc. True, some areas are more prone. The Netherlands is relatively safe even though much of it is reclaimed from the sea (as far as my geography teachers told me many years ago) yet an unforseen/unexpected Atlantic Ocean disturbance could create a tsunami that would devastate the country. So, what if an undersea event created a tsunami that wiped out New Orleans, or the entire Gulf coast for that matter? Or what happened not sso long ago, flooding on the northern Mississippi that later floods the southern parishes from the opposite direction? What will happen if the New Madrid fault gives way again? Are the people living along the Ohio and Mississippi going to be considered as careless?

Considering those that are relatively undamaged and wanting to stay return: are they there just for personal reasons or are they there in order to take part of the massive clean-up and repair that will be required? The infrastructure that they rely upon for supplies, etc. will be slow in returning to normal capacity. If they are part of that and they have a desire to be there in support of rebuilding then I applaud them for staying. There will be much to do and those that are a part of the restoration will most definitely need the support of merchants, etc.

Areas that have suffered wipespread devastation don't need criticism from those unaffected. There is no way anyone not directly affected or on the front lines can even begin to comprehend what is going on or how their personal emotions would run. These people need understanding and support, nature has ravished them. What nature has just dealt out is no different than knowing that a certain percentage of people you see on the sidewalk each day could be a rapist, mugger or murderer. Most days it happens to someone else but we all know that on any given day it might be our turn in the barrel.

Lighten up and pray for them. If you think things aren't progressing perfectly do something constructive, criticism won't repair a single thing.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Landshark

i would stay and l00t, because Celine Dion said it's OK.

i got your back mang......'true crime' style

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Beav

Almost every geographical location has some sort of natural disaster lurking. Whether it be flood, hurricane, landslide, earthquake, tornado, etc. True, some areas are more prone.

happens every year somewhere around the world. its just not covered in the news because the media doesn't feel it's important.

[Whoru465]

Originally Posted by Beav

Almost every geographical location has some sort of natural disaster lurking...Most days it happens to someone else but we all know that on any given day it might be our turn in the barrel...

Lighten up and pray for them. If you think things aren't progressing perfectly do something constructive, criticism won't repair a single thing.

I have to agree. It wouldn't take much of a quake to liquify 80% of downtown Boston but what can you do, pack up and move the city west? Boston, like N.O. or the towns in the flood belt, or any other place on earth is vulnerable to a natural disaster. Out of that destruction lives were changed, a lot for the worse, but quite possibly some for the better. The job is to not lay blame, but to learn and move forward. Just a though...

[Beav]

Another consideration is that many of the people that stayed behind are life-long residents. Many of them may have never ventured twenty miles from their homes. When you consider how that plays with the aged, infirm and/or living at or below poverty level you can begin to understand their reluctance to leave. Where will I go, how will I get there? Once I'm somewhere else how will I get back? Will there be anywhere for me to return to? Once I get somewhere how will I survive? What if I go somewhere and it becomes a situation of "We're tired of helping, you have to find somewhere else to go now." I know my neighbors, doctors, care-takers, etc. here, how will I cope elsewhere? A million more questions to ponder in a short time. There's a lot more to be scared about than just the storm.

That crap segment with Richard Simmons on ET last night (not a regular viewer, just caught it while flicking through)just about made me blow my grits. Crying over his brother, who was sleeping in a comfy bed, several hundred miles away from ground zero was nothing more than a blatant media ploy and should be considered as vile as kicking the crutches out from under a one-legged person.

Maybe we should also pray for those that only have compassion for their own pocketbooks.

Sidebar: Wouldn't it be an amazing change if the right to vote were dependent upon a citizen's fulfillment of 2-3 hours of community service each week? If you don't care enough to do your part, screw you, you don't have the right to be heard.

The funny thing is those that need help most would be the ones most happy to pitch in. The reverse of that is the ones that need help the least would also be the ones least likely to get on board. "I'm happy and content (and selfish and lazy and...), why should I have to do anything?"

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally Posted by mohrds

The Bush haters are all over this one, trying to pin the blame on him. The state and local governments deserve 95% of the blame, not the Federal Govt.

Doug, you need to calm the hell down. I didn't blame anybody for anything, did I? I was simply referring to the chief's quote about 'nobody' expecting the levees to break. Stop being so defensive. It was a stupid thing for him to say, considering the body of research done on exactly that possibility, but that's where my comment ends.

I'm not interested in placing blame. I've heard many sides to many stories of many situations in the Gulf Coast. It's chaos and trying to determine who's right and who isn't is impossible for me - especially when I have as little time to devote to it as I do.