Level 10 update?

[svxistentialist]

Yeah, Phil, I am sure you are right, bet the same kit fits both.

It can be infuriating at times when a part for one year in a car is non-interchangeable with the next because of upgrades.

Against that, I had no trouble getting a flex plate for my SVX locally. This is because I quoted them the part number from the States, and the chassis number. When it came, it had a strip on it marked as EJ25..... This to me means the same plate fits the Legacy Outback with the 2.5 litre engine. These Outbacks are pretty common, so you win some of the time.

Joe

[svxistentialist]

Mostly bad news at the minute Phil. The car is in a workshop, specialists who tune WRXs, Evos etc. Not running properly at all. The company in Japan did change the plugs as promised, but the misfire is caused by a duff coil.

The SVX coil won't work. The connector plug on the SVX has two connections, two wires, a live and a signal wire. This is the same coils as used in the WRX apparently, in case anyone gets trouble in the future.

The GT Legacy on the other hand has a connector with three wires, so it is not too easy to plug and play with SVX gear. Without the engine running properly, it is meaningless to check out boost etc., so I am hoping to try and source one this week.

On a more negative note, Ian who is checking the engine for me says it also has a metallic loud noise, which he thinks is a chipped piston. Am in negotiation with the sellers in Japan at present to try and sort this out.

Let you know when [and if! ] I get to drive it. Getting more trouble than I bargained for. On a better note, the car itself is really nice, I am looking forward to getting it sorted.

Joe

[b3lha]

The 350Z thing was une herring rouge.

I opened the box and inside there's a pack clearly labelled "Level 10 overhaul kit for Subaru 4 speed 1988-98".

The pack contains literally dozens of seals, gaskets and o-rings branded "Transtec" (http://www.transtec.com) and stacks of clutch plates branded "Raybestos" (http://www.raybestosproducts.com).

It was all wrapped up in some sort of hot-rodding newspaper with articles about large overweight american cars and supercharged V8 engines.

I'm now reading all the postings about transmission coolers and filters. I'm trying to reconcile all the differing opinions about the best one to get, where to mount it and how to connect it.

I plan to flush out the radiator cooler myself (just to make sure it's done) then install the aftermarket cooler before getting the transmission rebuilt.

[svxistentialist]

Maybe you should have asked them for a Level 11 kit, the way you drive!!

I'm a little amazed you did not have a tranny cooler fitted already.

There are three different ways to fit a cooler;

A: Disconnect and bypass the old cooler in the rad altogether by putting a new cooler in front of the rad.

B: Put a new cooler in place as above [or sandwiched between the radiator and the A/C rad], and plumb it in parallel with the lines going to the OE rad oil cooler.

C: Put a new cooler in place as at A or B, but connect it into the line from the tranny to the OE cooler, i.e. plumbed in series with the rad oil cooler. It can be before or after the OE version, depending how you pipe it.

Each of these ways have advantages and disadvantages, the method I least like is A.

Joe

[b3lha]

Hi Joe,

It seems like everyone here is using an air to oil cooler rather than water to oil. I don't think it would be much more difficult to plumb in a water to oil cooler. But I'll probably go with the tested solution rather than trying to pioneer something.

I'm not planning on bypassing the stock cooler because I had the radiator replaced last time, and I'm fairly sure the cooler isn't badly blocked. I'll just flush it out.

The parallel option seems pointless if you have a filter.

I think my preferred option so far is to plumb in series, filter then new cooler then stock cooler.

I haven't yet decided where to position the cooler. The area between the condenser and the rad looks like a tight fit and some people think that the condenser will heat the tranny fluid. The area up under the battery (ala motorsportswarehouse) looks tempting but may require a bit of clever ducting to ensure sufficient airflow. Maybe there are other places I could put it depending on the size/shape of the cooler. I'm going to have a good look when I get the chance.

[Andy]

I am a parallel fan, and as a fluid dynamics engineer (plumber) I was concerned that the series route would give a higher resistance to flow, therefore a reduction in the volume of fluid, whereas a parallel arrangement reduces resistance therefore increases flow.

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by b3lha
Hi Joe,

It seems like everyone here is using an air to oil cooler rather than water to oil. I don't think it would be much more difficult to plumb in a water to oil cooler. But I'll probably go with the tested solution rather than trying to pioneer something.

Oil to coolant is obviously the better type, more efficient. I looked at this option also, and the deficiencies of the air to oil types were not enough in a road application to bother with the difficulty, cost and complexity of the liquid/liquid models

I'm not planning on bypassing the stock cooler because I had the radiator replaced last time, and I'm fairly sure the cooler isn't badly blocked. I'll just flush it out.

The parallel option seems pointless if you have a filter.

The major downside of the series install is that the stock cooler, the early model with the turbolator fins in the inlet to disrupt laminar flow, that it could clog up sufficiently to reduce or stop fluid flow, and catastrophically impair cooling. If you are happy it is clear, then it is less of a problem, but refer to Andy's point.

I think my preferred option so far is to plumb in series, filter then new cooler then stock cooler.

This is the preferred option of most of the technicians. It's presumed the filter will take out all gunge before it causes the reduced flow problem. More importantly, it allows the oil through the stock liquid/liquid cooler last, and so will bring the oil up to proper operating temperature on cold days. As you know, if the oil is cooled too much, it will cause problems, jerky shifts, no lock-up, increased fuel consumption etc.

I haven't yet decided where to position the cooler. The area between the condenser and the rad looks like a tight fit and some people think that the condenser will heat the tranny fluid.

I am using a 19,000 lbs rated Supercooler, and it fits nicely between the rad and the condenser. It has a clever system of sending most of the oil back to the tranny to allow it to heat up when cold. The higher viscosity cold oil is not able to access the cooling galleries till it heats up and thins out. This is simple, but an elegant solution. It allows the oil to heat up quickly to optimum temperature. To the best of my knowledge, the heat from the condenser only serves to maintain this optimal temperature range. Don't forget, when the A/C is on, the A/C cooling fan is forcing cooling air through the whole matrix.


The area up under the battery (ala motorsportswarehouse) looks tempting but may require a bit of clever ducting to ensure sufficient airflow. Maybe there are other places I could put it depending on the size/shape of the cooler. I'm going to have a good look when I get the chance.

Like Andy, I prefer the parallel option. It may seem pointless, but putting two extra restrictors in series in the line must reduce or hamper oil flow, and if you are wrong about the turbolator being clear, and the stock cooler clogs, you will know nothing about it till the box burns up like yours did. The additional cooler is of no use without oil flowing through it. With the parallel set-up, even if the stock cooler gunged up, it will work away on the auxiliary cooler, belt and braces approach for the cost of two extra pipes.

Joe

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by Andy
I am a parallel fan, and as a fluid dynamics engineer (plumber) I was concerned that the series route would give a higher resistance to flow, therefore a reduction in the volume of fluid, whereas a parallel arrangement reduces resistance therefore increases flow.

I agree with you Andy that parallel is the better way, primarily because the whole thing is held together by the ability of the stock oil pump in the box to pump oil fast enough to give sufficient cooling capability to get rid of dangerous high heat spikes.

Add restrictors into that line without uprating the pumps rated flow per minute capability, you must be increasing pressure, therefore reducing flow, therefore reducing cooling capabilty at peak stress times. Which is the opposite of what you are trying to do. QED.

I used to think the parallel set-up would reduce pressure and increase flow, but I don't any more. It would if you increased the diameter [cross-sectional area] of the return line into the box. What it does achieve is reduces the possibility of creating extra back-pressure by allowing unrestricted free flow back to the return line.

If memory serves me right, one of the Level 10 upgrades is aimed at widening passages in the box to improve flow rates, and maybe even changing the pump or increasing the pump pressure. Phil, can you confirm if this is correct? I seem to remember Randy sending his tranny to Level 10 to have this increased oil flow modification.

Joe

[Arthur-UK]

Has anyone actually measured the temperature of the oil ?
Do we know what the upper limit is ?
If this was monitored in the cab it would give the best possible warning of trouble.

The temp sensor in the gearbox is probably a thermistor (resistance varies with temp), with a bit of ingenuity it could be harnessed to drive a display. Anyone got a circuit diagram showing the sensor ?

A cruder method would be to use a T joint in the external pipework and fit a bog standard Smiths Gauge with capilliary type Oil temp sender, MG style.

Arthur

[svxistentialist]

Some of the guys in the US have fitted gauges Arthur.

When you fit a filter, the base of the filter can come with a connection point for an oil gauge. You can go capillary or electronic.

There is a lot of information on what harm happens at very high temperatures. Essentially the ability of the oil to carry heat out of the box gets compromised. Extra heat loads then degrade/destroy the friction material, the box dies. This non-virtuous cycle is probably what killed Phil's Level 10 box recently.

I remember one or two fitting oil temp gauges before fitting a cooler. In those cases, the extreme temperatures they saw caused them to fit a cooler ASAP.

Joe

[Bobb]

Hi everyone, There is a schematic of a set up with shut off valves that allow you to have extra cooling in the summer and normal cooling the rest of the year. You want to keep the water/oil setup as it helps the tranny fluid to reach operating temp faster in cool/cold weather. The 4EAT will not shift into fourth untill it reaches a certain temp and it will not go into lockup mode untill it reaches operating temp. For myself, I think bypassing the cooler in the radiator is a bad idea. Only part of the tranny fluid goes through the cooler at any one time. It is not a full flow setup. Take care, BOBB

[b3lha]

Originally posted by svxistentialist
If memory serves me right, one of the Level 10 upgrades is aimed at widening passages in the box to improve flow rates, and maybe even changing the pump or increasing the pump pressure. Phil, can you confirm if this is correct? I seem to remember Randy sending his tranny to Level 10 to have this increased oil flow modification.

Yes, I believe so. I can't say for sure what they do, but I remember a discussion on the yahoo site where it was claimed that they widen some passages and fit a bigger pump.

I think somebody once posted a mod showing common clog points in the gearbox oilways and where to drill to alleviate them.

I emailed Level 10 yesterday for their opinion on coolers and filters. Got a reply this morning.

Email from me to Level 10

Do you think it is worthwhile to install an aftermarket transmission cooler and filter? If so, is there a particular one you would recommend? Would you install it in series/parallel/instead of the stock cooler?
It has been suggested to me to take the output pipe from the transmission, through a filter, then the aftermarket cooler (air/oil), then the stock cooler (water/oil), then back to the transmission.
Is this a sensible course of action?

Reply from Level 10 to me

The cooler must be rated at 24,000 gvw.I don't recommend a filter.The best way to run cooler is from stock cooler to the 24,000 gvw cooler to the rear coolerline on gearbox.

I know there are a lot of arguments disputing this advice, but as I am not an expert, I'm willing to defer to their expertise. If it doesn't work I'll try it another way next time.

Phil.

[b3lha]

Based on Level 10's recommendation, I've just ordered a B&M 70264 cooler. It's rated at 24000gvw, and is the same technology as the 70268 favoured by many on this site.

It's about the same length and width as the 70268, but twice as thick. So I'm not sure if it will fit between the radiator and condenser. Nevertheless I will find a place for it somewhere.

Phil.

[svxistentialist]

Good Phil

That's the same type as mine, only bigger. You will be siting it in front of the condenser so. Mine is in the sandwich position, anything thicker would not fit in there.

Garage just rang me back to say the Legacy is going good. There is engine noise, he thinks it may have been caused by petrol wash in the cylinder that was not firing. No way of knowing how long it would stay going without engine work. I am going to put it on the road, and see what I think it might need. Obviously I will change oil and filter and stuff.

Joe

[b3lha]

Our cooler arrived on Tuesday. Looks nice and shiny - but also rather large. I'm don't think it will fit in front of the condenser. But I'll take the bumper off at the weekend and have a better look.

I'm beginning to regret having said..

Originally posted by b3lha
Nevertheless I will find a place for it somewhere.

I haven't seen any instructions regarding which way up to mount the cooler. My first thought was to mount it with the pipes downwards so that it can be drained and flushed without removal.

But then I thought that it will be easier to bleed the air out if the pipes are facing upwards. Plus there's less chance of silt building up around the inlet and outlet pipes.

Then I thought about mounting it on it's side with the inlet at the bottom and the outlet at the top. I think this is my favourite. Easy to bleed, easy to drain and since the vanes will be vertical, maybe gravity will help pull any silt down to the bottom rather than settling in them.

What do you reckon ?