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  #16  
Old 10-29-2002, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ron Mummert
If they made a car that would be simple to work on and made sense we wouldn't be able to afford to buy it after they compensated for all the service money they'd lose in the deal.
Bingo, Johnny - American econonics 101.

I wonder what that Epson printer that was virtually given away would cost if the ink cartridges sold for the two bucks they're actually worth?

Ron. [/B][/QUOTE]

Ah, yes...the American economics conspiracy theories. We get 'em, too.

'But it only costs you $1 to stamp out those DVDs - why are you charging me $50 for it?'

Because the content cost us millions to make, genius.

Making a car like the SVX and then also making sure that everything was user-servicable is bad for a few reasons. First of all is the idea of making to car user-servicable - the vast majority of users don't know which way to hold a screwdriver.

Then there's the simple matter of adding that extra layer of complexity to the design process.

'Hey, nice engine. Please make it perform the same, but move the spark plugs to a more convenient location.'

DOH!

The last point I'll make is actually related to the first. If somebody at home isn't qualified to service something, but it's convenient for him to do, the problem is that he might try it. Then he breaks the car, hassles the manufacturer for a free replacement, the manufacturer gets a bad rep...etc, etc...

That's not a reason for making something difficult to work on so much as it is a reason for not bothering to make it easy to work on.

Just because a design or a product has a drawback, like adjustments that are difficult to reach, doesn't mean that those drawbacks were intentional.
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Last edited by Mr. Pockets; 10-29-2002 at 09:29 AM.
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  #17  
Old 10-29-2002, 12:37 PM
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Re: Re: My tranny's 10 lives

Quote:
Originally posted by Landshark


i'm not sure you want to just "experiment" with this - here's the procedure from the Chilton's manual:

..tighten the adjusting screw to 18 ft-lbs (25 Nm), then turn it back exactly 3/4 turn.
There are at least three different write-ups on this I think the torque procedure is best for when the trans is out, after a rebuild. If you ever do this you will realize how long it takes to turn that adjusting screw. 3/4 of a turn at time is a bargain.
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  #18  
Old 10-29-2002, 05:00 PM
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Re: Re: Re: My tranny's 10 lives

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Originally posted by svx_commuter


There are at least three different write-ups on this I think the torque procedure is best for when the trans is out, after a rebuild. If you ever do this you will realize how long it takes to turn that adjusting screw. 3/4 of a turn at time is a bargain.
True, didn't think about that. Chilton's procedure for the PCV valve was - ......remove valve, replace. YEAH, RIGHT!
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  #19  
Old 10-31-2002, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Pockets

Just because a design or a product has a drawback, like adjustments that are difficult to reach, doesn't mean that those drawbacks were intentional.
I'm well aware that most aren't intentionally difficult to work on. Hell, if they wanted to be difficult they would not have put on any external adjustment on the tranny and would make you pull it and crack the case to do any work on it at all. My "dream" of a simple ratcheting dial to adjust the transmission bands is simply a "wouldn't it be cool if..." thing. I'm well aware that there are limits to what should be done in the effort to make things easy to work on. Could certain things be made easier to work on without compromising their function? Sure...some things.

The reason torx screw drivers are relatively common place now is all thanks to General Motors (I just know there is someone who will argue this). Back before anyone really could get their hands on a torx screwdriver at the hardware store, GM was using torx screws on nearly everything in their cars, includiing simple things like headlight adjustment screws. Why were these chosen over common philips screws? Certainly not because they would perform any better. Because only the Mr. Goodwrench had torx screw drivers at the time and even competent garage mechanics didn't always have access to them. Simple adjustments that a car owner like you or I takes for granted couldn't be done without a trip to the dealer. Since then they've become common place tools, but for a time it worked. Some auto manufacturers make it simple to get to fasteners to take things apart or gain access to things. A different manufacturer will make it nearly impossible to get at the same thing without special tools. Is it out of engineering necessity? I think not, since the other manufacturer can acheive the same function without the need for special tools.

In Subarus defense, I would not want anyone f'ing with their transmissions who didn't know what they were doing and expecting me to warranty it for them. Everything you said makes perfect sense but let's not deny that some manufacturers do go out of their way to make it difficult for a shadetree mechanic to work on their vehicles, just like their are some who go out of their way to make them easy to work on.
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  #20  
Old 04-05-2003, 03:41 PM
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Thanks to the wonderful folks on this forum (and specifically to Mr Pockets, Ken?, recent post), I tried this method of dealing with a light throttle flare on 2-3 and got great results so far. I would like to add a point or two:

On the SVX you may want to look at the Subaru web page reference to band adjustment... http://www.endwrench.com/pdf/drivetr...ustInfoW98.pdf

Of interest is they state three turns to back off from a properly torqued adjuster. ALthough I don't have the FSM, I seem to remember folks saying it was 2 turns.

They also recommend doing it from on top, although they want the tranny lowered as much as possible, i.e., exhaust off and mount lowered/removed (I forget).

I did mine without removing anything (no wires disconnected, no starter removal), just a trouble light, along with the 17mm and 7mm wrenches mentioned in the first post. Was a pain to get the 7mm wrench on the adjuster, can't see it when my hand is in there, just did it by feel. Didn't time myself, but 15 or 20 minutes seems right from hood up to hood down.
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  #21  
Old 08-29-2003, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CigarJohnny


The reason torx screw drivers are relatively common place now is all thanks to General Motors (I just know there is someone who will argue this). Back before anyone really could get their hands on a torx screwdriver at the hardware store, GM was using torx screws on nearly everything in their cars, includiing simple things like headlight adjustment screws. Why were these chosen over common philips screws? Certainly not because they would perform any better. Because only the Mr. Goodwrench had torx screw drivers at the time and even competent garage mechanics didn't always have access to them. Simple adjustments that a car owner like you or I takes for granted couldn't be done without a trip to the dealer. Since then they've become common place tools, but for a time it worked. Some auto manufacturers make it simple to get to fasteners to take things apart or gain access to things. A different manufacturer will make it nearly impossible to get at the same thing without special tools. Is it out of engineering necessity? I think not, since the other manufacturer can acheive the same function without the need for special tools.

And after the Torx became easily attainable, out comes the tamper-proof Torx.
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  #22  
Old 08-29-2003, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CigarJohnny



The reason torx screw drivers are relatively common place now is all thanks to General Motors (I just know there is someone who will argue this). Back before anyone really could get their hands on a torx screwdriver at the hardware store, GM was using torx screws on nearly everything in their cars, including simple things like headlight adjustment screws. Why were these chosen over common Phillips screws? Certainly not because they would perform any better. Because only the Mr. Goodwrench had torx screw drivers at the time and even competent garage mechanics didn't always have access to them.
Hi Johnny, I just had to comment on this.
The reason the auto makers changed to the Torx fasteners was due to the greater use of robotics to assemble cars. Torx are much easier for the automated assembly machines to keep on the tools.
Plus the are way better than a phillips ever was,less prone to stripping.
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  #23  
Old 08-29-2003, 10:54 AM
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FWIW - band adjustment

FWIW, and any comments - I asked a Subaru mechanic I use/used (before I got stupid and decided to do most of the stuff myself) about the band adjustment (mine occassionally revs @ low speed), and he said he was hesitant to do it given the thinness of the band itself, and wearing it out sooner as a result of the tightening on top of normal wear and tear.

He commented that the band is .0040 thick when new, which seems reasonably thick to me.

Has anyone noticed what kind of wear there is on the band when a trans has been rebuilt at 80-100K? Or had a premature fry of the band after adjusting?
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  #24  
Old 08-30-2003, 11:40 PM
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Re: FWIW - band adjustment

Quote:
Originally posted by Robar
FWIW, and any comments - I asked a Subaru mechanic I use/used (before I got stupid and decided to do most of the stuff myself) about the band adjustment (mine occassionally revs @ low speed), and he said he was hesitant to do it given the thinness of the band itself, and wearing it out sooner as a result of the tightening on top of normal wear and tear.

He commented that the band is .0040 thick when new, which seems reasonably thick to me.

Has anyone noticed what kind of wear there is on the band when a trans has been rebuilt at 80-100K? Or had a premature fry of the band after adjusting?
That's a really good question. And how weird that, after weeks of not being on the network, I come back to see one of my 14-month-old threads revived.

I'll see everybody in another few days - my first day at my new job is Tuesday - woohoo!
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  #25  
Old 08-31-2003, 08:00 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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Re: FWIW - band adjustment

Quote:
Originally posted by Robar
FWIW, and any comments - I asked a Subaru mechanic I use/used (before I got stupid and decided to do most of the stuff myself) about the band adjustment (mine occassionally revs @ low speed), and he said he was hesitant to do it given the thinness of the band itself, and wearing it out sooner as a result of the tightening on top of normal wear and tear.

He commented that the band is .0040 thick when new, which seems reasonably thick to me.

Has anyone noticed what kind of wear there is on the band when a trans has been rebuilt at 80-100K? Or had a premature fry of the band after adjusting?
The band is a lot thicker than that. I would say about .100".
The gear box maker would not have provided an adjuster if there was a problem with adjusting it.

Adjusting the band will prevent it from burning up.

Harvey.
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  #26  
Old 09-01-2003, 02:08 AM
Robar Robar is offline
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Tranny band

Thanks for the input on the thickness, if its .100 or so, it would certainly be more forgiving. Is this an educated guess, or have you seen one?

I prefer to use caution assuming that the suppliers would not provide a component if there was going to be trouble with it. Seems there are enough recalls in the automotive industry to void that idea, and I have had enough personal experience with OEM product development to know better.

However, I hope your assumption is correct, but have gone thru enough wheel bearings and window lift clips to know that they got a few pieces that did not pan out as engineered.
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  #27  
Old 09-01-2003, 04:14 PM
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Re: Tranny band

Quote:
Originally posted by Robar
Thanks for the input on the thickness, if its .100 or so, it would certainly be more forgiving. Is this an educated guess, or have you seen one?

I prefer to use caution assuming that the suppliers would not provide a component if there was going to be trouble with it. Seems there are enough recalls in the automotive industry to void that idea, and I have had enough personal experience with OEM product development to know better.

However, I hope your assumption is correct, but have gone thru enough wheel bearings and window lift clips to know that they got a few pieces that did not pan out as engineered.
Hi Robar, No I have not seen the band out of the SVX box. I have seen many bands out of other auto boxs, built by the Jap box builders and that is the type of band and material that is used.

The internals of this box are the same as they build for the other car builders. Adjust and relax.

Harvey.
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  #28  
Old 09-01-2003, 04:51 PM
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Hi Robar I really do not agree with the tech you were talking with. Adjusting the band will not make it wear out sooner. NOT adjusting it and having it slip WILL allow it to wear faster. The band is tensioned by a hydraulic cyclinder. The force on the band does not change with the adjustment it just keeps it from slipping. No slipping no wear.
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