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  #16  
Old 08-09-2009, 06:16 PM
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Re: US over to europan.

wait a sec, I just had a thought that might just work....

When we did the PhaseII 4eat swap we need to use a speedo corrector to slow down the pulse for the #2 speed sensor so the ECU TCU and Speedo were not winding WAY out. What if we wired this inline to ONLY the TCU speed sensor #2 input into a US TCU. Everything else being as it was in the car but adding this and adjusting pulse signal down to normal readings for a US VSS#2. He would need a Select monitor to monitor the TCU's reading to adjust it properly but it should work and allow him to use the US TCU and will fix the issue.

The biggest problem is he would need to find someone capable of doing it

Tom
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  #17  
Old 08-09-2009, 06:28 PM
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Re: US over to europan.

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Originally Posted by TomsSVX View Post
wait a sec, I just had a thought that might just work....

When we did the PhaseII 4eat swap we need to use a speedo corrector to slow down the pulse for the #2 speed sensor so the ECU TCU and Speedo were not winding WAY out. What if we wired this inline to ONLY the TCU speed sensor #2 input into a US TCU. Everything else being as it was in the car but adding this and adjusting pulse signal down to normal readings for a US VSS#2. He would need a Select monitor to monitor the TCU's reading to adjust it properly but it should work and allow him to use the US TCU and will fix the issue.

The biggest problem is he would need to find someone capable of doing it

Tom
But damn it, both you and Harvey have instructed Alex in no uncertain manner, that he should change the existing N/C solenoid for a VTD N/O. This instruction MUST be withdrawn and cancelled.
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  #18  
Old 08-09-2009, 08:12 PM
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Re: US over to europan.

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Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
But damn it, both you and Harvey have instructed Alex in no uncertain manner, that he should change the existing N/C solenoid for a VTD N/O. This instruction MUST be withdrawn and cancelled.
Would you stfu for two seconds. I didn't say the solenoid would be flawless, I said it would keep it from binding.

This still doesn't help the fact that he needs to find someone capable in doing this.

Tom
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  #19  
Old 08-09-2009, 09:00 PM
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Re: US over to europan.

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Originally Posted by TomsSVX View Post
Would you stfu for two seconds. I didn't say the solenoid would be flawless, I said it would keep it from binding.

This still doesn't help the fact that he needs to find someone capable in doing this.

Tom

I will not shut the fock up. Agitation is apparent, because your errors have been exposed.

What you said is of no consequence. The incorrect solenoid will completely reverse the operation of the transmission, relative to the signal received. It will NOT keep it from binding. It will be useless, NBG and a stupid alteration. It would NOT be "OK but not flawless." If will be 100% wrong.

You continue to uphold your incorrect statements, for no other reason than the maintenance of pride.

P.S. What you have to do, is counter the exact information I have set down, with what you consider correct, portrayed in similar exact text. Otherwise you have no fooking argument.
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Last edited by Trevor; 08-10-2009 at 12:17 AM. Reason: P.S.
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  #20  
Old 08-10-2009, 02:37 AM
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Re: US over to europan.

Alex,

I suggest you stop posting here and privately ask phil for assistance to get you out of your bind (since he is european)(including ignoring the pms you are sure to be getting from both sides of the flame war). I aggree with what he has said and I believe it is very fair to say that he and I are the two most knowledgeable people on the subject.
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  #21  
Old 08-10-2009, 04:23 AM
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Re: US over to europan.

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Alex,

I suggest you stop posting here and privately ask phil for assistance to get you out of your bind (since he is european)(including ignoring the pms you are sure to be getting from both sides of the flame war). I aggree with what he has said and I believe it is very fair to say that he and I are the two most knowledgeable people on the subject.
As far as I am concerned there is no flame war. If the place is on fire, it is because two members will not admit to an error and will not refrain from posting bad advice. I have advised Alex not to change the N/C solenoid and also have passed on Phil's advice. Phil has also been directly involved within the loop, both e-mail and PM.

Alex is not in a bind. He he has been completely confused as a result of wrong instructions, which have been continually posted within this thread. I have simply continued to correct what is in error, in order to do the right thing by Alex.

I am absolutely sure that Phil is the most knowledgeable here in regard to the software involved, this being the very reason that I have consulted with him.
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  #22  
Old 08-10-2009, 06:20 AM
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Re: US over to europan.

Hear Ye.

I have received two more e-mails from Alex. He is now has a clear understanding regarding retaining the existing N/C “C” solenoid, and changing to a US TCU.

He now wishes to purchase a US TCU in order to make this modification.

Also required is information regarding wiring, or sensor changes. This should be spelt out clearly using simple wording. As I understand it, there are members who are aware that he has done some work in this direction, and so will be in the best position to help him further.

Alex clearly understands that he is involved in a compromise set up, but he is stuck with it due to a lack of funds. This is a very sad situation, resulting from people well known to us, who have taken him for a ride.
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  #23  
Old 08-10-2009, 02:00 PM
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Re: US over to europan.

Sorry to eject a little humor here to try to lighten things up a bit, if anyone is offended by it. If you are, please do not read this reply... Oops, think that recommendation might be too late coming... but this has to be my favorite SVX WORLD NETWORK war!

Like Switzerland, I remain neutral...

Keith
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  #24  
Old 08-10-2009, 03:35 PM
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Re: US over to europan.

Thanks for the erection of a little humour, Keith.



Harvey & Tom are both convinced the use of the reverse flow solenoid will make the gearbox work. Just in the interest of checking out the theory I would like to see the solenoid valve changed, just to see if it stopped the binding and made the car at least driveable.

In all honesty though I do believe that even if that worked it would not work too well, I feel the programming is too disparate and incorrect for the US type box. Michael is saying this too, so is Phil and so is Trevor. As I see it the shift maps for the US type are programmed to control 90% front drive to 50/50, while the VTD box computer is designed to handle 64% rear drive to 50/50. I can't see the logic circuits handling that difference, the TCU may lose all intelligence and default to limp home mode.

Even though the change of solenoid may release the binding, in my view the correct path of action at this juncture is to fit and wire the USA type TCU. Alex will have the benefit of superior acceleration with the 4.444 ratio, and no matter that all are agreed the VTD is best, the ACT4 will work like a good thing in the worst of traction conditions in Norway. The man will not be short changed, he will have an excellent car.

And I'm joining Keith in Switzerland now too, that's all I'm going to say about it.

Joe
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  #25  
Old 08-10-2009, 05:03 PM
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Re: US over to europan.

The problem is that no one can confirm the duty cycles of the VTD box. So LAN and Trevor, if you are the most Knowledgable about this box, please tell me the duty rates of a VTD box at idler, 50% throtte, and WOT. The goal of changing just the solenoid is to stop the constant binding at idle and low throttle. I never said it was a miracle cure or a perfect fix, but it will help more than doing nothing. It is also cheaper than replacing the transmission. I am not trying to hide my faults, merely try to make the easiest way out. Your banter is not helping anyone.

There are two ways to make the trans in there work. Both require a USDM TCU.

1. Fit the speed signal adjuster mentioned earlier

2. Run new wiring from the bellhousing sensor to the USDM TCU while allowing the inductive sensor to operate the ECU and the Speedo.

Either of these will require Alex to find someone who is capable of changing the car around for it.

So if you "experts" want to help, draw up a schematic that a Norwegian mechanic will be able to read and understand that will explain the needed changes to the wiring.

Tom
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  #26  
Old 08-10-2009, 05:32 PM
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Re: US over to europan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsSVX View Post
The problem is that no one can confirm the duty cycles of the VTD box. So LAN and Trevor, if you are the most Knowledgable about this box, please tell me the duty rates of a VTD box at idler, 50% throtte, and WOT. The goal of changing just the solenoid is to stop the constant binding at idle and low throttle. I never said it was a miracle cure or a perfect fix, but it will help more than doing nothing. It is also cheaper than replacing the transmission. I am not trying to hide my faults, merely try to make the easiest way out. Your banter is not helping anyone.

There are two ways to make the trans in there work. Both require a USDM TCU.

1. Fit the speed signal adjuster mentioned earlier

2. Run new wiring from the bellhousing sensor to the USDM TCU while allowing the inductive sensor to operate the ECU and the Speedo.

Either of these will require Alex to find someone who is capable of changing the car around for it.

So if you "experts" want to help, draw up a schematic that a Norwegian mechanic will be able to read and understand that will explain the needed changes to the wiring.

Tom
Tom,

The trouble is that you and another, are unable to understand the several very explicate explanations I have posted, proving that the C solenoid now fitted is correct. Your continuing argument in this regard is the very reason for several frustrating threads, very much to the disadvantage of Alex. You continue to procrastinate, for no other reason, than to prevent having to admit to a mistake.

By changing the C solenoid, as you keep suggesting, the duty cycle signal will be reversed when applied to the transmission. An off period will register as an on period and an on period as an off period. It will NOT help and will stuff things up entirely, making any resolution of Alex' problem impossible. If you wish to help, please take your own advice and stfu.

If you or your mate are experts, why do you not submit a wiring diagram? A schematic would not help.
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Last edited by Trevor; 08-10-2009 at 05:37 PM. Reason: Addition.
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  #27  
Old 08-10-2009, 05:39 PM
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Re: US over to europan.

That is wrong. If a US type solenoid is binding, the VTD type will alleviate the binding due to an inappropriate signal. So unless you are telling me what the duty rates are at the described points, I don't want to hear another word, this is unless you are writing that schematic to HELP someone rather than stir a pot.

tom
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  #28  
Old 08-10-2009, 06:30 PM
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Re: US over to europan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svxistentialist View Post
Thanks for the erection of a little humour, Keith.



Harvey & Tom are both convinced the use of the reverse flow solenoid will make the gearbox work. Just in the interest of checking out the theory I would like to see the solenoid valve changed, just to see if it stopped the binding and made the car at least driveable.

In all honesty though I do believe that even if that worked it would not work too well, I feel the programming is too disparate and incorrect for the US type box. Michael is saying this too, so is Phil and so is Trevor. As I see it the shift maps for the US type are programmed to control 90% front drive to 50/50, while the VTD box computer is designed to handle 64% rear drive to 50/50. I can't see the logic circuits handling that difference, the TCU may lose all intelligence and default to limp home mode.


And I'm joining Keith in Switzerland now too, that's all I'm going to say about it.

Joe
I think there is too much importance placed on the intelligence of the TCU, in controlling the two different AWDs. They both have the same two, basic jobs to perform.
1. Is to recognize a difference in wheel speed, above a fixed %, and to apply pressure to the clutch to stop it.
2. Is to apply a preemptive pressure to the clutch, to prevent the wheels from spinning. This is done according to the, throttle setting and the road speed maps, for all gears.

The type of AWD has little effect on the way the TCU does its job. The preemptive maps for both types, will vary, but I don't think it will be by much. We will have to wait till we can see a comparison of them to tell.

The TCU has no direct knowledge of the what the Torque split is, that is the result of the preemptive maps. Both types will apply a high pressure to the clutch when doing a full throttle start, to prevent wheel spin. The VTD will spin the back wheels just as easily as the Transfer will spin the front, if the clutch is not working. ( you only have to see the videos of the 'Boys from Brazil' smoking the rears, to see, what the VTD is like without the clutch working).
When the car is in top gear and driving, the TCU can only work with the two inputs of throttle and speed, it does not know that the conditions that the driver sees would demand a different torque split, to handle them better. This is why there is a driver control on the 6 speed with the DCCD. so that the driver can input the other conditions that he sees.

So the question will be seen in a better light, when we can see the preemptive maps for both types and compare them.

Harvey.
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  #29  
Old 08-10-2009, 06:33 PM
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Re: US over to europan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsSVX View Post
That is wrong. If a US type solenoid is binding, the VTD type will alleviate the binding due to an inappropriate signal. So unless you are telling me what the duty rates are at the described points, I don't want to hear another word, this is unless you are writing that schematic to HELP someone rather than stir a pot.

tom
tom,

I have explained in great detail why you are WRONG. You are unable to provide any information regarding your claims. The duty rates have nothing to do with the argument. The overall duty rates and duty signal would be reversed if the C solenoid is changed, thus completely upsetting the proper operation of the clutch.

My explanations are water tight and bullet proof.
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Last edited by Trevor; 08-10-2009 at 06:45 PM. Reason: Typo - tense
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  #30  
Old 08-10-2009, 06:54 PM
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Re: US over to europan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oab_au View Post
I think there is too much importance placed on the intelligence of the TCU, in controlling the two different AWDs. They both have the same two, basic jobs to perform.
1. Is to recognize a difference in wheel speed, above a fixed %, and to apply pressure to the clutch to stop it.
2. Is to apply a preemptive pressure to the clutch, to prevent the wheels from spinning. This is done according to the, throttle setting and the road speed maps, for all gears.

The type of AWD has little effect on the way the TCU does its job. The preemptive maps for both types, will vary, but I don't think it will be by much. We will have to wait till we can see a comparison of them to tell.

The TCU has no direct knowledge of the what the Torque split is, that is the result of the preemptive maps. Both types will apply a high pressure to the clutch when doing a full throttle start, to prevent wheel spin. The VTD will spin the back wheels just as easily as the Transfer will spin the front, if the clutch is not working. ( you only have to see the videos of the 'Boys from Brazil' smoking the rears, to see, what the VTD is like without the clutch working).
When the car is in top gear and driving, the TCU can only work with the two inputs of throttle and speed, it does not know that the conditions that the driver sees would demand a different torque split, to handle them better. This is why there is a driver control on the 6 speed with the DCCD. so that the driver can input the other conditions that he sees.

So the question will be seen in a better light, when we can see the preemptive maps for both types and compare them.

Harvey.
Harvey,

N.B. This thread was started by Alex as a direct plea for assistance.

Once more we have the direct insertion of a side issue, in an effort to side step an absolute mistake. Your extensive alleged illustration of knowledge has nothing to do with the matter in hand. You are WRONG in your statement that a solenoid should be changed.

Rather than exploit the thread to your own ends, why do you not illustrate your perceived knowledge and provide the information now outstanding.
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Last edited by Trevor; 08-10-2009 at 07:10 PM. Reason: addition
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