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#1
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Cam Lobes
Now that a few have installed intake cams with good success, it seems appropriate to find and compare hard data on these lobes, as well as other lobes that could be used. Driving impressions of different cammed engines should also be included in the thread.
The problem in comparing svx-stock lobes with other lobes is that no standard was used to compare. I asked Delta Cams to find the lift that the svx 236* intake duration and 244* exhaust duration spec was based on. This was measured to be .006" lift. The lift that 'advertised' duration is measured varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Advertised duration is generally referred to as 'seat to seat' duration. Once this spec was determined, I asked for the duration on the Nissan lobe, measured the same way. Now, we are much closer to apples for apples comparison. The Nissan lobe is Delta tool #F327. This is the lobe profile installed by TomsSVX and Chiketkd. Measured cam specs: SVX intake lift: .280" Duration: 236*@ .006" lift/ 184*@ .050" SVX exhaust: .311" Duration: 244*@ .006" lift/ 194*@ .050" Nissan lobe: .314" Duration: 256*@ .006" lift/ 194*@ .050"
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#2
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more lobes
We have comparative measurements on two more Nissan KA24 dohc cams. The Cam Doctor would not provide a consistant measurement at .006".
So, let's compare the duration at .010" lift. Measured cam specs: SVX intake lift: .280" Duration: 219*@ .010" lift/ 184*@ .050" SVX exh. lift: . 311" Duration: 226*@ .010" lift/ 194*@ .050" Nissan lift: .342"/.350" Duration: 282*@ .010" lift/ 206*@ .050" There are other lobes that look promising.
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Special Thanks to Our Friends and Sponsors: * http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm http://www.PhenixWheels.com http://www.dba.com.au/ http://www.ClassicSoftTrim.com http://ToyoTires.com/tire/pattern/versado-lx Gillman Subaru of Houston "QuickChange" http://www.TransGo.com/ http://www.PlanetSVX.com Bontrager Works, '92 Subaru SVX LS-L Claret ORIGINAL OWNER '92 LS-L Pearl~ '92 LS Pearl~ '92 LS-L Teal~ '92 LS-L Silver~ '95 LSi Polo~ '92 JDM Alcyone SVX Version-L 4WS Pearl~ http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54143 '92 JDM Alcyone SVX Version-L 4WS Ebony~ http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54117 Last edited by NeedForSpeed; 01-25-2006 at 04:15 PM. |
#3
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Quote:
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Danny 1994 Silver SVX in hybernation, awaiting for the monsterous awakening (Lebanon) 1967 Mercedes-Benz 250SL Euro Specs, Hard/Softtop, White/Red. Under Complete Restoration 2013 Mercedes-Benz SL350 Euro Specs, White/Red. Mint... Another step into SL Collection. |
#4
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Quote:
Looking at the figures, the cam we have been using is a slow opening cam. You can see that it takes an extra 10* to get the valve open. This type of cam is not the best for creating a strong sonic wave. The SVX exhaust profile would work better. Same lift faster opening. Harvey.
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One Arm Bloke. Tell it like it is! 95 Lsi. Bordeaux Pearl, Aust. RHD.149,000Kls Subaru BBS wheels. 97 Liberty GX Auto sedan. 320,000Kls. 04 Liberty 30R Auto Premium. 92.000kls. |
#5
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Hi Ron,
I just got off the phone with Scott @ Delta Cam, and the second set of KA24DE cams that I sent to him have very promising profiles for the SVX intake (and exhaust). Here are the stats: S14 KA24DE motor (late model 240SX) intake profile: 0.350" lift, 206 deg @ 0.050" (a bit too much duration) exhaust profile: 0.350" lift, 200 deg @ 0.050" (almost too much duration, but probably ok). He says that he's going to do some search for other profiles that may work, but I'm leaning towards using that S14 exhaust profile. In comparison to Chike's and Tom's intake cam profile, this profile will have 4 deg more duration, and another 0.040" (1 mm) of lift.
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Mychailo :: 2006 Silver Mitsubishi Evolution 9, E85, 34 psi peak, 425wtq/505whp DJ :: 1995 Laguna Blue SVX L AWD 5MT (sold) Visit my locker SVX Mods: ND iridium spark plugs, Impreza RS fpr, afr tuned to 13.2:1 using a custom MAF bypass, custom exhaust, WRX 5MT w/ STi RA 1st-4th gear & stock WRX 5th gear, Exedy 13 lb flywheel & Sport Clutch, STi Group N tranny & engine mounts, urethane spacers in rear subframe, rear diff mounts, and pitch stopper, SVX Sport Strut Springs (185f/150r), custom 19 mm rear swaybar, urethane swaybar mounts, Rota Torque 17x8", 225/45-17 Proxes 4 tires, Axxis Deluxe Plus organic brake pads. |
#6
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are you suggesting using 9mm of lift I think we will go coilbound with that. Unless you are just suggesting 1mm over stock. Either way, let me know because come this weekend my set of cams will be shipped out. Whether I use a new profile or stick to the old one is still up in the air but I need to replace my front seals badly and have been waiting for this to do them. So if there is any good info by friday please post what u know
Tom |
#7
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Bill (SVXRide) has a few items to check with his bench cylinder head:
1) Amount of valve lift required to cause valve collision during overlap. 2) Clearance between intake cam lobe and rim of the lifter bore 3) Amount of intake valve lift before going coil bound.
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Mychailo :: 2006 Silver Mitsubishi Evolution 9, E85, 34 psi peak, 425wtq/505whp DJ :: 1995 Laguna Blue SVX L AWD 5MT (sold) Visit my locker SVX Mods: ND iridium spark plugs, Impreza RS fpr, afr tuned to 13.2:1 using a custom MAF bypass, custom exhaust, WRX 5MT w/ STi RA 1st-4th gear & stock WRX 5th gear, Exedy 13 lb flywheel & Sport Clutch, STi Group N tranny & engine mounts, urethane spacers in rear subframe, rear diff mounts, and pitch stopper, SVX Sport Strut Springs (185f/150r), custom 19 mm rear swaybar, urethane swaybar mounts, Rota Torque 17x8", 225/45-17 Proxes 4 tires, Axxis Deluxe Plus organic brake pads. |
#8
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I have been in touch with Bill on this, and I will also confirm these numbers.
As for valve collision during overlap, cams with .480" lift and 266* at .050" have been used. That's huge lift and the valves are open a long time. We shouldn't have any problem in this area. Quote:
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Special Thanks to Our Friends and Sponsors: * http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm http://www.PhenixWheels.com http://www.dba.com.au/ http://www.ClassicSoftTrim.com http://ToyoTires.com/tire/pattern/versado-lx Gillman Subaru of Houston "QuickChange" http://www.TransGo.com/ http://www.PlanetSVX.com Bontrager Works, '92 Subaru SVX LS-L Claret ORIGINAL OWNER '92 LS-L Pearl~ '92 LS Pearl~ '92 LS-L Teal~ '92 LS-L Silver~ '95 LSi Polo~ '92 JDM Alcyone SVX Version-L 4WS Pearl~ http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54143 '92 JDM Alcyone SVX Version-L 4WS Ebony~ http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54117 |
#9
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Nice. Sounds like 9 mm of lift should be no prob. I'd still like to get some confirmation from Bill just to get a 2nd confirmation. :-)
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Mychailo :: 2006 Silver Mitsubishi Evolution 9, E85, 34 psi peak, 425wtq/505whp DJ :: 1995 Laguna Blue SVX L AWD 5MT (sold) Visit my locker SVX Mods: ND iridium spark plugs, Impreza RS fpr, afr tuned to 13.2:1 using a custom MAF bypass, custom exhaust, WRX 5MT w/ STi RA 1st-4th gear & stock WRX 5th gear, Exedy 13 lb flywheel & Sport Clutch, STi Group N tranny & engine mounts, urethane spacers in rear subframe, rear diff mounts, and pitch stopper, SVX Sport Strut Springs (185f/150r), custom 19 mm rear swaybar, urethane swaybar mounts, Rota Torque 17x8", 225/45-17 Proxes 4 tires, Axxis Deluxe Plus organic brake pads. |
#10
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Quote:
-Chike
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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato 2013 Cosmic Blue 5spd Evo X GSR 2006 Galaxy Gray 6MT RX-8 (sold) 2006 Steel Gray WRX TR (sold) 1996 Brilliant Red SVX L (sold) |
#11
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Yes, I posted rough specs on those new Nissan lobes above. It seems that many cam profiles were used on KA24s.
You are comparing duration of the two Nissan lobes at .050" and making a decision only on that. As Harvey pointed out, once more data was available, lobes can have virtually the same total lift and the same duration at .050", but have very different opening rates, which on non-boosted eg33s can make a big difference in our sonic wave. The Nissan lobes have very lazy opening rates, perhaps to prevent the 31mm top shim for kicking off the follower. The Nissan doesn't have our intake system, so the lazy opening is not critical to the Nissan engine. Perhaps the Nissan lobes are a better profile for our supercharged engines and very acceptable for our higher rpm 6mt cars. What Scott didn't tell you is equally important in our cam choices. He only provided the duration @ .050" which looks to be 6* more on the .350" lift cam than on the .314" [Tom/Chike] cam. This is not enough information to make a comparison. With only this information, it looks like a good choice, but remember, we know now that Nissan lobes are slow opening. More lift further multiplies the lazy opening. Look at my posts again, and compare these two sets of Nissan lobes. Nissan [Chike/Tom] Lift: .314 Duration 256*@.006/ 194*@.050 Nissan [2nd set] Lift: .350 Duration 282*@.010/ 206*@.050 The second lobe is not the 200* lobe you mentioned, I don't have specs on it. But I have specs on four different KA lobes with lifts of .342"/.350"/.367". Nissan lobe durations at .050" lift: 204*/206*/208*/216* Nissan lobe durations at .010" lift: 272*/276*/282*/284*/292* For comparison, the SVX intake duration @.010 is 219*/ exhaust 226* Extrapolating, a Nissan lobe with 200*@.050 could be 262* at .010". Nissan lobes of .350" lift are not as close to the .314" lobes as you would expect with only 4-6* difference at .050". Quote:
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Special Thanks to Our Friends and Sponsors: * http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm http://www.PhenixWheels.com http://www.dba.com.au/ http://www.ClassicSoftTrim.com http://ToyoTires.com/tire/pattern/versado-lx Gillman Subaru of Houston "QuickChange" http://www.TransGo.com/ http://www.PlanetSVX.com Bontrager Works, '92 Subaru SVX LS-L Claret ORIGINAL OWNER '92 LS-L Pearl~ '92 LS Pearl~ '92 LS-L Teal~ '92 LS-L Silver~ '95 LSi Polo~ '92 JDM Alcyone SVX Version-L 4WS Pearl~ http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54143 '92 JDM Alcyone SVX Version-L 4WS Ebony~ http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54117 Last edited by NeedForSpeed; 01-07-2007 at 04:56 PM. |
#12
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The Nissan lobes are slow to open because those lobes are designed for solid buckets, to take up the lash.
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Special Thanks to Our Friends and Sponsors: * http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm http://www.PhenixWheels.com http://www.dba.com.au/ http://www.ClassicSoftTrim.com http://ToyoTires.com/tire/pattern/versado-lx Gillman Subaru of Houston "QuickChange" http://www.TransGo.com/ http://www.PlanetSVX.com Bontrager Works, '92 Subaru SVX LS-L Claret ORIGINAL OWNER '92 LS-L Pearl~ '92 LS Pearl~ '92 LS-L Teal~ '92 LS-L Silver~ '95 LSi Polo~ '92 JDM Alcyone SVX Version-L 4WS Pearl~ http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54143 '92 JDM Alcyone SVX Version-L 4WS Ebony~ http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54117 Last edited by NeedForSpeed; 08-23-2006 at 06:28 PM. |
#13
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I did a little more searching for possible cam profiles. The Nissan VG30DE motor ('90-'95 300ZX) may have a worthwhile profile. Its a DOHC engine with direct acting cams and hydraulic lifters. Factory spec on the cams are 0.335" lift and 248 deg total duration for both the intake and exhaust. Scott @ Delta Cam says that he has a few pairs in his storage room, and he's going to get them out tonight and measure the cam profiles.
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Mychailo :: 2006 Silver Mitsubishi Evolution 9, E85, 34 psi peak, 425wtq/505whp DJ :: 1995 Laguna Blue SVX L AWD 5MT (sold) Visit my locker SVX Mods: ND iridium spark plugs, Impreza RS fpr, afr tuned to 13.2:1 using a custom MAF bypass, custom exhaust, WRX 5MT w/ STi RA 1st-4th gear & stock WRX 5th gear, Exedy 13 lb flywheel & Sport Clutch, STi Group N tranny & engine mounts, urethane spacers in rear subframe, rear diff mounts, and pitch stopper, SVX Sport Strut Springs (185f/150r), custom 19 mm rear swaybar, urethane swaybar mounts, Rota Torque 17x8", 225/45-17 Proxes 4 tires, Axxis Deluxe Plus organic brake pads. |
#14
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Great,
Get duration at .006"/.010/.020/.050/.100/.200/.250/.300 What is the lifter diameter of the ZX? Quote:
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Special Thanks to Our Friends and Sponsors: * http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm http://www.PhenixWheels.com http://www.dba.com.au/ http://www.ClassicSoftTrim.com http://ToyoTires.com/tire/pattern/versado-lx Gillman Subaru of Houston "QuickChange" http://www.TransGo.com/ http://www.PlanetSVX.com Bontrager Works, '92 Subaru SVX LS-L Claret ORIGINAL OWNER '92 LS-L Pearl~ '92 LS Pearl~ '92 LS-L Teal~ '92 LS-L Silver~ '95 LSi Polo~ '92 JDM Alcyone SVX Version-L 4WS Pearl~ http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54143 '92 JDM Alcyone SVX Version-L 4WS Ebony~ http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54117 |
#15
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Scott says his profiling machine still isn't functioning properly at low lift. He's going to try to fix it before taking measurements.
The lifter diameter is 31 mm.
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Mychailo :: 2006 Silver Mitsubishi Evolution 9, E85, 34 psi peak, 425wtq/505whp DJ :: 1995 Laguna Blue SVX L AWD 5MT (sold) Visit my locker SVX Mods: ND iridium spark plugs, Impreza RS fpr, afr tuned to 13.2:1 using a custom MAF bypass, custom exhaust, WRX 5MT w/ STi RA 1st-4th gear & stock WRX 5th gear, Exedy 13 lb flywheel & Sport Clutch, STi Group N tranny & engine mounts, urethane spacers in rear subframe, rear diff mounts, and pitch stopper, SVX Sport Strut Springs (185f/150r), custom 19 mm rear swaybar, urethane swaybar mounts, Rota Torque 17x8", 225/45-17 Proxes 4 tires, Axxis Deluxe Plus organic brake pads. |
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