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  #16  
Old 11-21-2005, 08:24 PM
dieingSVX dieingSVX is offline
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meth injection is great, air to air is better in my opinion. if you want your car to have more hp then tune it to race gas with an intercooler that's always there. a few of my friends have owned gn's and syclones if you guys are familiar with them. if not a gn is a buick 3.8 turbo in the 80's. the syclone is an awd truck that's turboed with a 4.3 v6. well my buddy with the gn dumped his meth, ran 110, got it tuned to that, and went from 11.9 to an 11.3 with no other mods. the meth/water injection does cool the flame, and i think someone above even said that it slows the flame. they are right, it does slow it down! but if you are really wanting to make hp then you don't want to slow the flame down, you want to go as fast as it can for your setup. when you slow it you lose hp. if that makes any sense. good luck.....
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92 LS-L been sitting for 6 years.
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  #17  
Old 11-21-2005, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieingSVX
meth injection is great, air to air is better in my opinion. if you want your car to have more hp then tune it to race gas with an intercooler that's always there. a few of my friends have owned gn's and syclones if you guys are familiar with them. if not a gn is a buick 3.8 turbo in the 80's. the syclone is an awd truck that's turboed with a 4.3 v6. well my buddy with the gn dumped his meth, ran 110, got it tuned to that, and went from 11.9 to an 11.3 with no other mods. the meth/water injection does cool the flame, and i think someone above even said that it slows the flame. they are right, it does slow it down! but if you are really wanting to make hp then you don't want to slow the flame down, you want to go as fast as it can for your setup. when you slow it you lose hp. if that makes any sense. good luck.....
You don't lose horsepower by slowing down the flame. You do gain horsepower by tuning for race gas, because you can run more boost and timing with a set amount of fuel.

Using Meth injection, It actually acts as a fuel as well as a "intake air cooling agent" With straight water, you cool better, however you typically won't make as much horsepower as you can with meth, because it combusts. Using meth/water injection on top of any other intercooling system is a good way to do it.
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  #18  
Old 11-22-2005, 03:37 PM
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heh, well isn't nos a better intercooler then meth?
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92 LS-L been sitting for 6 years.
86 fiero gt, t-tops, 3800sc, headers, intercooler, p&p blower and lower intake, 3.0 pulley, 1.6RR's, double roller timing chain, xp cam, 130lb valve springs and hooisers :P
87 starion- currently rides on jackstands.
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  #19  
Old 11-22-2005, 03:54 PM
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Kind of, however in a different way. A better question is how many people want to be constantly running nitrous through their motor?

Nitrous turns gaseous and is extremely cold, hence the "Ntercooler" things that spray nitrous on your front mount.

If you were to run a small stream of nitrous into your intake tract, You would in effect be adding O2, which means you have to add fuel. If you didn't, you would run lean, and the combustion is hotter.

Because Methanol is actually a fuel, it richens the A/F ratio slightly, and combusts at a lower temp. It also cools of the intake air charge as well by using the energy in the air (heat) to cause a phase change (liquid to gas).

Nitrous cools purely on a temperature basis. (high pressure to lower pressure area) So overall the actual INTAKE temp is dropped more using nitrous, however the combustion temp would be significantly higher (given no other changes)

My point is that there is absolutely no reason NOT to run a correctly setup meth/water (50/50 or 20/80) setup on a turbocharged car unless you're too lazy to fill it up, or already have some sort of decently effecitve intercooler, and don't have the money to add it.
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  #20  
Old 11-22-2005, 04:01 PM
dieingSVX dieingSVX is offline
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in my first post i said a good a/a intercooler is the way to go in my opinion.

you said

My point is that there is absolutely no reason NOT to run a correctly setup meth/water (50/50 or 20/80) setup on a turbocharged car unless you're too lazy to fill it up, or already have some sort of decently effecitve intercooler, and don't have the money to add it.


i never said meth was a bad way to go, i just said it's not always the best. do you agree with what i'm saying?
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92 LS-L been sitting for 6 years.
86 fiero gt, t-tops, 3800sc, headers, intercooler, p&p blower and lower intake, 3.0 pulley, 1.6RR's, double roller timing chain, xp cam, 130lb valve springs and hooisers :P
87 starion- currently rides on jackstands.
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  #21  
Old 11-22-2005, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieingSVX
in my first post i said a good a/a intercooler is the way to go in my opinion.

you said

My point is that there is absolutely no reason NOT to run a correctly setup meth/water (50/50 or 20/80) setup on a turbocharged car unless you're too lazy to fill it up, or already have some sort of decently effecitve intercooler, and don't have the money to add it.


i never said meth was a bad way to go, i just said it's not always the best. do you agree with what i'm saying?
My suggestion is to use both. Because that is the best

the quote you state, while slightly mis-stated on my side, means that if you have an air to air intercooler, and you don't have the extra 250$ to add a properly setup meth/water injection. Not if you have an intercooler you don't need W/I
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  #22  
Old 11-22-2005, 04:10 PM
dieingSVX dieingSVX is offline
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well i'm using an a/a with a set of 6 secondary injectors spraying 110 out of 42lb injectors. in combination with 6 primary 50lb injectors 93, not sure if it's going to be a nightmare to tune yet.
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92 LS-L been sitting for 6 years.
86 fiero gt, t-tops, 3800sc, headers, intercooler, p&p blower and lower intake, 3.0 pulley, 1.6RR's, double roller timing chain, xp cam, 130lb valve springs and hooisers :P
87 starion- currently rides on jackstands.
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  #23  
Old 11-22-2005, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieingSVX
well i'm using an a/a with a set of 6 secondary injectors spraying 110 out of 42lb injectors. in combination with 6 primary 50lb injectors 93, not sure if it's going to be a nightmare to tune yet.

wow... again I say good luck cause that is NOT going to be fun. what management are you using... (have you made your own thread yet, cause that would be a good idea)
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  #24  
Old 11-22-2005, 04:20 PM
dieingSVX dieingSVX is offline
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no, i dont' want to make my own thread, i have my own ideas about things and i talked once with a few of the people on this board and i just get flamed. same thing happened with my mustang on corral.net. ends up i'm running a navi motor in it now on the stock computer that they said wouldnt work. either way, i like trail and error. as far as management i've talked to the people at 034 and they seem like they have their **** together. they make some serious hp out of audi's and vw's 4 bangers. very nice people to. also there products are made to interface. so the stand alone will control the injector controller, if that makes sense.
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92 LS-L been sitting for 6 years.
86 fiero gt, t-tops, 3800sc, headers, intercooler, p&p blower and lower intake, 3.0 pulley, 1.6RR's, double roller timing chain, xp cam, 130lb valve springs and hooisers :P
87 starion- currently rides on jackstands.
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  #25  
Old 12-09-2005, 11:47 AM
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Currently im playing with the idea of running a twin turbo setup. but instead of mounting them in the upper part of the bay, Im thinking of mounting them below, making it a shorter trip for the exhaust side. The setup im thinking of starting out with is a pair of GT3s. they are cheap and they put out low pressure. As for the MAF, using ECUtune's stage 2 setup. larger MAF, larger Injectors. that sovles 2 problems right there. And with undermounting the turbos, it will be eaiser to do swaps later down the line.
An idea that my dad had, for monitering knock, was to find the frequency that the stock sensors are built to, and finding another sensor that will stand alone, but it will be going off before the stock knocks pick anything up, preventing a retard.
We have also been talking about doing water/alchol injection to controll the engine better. never thought of using washer fluid though.
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  #26  
Old 12-09-2005, 04:57 PM
dieingSVX dieingSVX is offline
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well the knock sensors in the car now are hard to beat. they since pretty much everything. as far as ecu st2 with the upgraded maf and all that, save up some more money and get stand alone, dump the maf and convert to a map sensor. underneath the car may work, i really haven't looked at it that well yet, but it also makes it harder to run intercooler piping. but good luck, it's always cool to have some one else starting a project like this
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92 LS-L been sitting for 6 years.
86 fiero gt, t-tops, 3800sc, headers, intercooler, p&p blower and lower intake, 3.0 pulley, 1.6RR's, double roller timing chain, xp cam, 130lb valve springs and hooisers :P
87 starion- currently rides on jackstands.
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  #27  
Old 12-10-2005, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieingSVX
well the knock sensors in the car now are hard to beat. they since pretty much everything. as far as ecu st2 with the upgraded maf and all that, save up some more money and get stand alone, dump the maf and convert to a map sensor. underneath the car may work, i really haven't looked at it that well yet, but it also makes it harder to run intercooler piping. but good luck, it's always cool to have some one else starting a project like this

From what i've seen, converting to a map/speed density looks better on paper than in real life.
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  #28  
Old 12-10-2005, 09:45 AM
dieingSVX dieingSVX is offline
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yet so many people do it, i wonder why?
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92 LS-L been sitting for 6 years.
86 fiero gt, t-tops, 3800sc, headers, intercooler, p&p blower and lower intake, 3.0 pulley, 1.6RR's, double roller timing chain, xp cam, 130lb valve springs and hooisers :P
87 starion- currently rides on jackstands.
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  #29  
Old 12-10-2005, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieingSVX
yet so many people do it, i wonder why?
The theory behind it leads to "non intake restrictions" however in real life, a MAF sensor like the GM 3/3.5 inch restricts very little.

There are some advantages of running speed density, however I wouldn't pay 1600 for a standalone just to run it. I think if the z32 MAF can support the power, use it, cause the ECUtune software is a hell of a lot cheaper and easier than a standalone.
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  #30  
Old 12-14-2005, 02:42 AM
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Well, i was considering running the just about everything from underneath, possibably mounting two small IC in each of the fender wells, and removing the plastic cover. but that would be quite a bit of piping if im going true TT. So that part will have to come as the project is being built. To make room for everything, I would have to mount the battery, and fluid tanks in the trunk, doing that would free up a bit of room in the bay. One thing i am curious about, If the manifold's butterfly valve could be modified to alter the intakes state bassed on pressure rather than vaccum? and if so, would it even matter?
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