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#1
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Tuning the EG33 without turbo
guys I was thinking about the 96 BMW M3 engine (3.2L) , it is of similar size of the EG33 (approx) but has around 90 more hp. even though this engine runs atmospherically without any turbo... couldn' t the SVX engine be modified to run similar power ? the ECU 1 STAGE chip can help a lot, or the Motec device and I prefer to run on atmospherically tuned engine rather than turbocharged... any comments guys ?? can anyone provide us with the difference between those two engines ?
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Danny 1994 Silver SVX in hybernation, awaiting for the monsterous awakening (Lebanon) 1967 Mercedes-Benz 250SL Euro Specs, Hard/Softtop, White/Red. Under Complete Restoration 2013 Mercedes-Benz SL350 Euro Specs, White/Red. Mint... Another step into SL Collection. |
#2
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I have no clue what bmw does to its engines or how they tune it, but from the figures that have been posted the EG33 is extremely effcient and I doubt there's much you can do with the stock internals to up the power if you don't add forced induction.
What you could do though, is either bore it, or stroke it, or both....and I totally fogot where I was going. |
#3
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Danny 1994 Silver SVX in hybernation, awaiting for the monsterous awakening (Lebanon) 1967 Mercedes-Benz 250SL Euro Specs, Hard/Softtop, White/Red. Under Complete Restoration 2013 Mercedes-Benz SL350 Euro Specs, White/Red. Mint... Another step into SL Collection. |
#4
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All of the high-end BMW engines are variably timed. So, unless you can somehow adapt a VTEC-like setup, those incredible horsepower and torque ratings will never be reached without compromising either of the opposite (i.e. changing the cam grind to raise HP, but most likely lower torque as well).
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#5
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i know that, but I want to know what differenciate the internal parts of the BMW from our engine, it is of smaller size, yet very powerful... getting the Motec or something like it to run the ECU + modifying internals, can give better engine conduct rather than inserting turbo(s)
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Danny 1994 Silver SVX in hybernation, awaiting for the monsterous awakening (Lebanon) 1967 Mercedes-Benz 250SL Euro Specs, Hard/Softtop, White/Red. Under Complete Restoration 2013 Mercedes-Benz SL350 Euro Specs, White/Red. Mint... Another step into SL Collection. |
#6
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might want to consider the weight difference (~200lbs) into the factor of speed.
RWD might make a difference, since we're normally set at 90/10 distribution right? would gearing make a difference too? deruvian appears to be right too...the m3forum lists the specs for each generation and it shows that the torque is lower than the horsepower by ~60hp i think the BMW also makes more power because it revs higher (7900RPM is where it makes its max, torque max is around 4900). Our max hp is at 5400, torque at 4400...so maybe a freer revving engine would help here because we don't have much of a displacement advantage our transmission doesn't seem to be the smartest thing ever either |
#7
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Danny 1994 Silver SVX in hybernation, awaiting for the monsterous awakening (Lebanon) 1967 Mercedes-Benz 250SL Euro Specs, Hard/Softtop, White/Red. Under Complete Restoration 2013 Mercedes-Benz SL350 Euro Specs, White/Red. Mint... Another step into SL Collection. |
#8
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The ECUtune chip helps a little, really, not THAT much... but no kind of computer tuning will get anywhere NEAR an M3's power output. The chip available from ECUtune is basically as good as reworking the software can do... NO more gains without serious mechanical modification. There is also NO reason to step up to a stand-alone system (MoTec) when nothing else fundamentally altered. It really won't do much better than our computer (tuned properly) will. That is for car that are seriously modified (like adding forced induction), or pieced together cars (extreme engine swaps), or vehicles made basically from scratch. I think you could learn a lot from a basic engines course or something. It seems like you have been tending to reguritate things you have heard elsewhere (including from me)... and kind of, miscontruing what happens, or works, or whatever. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be mean. It is great that you're excited about mofiying the SVX (as I am). I just feel like some of the basic concepts, that I and some others have tried to explain, aren't really getting through.
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-Aaron SVX: '92 Dark Teal 101k '97 Legacy GT Wagon: dead '99 Civic Si: daily driver... stolen and stripped with all my tools! '92 Yamaha FZR 600: garage 2011 Jetta: Daily disappointment |
#9
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Danny 1994 Silver SVX in hybernation, awaiting for the monsterous awakening (Lebanon) 1967 Mercedes-Benz 250SL Euro Specs, Hard/Softtop, White/Red. Under Complete Restoration 2013 Mercedes-Benz SL350 Euro Specs, White/Red. Mint... Another step into SL Collection. |
#10
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LOL
I can't understand what the poop you're talking about sometimes, bud. I'm guessing by atmospheric you mean naturally aspirated (as in not forced induction). I guess the EG33 is MORE similar to the Porches H6 engines (be it any variation of displacement). However, still very different where it counts... hence the big performance difference and price difference. Personally, I just want to wait and see if any of the current forced induction projects pans out well.
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-Aaron SVX: '92 Dark Teal 101k '97 Legacy GT Wagon: dead '99 Civic Si: daily driver... stolen and stripped with all my tools! '92 Yamaha FZR 600: garage 2011 Jetta: Daily disappointment |
#11
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Danny 1994 Silver SVX in hybernation, awaiting for the monsterous awakening (Lebanon) 1967 Mercedes-Benz 250SL Euro Specs, Hard/Softtop, White/Red. Under Complete Restoration 2013 Mercedes-Benz SL350 Euro Specs, White/Red. Mint... Another step into SL Collection. |
#12
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hahaha i got drunk one time and asked my friend if he had a normaly asporated beverage. but yeah, all the motors you listed for comparison use veriable valve timing. the m3 even uses seporate throttle bodies and fuel maps for each cylinder. you cant do that with a subaru. subaru will slap a turbo on anything why should the svx be any diferent. personaly i like turbos better but i think that the supercharger would be better suted to our low end needs. slap on a blower and as ronco says set it and forget it. race the rice rockets all night long and show those punks "whos got a pair" (and im not talking about turbos or NO2 tanks).
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#13
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Danny 1994 Silver SVX in hybernation, awaiting for the monsterous awakening (Lebanon) 1967 Mercedes-Benz 250SL Euro Specs, Hard/Softtop, White/Red. Under Complete Restoration 2013 Mercedes-Benz SL350 Euro Specs, White/Red. Mint... Another step into SL Collection. |
#14
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Danny, don't have such little faith in the EG33's abilities to handle boost. The internals on it are no different than any of the other phase I engines, the closed deck blocks are phase I engines. Personally I think it could handle some boost with the correct control. It seems like you're afraid to take apart an engine. Not that it's a bad thing, but if you want to make some power you're going to have to. The one thing you should look for is lower comp pistons. I'm not sure if the angles of the valves are the same between the EG33 and EJ22 but if so (or if they're close enough to still keep in non-interference) you could go with stock EJ22T pistons. I'm fairly sure you could do that anyway but it might not keep the engine non-interference. Course you could always go with custom pistons to get the exact comp ratio you want.
As for fuel consumption, don't stay on boost all the time and you'll be better than before. |
#15
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Gravija hit the nail on the head. The M3 motor is designed to make power to 7900 rpm. It most likely has higher lift, longer duration cams, and the intake and exhaust have been designed for those cams and rpm. You could try something like this on an EG33, but you'd have to totally rework the motor from the ground up. You'd easily spend as much money as you would spend on a turbo and not get as much HP or driveability.
Electronic engine control units are not magical tools for extracting HP from a motor. The advantage of an ECU over a carbureted motor is more precise control over the a/f mixture and timing. This is worth some HP over a carbureted motor. However, there's typically not huge amounts of power to be gained by messing with an already well setup electonically controlled motor. The SVX ECU is a fairly advanced unit, and Subaru has tuned the EG33 pretty well from the factory. This is why LAN's Stage 1 add only about 7 HP. You'll not get more than a few HP beyond that with a Motec (or whatever). Why you would prefer to not use a turbo (or SC)? HP is HP, and it all puts stress on the motor.
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Mychailo :: 2006 Silver Mitsubishi Evolution 9, E85, 34 psi peak, 425wtq/505whp DJ :: 1995 Laguna Blue SVX L AWD 5MT (sold) Visit my locker SVX Mods: ND iridium spark plugs, Impreza RS fpr, afr tuned to 13.2:1 using a custom MAF bypass, custom exhaust, WRX 5MT w/ STi RA 1st-4th gear & stock WRX 5th gear, Exedy 13 lb flywheel & Sport Clutch, STi Group N tranny & engine mounts, urethane spacers in rear subframe, rear diff mounts, and pitch stopper, SVX Sport Strut Springs (185f/150r), custom 19 mm rear swaybar, urethane swaybar mounts, Rota Torque 17x8", 225/45-17 Proxes 4 tires, Axxis Deluxe Plus organic brake pads. |
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