An Open Letter to Cindy Sheehan

[Red SVX 92]

Originally Posted by Bipa

Err... you talking about me?.... or G.W. Bush?!

I'm talking about someone "who's never seen war up close or been in the military". I don't mean that not having a military perspective is a bad thing; it's like expecting a Dutch guy from a small town in the country to know the command structure of the Chinese government, ya dig? BTW, I'm a civvie, if you have any doubts as to the intended tone of that comment.

I'm talking about someone "who's never seen war up close or been in the military".

Well since you think "seen war up close" and being in the military is a prerequisite for having a valid opinion on the military why don't you tell us about your military and combat experience?

Originally Posted By Tigershark
As a student of history in addition to being a veteran, I should get bonus brownie points for knowing that photo was actaully the SECOND flag raising in Iwo. Thanks for being clear and non insulting. I asked a clear question and you answered without sarcasim or nastiness. Thank you. That has grown in short supply recently. As for the rape thing, that was in response to the horrible Bush fishing photo. But that wasn't your post. So I hope you didn't include the two together.
END QUOTE

You're very welcome! I try not to get personal in these sorts of discussions (unless extremely obvious over-the-top joking) since insults don't contribute to anything except bad feelings and short tempers. When you're over 40, you've pretty much read/seen/heard all the obvious and frankly boring personal slander most folks throw at each other. If only people could be a little more creative, then at least I might learn something new

Bonus brownie points duly accredited!

Sorry about going off-topic, but perhaps we've piqued a few folks' interest?

Anyone interested in learning more about the flag raising, here's a great web site for you. It has a pic each of the first and second flag raising, plus an eyewitness account:
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/iwoflag.htm
"Scott Tank sent us this eyewitness account of Cpl. Charles W. Lindberg, a friend and the last surviving member of the team that raised the first flag on the crest of Mt. Suribachi. Scott asked that we share Mr. Lindberg's story with you - we are honored to do so."

There's also a link for an original radio report about the landing of Iwo Jima, broadcast by a radio reporter aboard a destroyer just offshore at the time. You can hear the battle in the background as he speaks. (Real player)
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/voiwo.ram (radio account)
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/voiwo.htm (2nd web site about the landing itself)

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by SVXtra

Some of you here who obviously know little or nothing about the Bush administration intentionally misleading our nation and the rest of the world on Iraqi WMD as a prelude to war really should watch the well researched documentary "Dead Wrong-Inside an Intelligence Meltdown." The program pieced together the events leading up to the dozens of mistaken WMD intelligence short comings and out-right lies of the Bush administration, CIA and State Dept.

And you need to lay off the CNN buddy. Wow...conspiracy theorists of the world unite. Yes, of course, the Bush administration deliberately mislead the country when they knew full well that Saddam was just a harmless punk. They WANTED to go to war. They wanted all the negative publicity, they wanted to be the most hated administration in our time, they wanted the lowest approval rating in decades, and most of all, they wanted to royally screw up the economy.

I'm sorry for doubting you, i've seen the light. To what address should I send my life savings?

Somehow that smiley just doesn't cut it here. Got anything better Alan?

[spinn360]

I cant read all this I dont have the time I am only in three pages and by the time I get to this you guys will probably change the subject but President Bush (the one that was nearly killed by a pretzel) was business partners in an oil company with the Bin Laden family who claim they rejected Osama as a family member, the same crazy people who tell there kids to strap on TNT and we believe that part. On 9/11 there were a no planes aloud to fly but the presidents airforce one removed the entire BIN LADEN family from the United States even before it was announced that there was a connection between the twin towers and Osama. I dont really want to get involved in a fight but I think everyone needs to know more about the man who sent us to war before they can even agree or complain about a war and what they believe the causes are for bieng there.

The bin Laden family had numerous investments and business deals in The Carlyle Group, a wealthy merchant bank that boasts several of Reagan's former high level government figures including George H. W.Bush among its top management. The Carlyle Group held a controlling interest in the defense contractor B.D.M. until 1998 I believe when it sold its stake to TRW. It is indeed a tangled web they weave.The bin Laden family had to be safely removed from the United States because they knew to much about both George H.W. Bush and his son thru there business dealing with them for more than a decade.

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by spinn360

I cant read all this I dont have the time I am only in three pages and by the time I get to this you guys will probably change the subject but President Bush (the one that was nearly killed by a pretzel) was business partners in an oil company with the Bin Laden family who claim they rejected Osama as a family member, the same crazy people who tell there kids to strap on TNT and we believe that part. On 9/11 there were a no planes aloud to fly but the presidents airforce one removed the entire BIN LADEN family from the United States even before it was announced that there was a connection between the twin towers and Osama. I dont really want to get involved in a fight but I think everyone needs to know more about the man who sent us to war before they can even agree or complain about a war and what they believe the causes are for bieng there.

And you need to realize that the American media can not be trusted to present the whole story. So make sure you have solid sources when you make claims.

The capitalist system pretty much dictates the existence of shady dealings, so that's really no surprise. But here we are again hearing "we caused this, it's our fault, so we have to live with it". NO WE DON'T. None of this really has anything to do with the subject at hand.

[RojoRocket]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

So make sure you have solid sources when you make claims......
The capitalist system pretty much dictates the existence of shady dealings, so that's really no surprise.

Still waiting to hear yours.
And so; Capitalist=Shady=OK?? Now I understand.

On a lighter note:

Funnyman Bill Maher to W (who would be funny
if he wasn't President):

Dear George:

This job can't be fun for you anymore. There's
no more money to spend;
you've used up all of that. You can't start
another war, because you've
also used up the Army. And now, darn the luck,
the rest of your term has
become the Bush Family nightmare: helping poor
people. Listen to your
mom. The cupboard's bare, the credit card's
maxed out, and no one's
speaking to you. Mission Accomplished!

Now, it's time to do what you've always done
best: lose interest and
walk away.
Like you did w/ your military service, and the
oil company, and the
baseball team. It's time, time to move on to
try the next fantasy job.
How 'bout cowboy or spaceman?

Now, I know what you're saying. You're say
that there's so many other
things that you, as president, could involve
yourself in. Please don't.
I know, I know, there's a lot left to do.
There's war with Venezuela and
eliminating the sales tax on yachts, turning
the space program over to
the church, and Social Security to Fannie Mae,
giving embryos the vote,
but ... but, sir, none of that is going to
happen. Why?

Because you govern like Billy Joel drives.
You've performed so poorly,
I'm surprised you haven't given yourself a
medal. You're a catastrophe
that walks like a man. Herbert Hoover was a
****ty president but even he
never conceded an entire metropolis to rising
water and snakes.

On your watch, we've lost almost all of our
allies, the surplus, four
airliners, two Trade Centers, a piece of the
Pentagon, and the city of
New Orleans. Maybe you're just not lucky!

I'm not saying you don't love this country;
I'm just wondering how much
worse it could be if you were on the other
side. So, yes, God does speak
to you, and what He's saying is, "Take a
hint"

"Would be funny if he wasn't President."

Too true. Glenn

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by RojoRocket

Still waiting to hear yours.
And so; Capitalist=Shady=OK?? Now I understand.

On a lighter note:

Funnyman Bill Maher to W (who would be funny
if he wasn't President):

Dear George:

This job can't be fun for you anymore. There's
no more money to spend;
you've used up all of that. You can't start
another war, because you've
also used up the Army. And now, darn the luck,
the rest of your term has
become the Bush Family nightmare: helping poor
people. Listen to your
mom. The cupboard's bare, the credit card's
maxed out, and no one's
speaking to you. Mission Accomplished!

Now, it's time to do what you've always done
best: lose interest and
walk away.
Like you did w/ your military service, and the
oil company, and the
baseball team. It's time, time to move on to
try the next fantasy job.
How 'bout cowboy or spaceman?

Now, I know what you're saying. You're say
that there's so many other
things that you, as president, could involve
yourself in. Please don't.
I know, I know, there's a lot left to do.
There's war with Venezuela and
eliminating the sales tax on yachts, turning
the space program over to
the church, and Social Security to Fannie Mae,
giving embryos the vote,
but ... but, sir, none of that is going to
happen. Why?

Because you govern like Billy Joel drives.
You've performed so poorly,
I'm surprised you haven't given yourself a
medal. You're a catastrophe
that walks like a man. Herbert Hoover was a
****ty president but even he
never conceded an entire metropolis to rising
water and snakes.

On your watch, we've lost almost all of our
allies, the surplus, four
airliners, two Trade Centers, a piece of the
Pentagon, and the city of
New Orleans. Maybe you're just not lucky!

I'm not saying you don't love this country;
I'm just wondering how much
worse it could be if you were on the other
side. So, yes, God does speak
to you, and what He's saying is, "Take a
hint"

"Would be funny if he wasn't President."

Too true. Glenn

You forgot some things...he has not stopped the Ozone layer from dissapearing, he has not stopped the world's ocean temps from rising, he has not found the cure for cancer or aids, he has not given food to every single person on this earth who needs it...shall I go on?

I mean, if you're going to blame Bush for everything that's wrong with this world, you'd better be thorough.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by spinn360

On 9/11 there were a no planes aloud to fly but the presidents airforce one removed the entire BIN LADEN family from the United States even before it was announced that there was a connection between the twin towers and Osama. I dont really want to get involved in a fight but I think everyone needs to know more about the man who sent us to war before they can even agree or complain about a war and what they believe the causes are for bieng there.

wow, your facts are just plain wrong.

members of the Bin Laden family were flying around the country in the days after 9/11, *under FBI supervision.* The young members of the bin Laden clan were driven or flown under F.B.I. supervision to a secret assembly point. they were assembled in locations were they could be conveniently flown out of the country once regular airline travel resumed. not on 9/11, and not on Airforce 1.

All of those who took up the Saudi government's offer to fly home were reportedly questioned by the FBI before being allowed to board the flights. A source at Logan said that the FBI was "all over these planes" prior to takeoff. Private planes carrying the kingdom's deputy defense minister and the governor of Mecca, both members of the royal family, were grounded and initially caught up in the F.B.I. dragnet.

The term "bin Laden family member" is rather misleading, as it is often mistakenly assumed to indicate a person with close ties to Osama bin Laden. By most accounts, Osama bin Laden was one of more than fifty children fathered by the same man; the bin Laden family is huge, with hundreds (if not thousands) of members spread all over the globe. Many, many of these family members are only tangentially related to Osama bin Laden and never had much (if any) contact with Osama himself. Moreover, his family disowned him after he fled Saudi Arabia in 1991 and was stripped of his Saudi citizenship in 1994 for smuggling weapons from Yemen.

Why bin Laden family members (and other Saudis) wanted to leave the U.S. in the aftermath of the September 11 terrorist attacks should be obvious: most of the hijackers who perpetrated the attacks were Saudis, as was the mastermind of the plot, Osama bin Laden. Many Saudis temporarily residing in the U.S. (not just bin Laden family members) feared they might become victims of anti-Arab, anti-Saudi, and anti-bin Laden reprisals at the hands of angry Americans. A stabbing incident involving a Saudi student in Boston happened several days after 9/11.

if you'd like to believe that 'ol GW said, "c'mon pardners! we gots to get choo the heck outta Dodge! take my plane!", then please excuse me for chuckling a little bit.

[Phast SVX]

the liberals of this country will always be known for their whining......trust me i live in liberal USA. Its very easy to think you have everything figured out and challenge another persons beliefs......but the day you can challenege your own is the one were you have the right to talk.
It dosnt not matter what we do as a country, we will be in disagreeance with theother half of the country. the democrats need to learn that their smeered theory will not work as long as they aim their campaign at degrading the other half of the country. this proved true in the last election, and will continue untill they get a ****ing clue

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Landshark

wow, your facts are just plain wrong.

members of the Bin Laden family were flying around the country in the days after 9/11, *under FBI supervision.* The young members of the bin Laden clan were driven or flown under F.B.I. supervision to a secret assembly point. they were assembled in locations were they could be conveniently flown out of the country once regular airline travel resumed. not on 9/11, and not on Airforce 1.

All of those who took up the Saudi government's offer to fly home were reportedly questioned by the FBI before being allowed to board the flights. A source at Logan said that the FBI was "all over these planes" prior to takeoff. Private planes carrying the kingdom's deputy defense minister and the governor of Mecca, both members of the royal family, were grounded and initially caught up in the F.B.I. dragnet.

The term "bin Laden family member" is rather misleading, as it is often mistakenly assumed to indicate a person with close ties to Osama bin Laden. By most accounts, Osama bin Laden was one of more than fifty children fathered by the same man; the bin Laden family is huge, with hundreds (if not thousands) of members spread all over the globe. Many, many of these family members are only tangentially related to Osama bin Laden and never had much (if any) contact with Osama himself. Moreover, his family disowned him after he fled Saudi Arabia in 1991 and was stripped of his Saudi citizenship in 1994 for smuggling weapons from Yemen.

Why bin Laden family members (and other Saudis) wanted to leave the U.S. in the aftermath of the September 11 terrorist attacks should be obvious: most of the hijackers who perpetrated the attacks were Saudis, as was the mastermind of the plot, Osama bin Laden. Many Saudis temporarily residing in the U.S. (not just bin Laden family members) feared they might become victims of anti-Arab, anti-Saudi, and anti-bin Laden reprisals at the hands of angry Americans. A stabbing incident involving a Saudi student in Boston happened several days after 9/11.

if you'd like to believe that 'ol GW said, "c'mon pardners! we gots to get choo the heck outta Dodge! take my plane!", then please excuse me for chuckling a little bit.

^^^yes, would you like fries with that or hay?

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Noir

^^^yes, would you like fries with that or hay?

WTF! hay, of course.

[RSVX]

Originally Posted by spinn360

I cant read all this I dont have the time I am only in three pages and by the time I get to this you guys will probably change the subject but President Bush (the one that was nearly killed by a pretzel) was business partners in an oil company with the Bin Laden family who claim they rejected Osama as a family member, the same crazy people who tell there kids to strap on TNT and we believe that part. On 9/11 there were a no planes aloud to fly but the presidents airforce one removed the entire BIN LADEN family from the United States even before it was announced that there was a connection between the twin towers and Osama. I dont really want to get involved in a fight but I think everyone needs to know more about the man who sent us to war before they can even agree or complain about a war and what they believe the causes are for bieng there.

So, do you believe everything that Michael Moore shoves down your throat?

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by RSVX

So, do you believe everything that Michael Moore shoves down your throat?