New proof of Global warming!

[shotgunslade]

I'm sure you read your "scientific literature" as closely as you do this thread. The "global cooling threat of the 1970's" is a good example of the misinformation thrown out by the "global warming skeptics" crowd. It simply didn't happen.

By the way, that rumor that in the 70's scientists were predicting a new ice age is just that, a rumor. A literature search of refereed publications between 1965 and 1979 on the topic of climate temperature trends shows the following results:

* 7 articles predicting cooling
* 44 predicting warming
* 20 that were neutral

"Martian Global Warming" has been touted by certain publications and blogs in an effort to debunk Earth Global Warming. But put on your thinking cap for once. How would anyone know that Mars is warming? The earth has been surrounded by satellites for 30 years. We have ice cores that go back millenia, we have tree ring data for hundreds of years and fossilized tree rings for thousands, even millions of years. We have geologic strata and can measure C12 and C14, and other isotopic differentials related to temperature phenomena, concentrations embedded in these strata. What do we have for Mars? Rovers that have been in a very limited area for 5 years, about 2 Martian years, and telescopic observation that was limited to visible light up until we had satellites. (Earth's atmospheric is too opaque to long wave infra-red to be able to get good radiative temperature measurements of planetary bodies) Remember up until about 70 years ago, scientists thought Venus had a near-earth temperature. In fact, "Martian Global Warming" is almost entirely related to fairly recent recession of the Martian South Polar Cap. We really don't know how these recessions compare with historical trends before the 20th century, however, because we don't have good telescopic photography of the planet's surface before then. There are very many reasons why this could happen, and the sun could be part of it, but since we have much less than 100 years of information of any kind to go on, you can't really infer trends or causalities.

We do have good information about solar intensity, which has gone up over the last 100 years as shown by the red line on the graph below. But is not nearly enough to generate the temperature rises we have seen on the earth.



By the way, I don't need to buy greenhouse gas credits to offset my motorsports activities. I make them happen by designing the mechanical systems for highly energy efficient buildings.

[Royal Tiger]

The major media outlets had Global Cooling as front page stuff, not 7 articles. Time and Newsweek did covers. Not a blip. I never said the Earth isn't getting warmer. Maybe it is. Maybe it's returning to "normal". Maybe it will get colder. How is it the climate changed, thousands of times before man had smokestacks and SUV's? I have issue with the all gore lovers who watch a movie, not a factual documentry and are now "experts". If you believe that we are accelerating the rise in greenhouse gases, maybe we are. I'm adament that al gore is an idiot, out for a buck. Hopefully you agree. I posted as such, you took it upon yourself do make little cute comments about my ability to think and reason. Stroke you e-ego all you like, I have nothing to prove to you. Now if we can agree on trying to stop the blatant destroying of the enviroment through air and water pollution, then maybe there are signs of hope for progress on that front.

[NapaBavarian]

Originally Posted by RSVX

My local grocery store has a spot to return bags after use, for recycling... its right outside the door.

Most if not all here do as well, but recycling takes energy too, reuse takes only some forethought

[shotgunslade]

Am in Istanbul, increasing my carbon footprint, but trying to provide Akbank with an energy efficient corporate operations center.

Comments I have made concerning people thinking about things are related to their recited sound bites from talk radio that can neither be factually refuted nor substantiated. "Global warming is junk science" is not a statement that can be verified. Junk science is not defined, and if "global warming" represents the many and varied efforts of hundreds of highly competent and dedicated scientists working on many different aspects of the climate issue, that have found some common issues and similar projections, the statement is likely false, if only for its comprehensive and simplistic characterization of wide ranging and diverse research.

In any event, here is a comparison of current recorded climate data, and consensu projections from IPCC Congresses in 1990, 1996 ane 2001. They seem to be capturing the continuing behaviour of global temperature rise.

[shotgunslade]

More Junk Science

ScienceDaily (Apr. 19, 2008) — The average global land temperature last month was the warmest on record and ocean surface temperatures were the 13th warmest. Combining the land and the ocean temperatures, the overall global temperature ranked the second warmest for the month of March. Global temperature averages have been recorded since 1880.

An analysis by NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center shows that the average temperature for March in the contiguous United States ranked near average for the past 113 years. It was the 63rd warmest March since record-keeping began in the United States in 1895.

Global Highlights

The global land surface temperature was the warmest on record for March, 3.3°F above the 20th century mean of 40.8°F. Temperatures more than 8°F above average covered much of the Asian continent. Two months after the greatest January snow cover extent on record on the Eurasian continent, the unusually warm temperatures led to rapid snow melt, and March snow cover extent on the Eurasian continent was the lowest on record.

The global surface (land and ocean surface) temperature was the second warmest on record for March in the 129-year record, 1.28°F above the 20th century mean of 54.9°F. The warmest March on record (1.33°F above average) occurred in 2002.

Although the ocean surface average was only the 13th warmest on record, as the cooling influence of La Niña in the tropical Pacific continued, much warmer than average conditions across large parts of Eurasia helped push the global average to a near record high for March.

Despite above average snowpack levels in the U.S., the total Northern Hemisphere snow cover extent was the fourth lowest on record for March, remaining consistent with boreal spring conditions of the past two decades, in which warming temperatures have contributed to anomalously low snow cover extent.

Some weakening of La Niña, the cold phase of the El Niño-Southern Oscillation, occurred in March, but moderate La Niña conditions remained across the tropical Pacific Ocean

[lhopp77]

I smell a conspiracy. As always said "figures can lie and liars can figure." As we all know, the perceived end results are frequently manipulated by comparisons used, scales used and/or selectively picking the data. I think I will wait for more detailed and independent data at the end of the year.

Lee

[GreenMarine]

Bottom Line...

Global Warming is TRUE and if anyone tells you otherwise you need to question their educational background. Then Question who is paying them to say what they say...

The Truth...

Overall Average temperature IS rising, and is directly related to CO2 emissions. Here is the kicker though. This has happened many MANY times before... The CO2 that humans produce is a portion of the total CO2 production of the planet, and YES we are accelerating the warming process by burning fossil fuels.

What can we do about it?...

Unfortunately for our children, their children and their children's children, this isn't a process that we can stop... We won't live to see the full effects of it, but the history books will show our complete lack of disrespect for the environment long after we are gone... I don't know about everyone else but that makes me sad... We have the knowelage to curb our emissions right now. The science and technology is there! What's stopping us? POLITICS AND ****ING MONEY!!!!

What the hell ever though... Believe whatever you want to believe. But all the evidence and research that is being done nowdays is definitely showing that we know we made mistakes in the past and have destroyed plenty.

~ Chris

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by GreenMarineSVX

Bottom Line...

Global Warming is TRUE and if anyone tells you otherwise you need to question their educational background. Then Question who is paying them to say what they say...

The Truth...

Overall Average temperature IS rising, and is directly related to CO2 emissions. Here is the kicker though. This has happened many MANY times before... The CO2 that humans produce is a portion of the total CO2 production of the planet, and YES we are accelerating the warming process by burning fossil fuels.

~ Chris

If you are directing these comments at me, maybe you should read some of my earlier posts. I fully agree that there IS Global Warming. I just question the panic and data generated by some of the Alley Gorey crowd.

The main question is--what do WE actually contribute to the warming and what can we do about it? Do our vehicular emissions really contribute as much as implied in the overall media madness. (Eventually fossil fuel availability will reduce this anyway.) I think the dumbest thing we ever did was to essentially stop nuclear power plant construction. I just support a more rational approach that is both realistic and achievable.

Lee

[NapaBavarian]

I'm less worried about global warming than I am about canada not selling food to the US when they become the farmbelt "you must stop shooting people USA, and learn french!"

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

The main question is--what do WE actually contribute to the warming and what can we do about it? Do our vehicular emissions really contribute as much as implied in the overall media madness. (Eventually fossil fuel availability will reduce this anyway.) I think the dumbest thing we ever did was to essentially stop nuclear power plant construction. I just support a more rational approach that is both realistic and achievable.

Lee

I like this approach Lee. I think of it as the pragmatic sceptic approach.


The opposite view can be looked on as the belligerent naive ostrich approach, believe what you want to believe to suit your lifestyle, disregard ALL numerical evidence, cows are farting more than our SUVs are pumping out, it's a government scheme to get more tax, etc, etc.

Here in Ireland we will not countenance nuclear energy because it is seen as a polluting system. We are a nation of tree huggers here who seem to forget that our recent ancestors denuded the natural forests of Ireland not too many moons ago in the interests of agronomy. Now we are dependent on oil energy, a finite and imported resource.

Nuclear energy seems an obvious solution to me, like you, a rational approach.

Blame Jane Fonda and Jack Lemmon. And maybe Homer Simpson.



Joe

[shotgunslade]

Agreed. Nuclear energy pursued in a rational fashion with a realistic long-term agreed upon plan for disposal of nuclear waste is a far better solution than "clean coal" or any other fossil fuel alternatives.

Nuclear energy doesn't have to be polluting and the waste issue can be solved. After all, the volume of nuclear waste that would need to be buried is far far smaller than the amount of carbon dioxide that would have to be stored in caves for carbon sequestration to have any effect at all.

[lhopp77]

Everyone should take this test and read all links and information provided.

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Gl...est/start.html

I missed one and should have known better even though the quesiton is sort of a trick question.

Lee

[BeneathNorthernSkys]

Just because I think its funny, I work at a grocery store called Yokes Fresh Market. People always do things like ask for paper....but then, as if the one bag isn't enough they say, wait...can you put the paper in plastic. After having such a request they rant about how they are helping the environment. I'm going to say part of the largest issue with our waste problem, globally, is that people are flat out ignorant and have no concepts of true problems. I

I had another guy say he only used paper because you can't kill dinosaurs anymore and thats where all our oil came from. I just looked at him, like you would a small disabled boy and went back to work. It's hard for me to understand where people get half their information, and why the hell they believe it. If you want to help fix things, read, educate yourself and stop going with the opinions placed by others, because the simple fact remains, we all error and regardless of degree's or certificates one may hold in a certain field, it doesn't make them right.

[lechnoid]

My quick thoughts before I go to work...

For decades, scientists have agreed that the earth is warming. Ignore the media (whether you believe it liberal for conservative), because ALL mainstream media is biased in one direction or the other dating back to the dawn of the printing press. Instead find the scientific publications. The ones that you generally have to go to a large library or university campus to find. The ones that go through an extensive peer review process. The ones that aren't published right away because it's "breaking news" but instead the publishers wait until it has received numerous other articles from other scientists agreeing.

Forget about Al Gore, GW Bush, or any other politician. Ignore them completely, as this discussion should have nothing to do with politics. This *should* be a scientific discussion.

For myself, I agree with the real scientific world in that the earth is getting warmer. I do this despite the fact that I live in Minnesota and we had snow as late as May this year. In my education both in engineering, mechanics, HazMat, and various other things (spent a long time in school at various institutions) I know that automobiles in industrialized countries contribute very little to pollution. Rather, it is the factories and power plants in the 3rd world nations that are the world's largest factor in pollution.

For anybody who thinks that the earth isn't warming (especially from a political standpoint), I have to say that I feel desperately sorry for you and that you should take a real solid look at how you interpret, analyze, and accept the information presented to you. Critical thinking is your friend. Embrace it and your life will improve.

[SVXMAN2001]

Lechnoid, a word of caution, when reading those "scholarly" journals make sure to identify who sponsored the research, many of times the research is self serving to major corporations who wish to have "independent" studies validating their products.

As for global warming, give it up, do we as a people really think that we are THAT significant...now before everyone disregards what i am saying, I think we can all come to the concensus that our every day habits certainly do not help the environmnet, we continually demand on an ever increasing scale our earth's resources with very little effort to replenish. However, the earth has been around for many years before us and will be around for many after. Who are we to think that we are soooo significant to permanently alter the earth's composition. If we are sincere and honestly look at the data available, the data can be massaged to support OR refute the alleged occurence of global warming. Yes the polar ice caps are melting, but the hole in the ozone is shrinking, where does that leave us? I honestly believe, this whole global warming issue is yet another political party agenda (can benefit either of the major parties depending on how they spin it) to pull a shroud over the american people's eyes and turn their attention away from the real issues are nation is facing...an increasing national debt, homelessness, unemployment, unsafe working conditions, the housing market, barely livable minimum wages, i could go on and on, on how are governmnet needs a competent, courageous group of leaders.