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#916
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Yeah I agree too, this makes sense.
Now guys do you think that the temperature of water in both banks is equal? Or there is still a difference since the pump flows water to one bank before the other?
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Danny 1994 Silver SVX in hybernation, awaiting for the monsterous awakening (Lebanon) 1967 Mercedes-Benz 250SL Euro Specs, Hard/Softtop, White/Red. Under Complete Restoration 2013 Mercedes-Benz SL350 Euro Specs, White/Red. Mint... Another step into SL Collection. |
#917
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
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Unfortunately you are arguing over a point of difference between us which does not exist. You raise matters which are not in debate. I understand that in effect you are stating that circulating pressure, at the inlet/suction side the pump, can not exceed the outlet pressure. I agree and have never stated otherwise. What is more, if there is a circuit having very little resistance between the pump outlet and inlet, the circulating pressure within the circuit will amount to very little. In any event the the lowest pressure point will occur, immediately after the maximum point of restriction. Circulating pressure is dependent on resistance/restriction within the circuit and can only be measured as a difference point to point within the circuit and is no way related to gauge pressure. Gauge pressure i.e. that above atmospheric, is not directly involved in the efficiency of circulation, but does have a profound side effects as I mentioned when discussing your test rig. It would appear that you theorise that suction applied by the pump is restricted by the inlet pipe, to the extent that the pump is being prevented from drawing in as much fluid as it is capable of pumping out. For this to be true, the pipe must constitute the highest point of restriction within the circuit. There has been no evidence presented to support such a prospect.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
#918
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
#919
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Ok trevor, you may obviously ignore what i say (or change it to mean what you want) as you have done so so many times. but i do not see how you change my comment about the pump and its restrictions
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Point proven, no need to go further in this aspect Quote:
this low-pressure/high-vacuum spoken of is where the T-Stat cover comes into play. As every intelligent person would agree, a larger pipe can flow a larger amount of liquid in a shorter amount of time. When this is compared to a smaller pipe at the same length of time, the speed of the liquid through the pipe is less in the larger pipe, as well as the vacuum or pressure required to cause such flow (in a level plane) would be lower in the larger pipe. Now, the t-stat cover "may" be able to flow the volume of liquid required to keep the engine cool, but in so doing, my theory is such that, the pump would be required generate a vacuum higher than that of the level where the pump begins to cavitate. Quote:
the ONLY time I feel bashing is appropriate is when it causes a constructive outcome. Constructive outcome in this case: becoming closer to finding the solution to the problem at hand. In your case, i do not feel that insulting other peoples intelligence causes any sort of constructive outcome. You may scorn, change my words or the intended implications thereof, rant, comment, complain, or just be a general git about this, but the facts and understanding I (and many other I am sure) have of this and your comments are clear. The following Paragraph is my translation of the sum of your comments, do not read if you feel that this could anger you (as this is not my purpose). "Hey, try being smart, like me. Do it my way. What, your doing wrong. Do it my way. You have no understanding of this. Do it my way. You have no idea. That doesn't help at all. What?, you're doing it my way, well then make sure to do it perfect(but my way might not work unless you do it perfect). Hey, you don't know. Try being intelligent. I'm just trying to help." ETCETERA Now, i have proven my point and no longer wish to be in this (or any sort of) discussion with you, as I feel that I have better uses for my time." Now, to those who's usernames are not trevor. I would love to be a part in helping find the cause of the overheating in the race engines. I do not have time or the means at the moment to do any sort of tests. IF i have an idea that could be useful, i will post it. But i will not try to enforce it. For the most part, those posting here are very intelligent, and will use any and all input to reach a verdict and solution. It is a joy to read through this thread and to observe how this has escalated from being nowhere to having a Cause, and possibly a solution. Further we may just have the coolant paths in the block left to discuss, which for most of us would not be something we would lightheartedly tackle.
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SVXT6 (Pearly) just got running 201,000 (body) 105,000 (engine) Honda FT500 Ascot [Red] Last edited by Ironhydroxide; 01-24-2010 at 08:14 AM. |
#920
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Trevor, I have read this entire thread from page 1, and a great majority of your posts come off quite blatantly as argumentative, standoffish, and have a consistently holier-than-thou attitude about them. While you may not personally consider that to be 'bashing', many people here would. I do recognize that you are quite intelligent (you are the one who found the flaw in my timing unit way back when, after all), but you are arguing directly against an irrigation pump engineer, a man with an apparent background in fluid thermodynamics, and an employee of NASA's special vehicles division. To me, that would seem something of a folly.
I think we should just sit back, take our drinks of choice, and take a break from the keyboards while people fit Tony's modifications to an SVX. Arguing about it on the internet while the solution awaits accomplishes little. Real-world testing makes or breaks the whole argument without a single word needing be typed. |
#921
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Well like I said, I need to fit the inline thermostat to Dan's car... Finish y break-in period with it and do some test runs... I can data log the coolant temp with revs and load with the hydra and I plan on it... If anything seems to jump out I will see about trying a couple variations of the larger stat cover..
Tom |
#922
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
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Thanks for the input! Looking forward to the data provided by your testing. -Bill
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Retired NASA Rocket Scientist Most famous NASA "Child" - OSIRIS-REx delivered samples from asteroid BENNU to Earth in Sept. 2023 Center Network Member #989 '92 Fully caged, 5 speed, waiting for its fully built EG33 '92 "Test Mule", 4:44 Auto, JDM 4:44 Rear Diff with Mech LSD, Tuned headers, Full one-off suspension '92(?) Laguna, 6 spd and other stuff (still at OT's place) My Locker |
#923
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
I have my head around how the pressure and suction works, this is the rule.
The flow through any part of the circut "AFTER" the largest pressure restriction must be greater in vacum then the flow through that restriction. You need to take on board what Ironhydroxide said about the straw test and remember that the suction has to be a lot larger then the pressure side. In my example before with the stand alone pump I had 33mm from the outlet to the inlet of the pump. Under this set up the 33mm was not a restriction to the pump so there was no pressure reading BUT it was a restriction to the suction as it was to small and caused the pump to cavitate. When I changed the pipe to 45mm but left the oulet cap on the pump at 33mm that point became the point of restriction or pressure. The suction side at 45mm exceeded or staisfied the rule as it was larger in flow under suction then that the flow on the pressure side. If we apply this rule to our standard cooling systems we find that the main top pipe etc are 33mm and the therm cover is 29mm we have a major problem. It is worth noting that any problem on the vacum side can be found with a vacum guage into the suction of pump. SilverSpear in answer to your question about left and right bank temps there is still a 2-5 degree difference between them. It is not related to the position happy to explain if you want and how to fix. Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#924
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
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Wouldn't 2-5 degrees be within the error band of your instrumentation? I'd say that having the two banks this close would be a case of "good enough, let's move to the next problem" -Bill
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Retired NASA Rocket Scientist Most famous NASA "Child" - OSIRIS-REx delivered samples from asteroid BENNU to Earth in Sept. 2023 Center Network Member #989 '92 Fully caged, 5 speed, waiting for its fully built EG33 '92 "Test Mule", 4:44 Auto, JDM 4:44 Rear Diff with Mech LSD, Tuned headers, Full one-off suspension '92(?) Laguna, 6 spd and other stuff (still at OT's place) My Locker |
#925
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
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Many may conclude that mature debate constitutes “bashing”. Likewise any correction of errors. If so, again the situation does not concern me. I exactly understand the credentials of those with whom I am debating and give credit accordingly. You on the other hand without evidence, indicate that I am not a worthy contender. I do not accept your judgement and will not stand aside. I fully agree with your final paragraph. However it has been evident that some have had in mind, spending time and effort on the basis of what has been presented to date whereby nothing is proven. This has been my concern. I have already commented that this has become a stupid thread. It is accepted that those debating may be stupid in spending so much time in doing so, but valid information has come to light and the exercise is proving interesting. The above narrative no doubt again presents a quite blatant, argumentative, stand offish, and consistently holier-than-thou attitude. I make no apology.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
#926
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
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Exactly, and as I understand it, this is a point in the circuit which is situated after the radiator pipe and the point of inlet within the pump cap. As a result it must be presumed that the critical restriction involves the pump cap/cover rather than the pipe. Altering the radiator outlet involves extensive work and cost as Tom has pointed out. You have made two modifications and tested both at the same time. Only an enlarged cap/cover may be required. Futile argument has become the order of the day. As I earlier detected and pointed out, the major problem here invoves the need to communicate via the written word. I am confident that across a table, with the means to draw and sketch, we would be away like a house on fire.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
#927
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Wonder what is the record for the lengthiest thread on this forum?
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____________________________________________ 95 LS-i Red, 31,xxx; bone stock for now; Daily Driver 94 LS-i Emerald Pearl, 106,xxx,; 246 whp; Tomyx snorkus and HKS Cold air intake; PWR aluminum radiator, silicone hoses; Inline thermostat; enhanced coolant routing; external power steering and oil coolers; Phenolic intake manifold spacers; 2004 WRX 5 speed transmission; ACT Clutch Kit, Heavy Duty Pressure Plate, Lightweight flywheel, performance disc; Group N motor mounts; ‘07 WRX 4-pot front calipers, cryo-treated slotted Tribeca rotors; Hawk HPS ferro-carbon pads; Frozenrotor rear slotted rotors; SS brake lines, Axxis Ultimate pads; Rota Torque 17x8 wheels; 245/40-17 Bridgestone RE01-R's; Koni inserts with Ground Control coilovers, Eibach springs; K-Mac camber/caster adjustable strut mounts; Urethane swaybar bushings; Bontrager rear sway bar; Urethane differential bushing; Custom Whiteline adjustable rear lateral links; Outlaw Engineering forged underdrive pulley; custom grind Web intake and exhaust cams (11 mm lift, 250° duration); solid lifters; CP custom aluminum forged 11 to 1 pistons, Brian Crower coated SS intake & exhaust valves; Brian Crower upgraded springs w/ titanium retainers; NGK sparkplugs; RallyBob (Bob Legere) ported and polished cylinder heads; Eagle H-beam rods; ACL Bearings; Cometic Head gaskets; ARP head studs & fasteners; Hydra Nemesis EMS; Wideband O2 sensor; 740cc Injectors; Walbro 255lph fuel pump; Upgraded WRX starter; Equal length SS headers (3 into 1); dual Magnaflow cat converters; 2 into 1 into 2 SS exhaust with Bullet muffler; OT Fiberglass hood; Oil pressure gauge; Programmable shift light, 2017 Subaru Forester XT, metallic dark gray, 29,xxx 2005 Porsche 911 Turbo S Cabrio, 24,xxx 2006 Subaru Outback LL Bean, 166,xxx sold 92 LSL Dark Teal, Smallcar Shift Kit - sold |
#928
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
As you are so fond of saying in this thread, you have provided no evidence that you are anything but a person arguing with people whose credentials are not in debate. If you wish to resolve this grave error in my judgement, then it would appear the resolution is simple.
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#929
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Sorry I've been out of this thread for awhile Been fighting a chest cold and my computer crashed a few weeks back. Had to wait for a damn recovery/reboot CD from the manufacture
Can someone take/post/send me a picture of the OEM lower SVX radiator hose attached to the rad and pump. A straight on pic from below would be ideal. I haven't been able to do a single thing here due to the above crap, but I did get the pump and thermo housing form the member here and I'd like to do a little testing before I dig into the next customer project I have scheduled up here. I can't really go by anything with my WRX as it's not setup like you guys have. Different rad, different frontal area, WRX purge tank, etc, etc. There's absolutely no way I can replicate your cars' running status. FWIW I have not been able to get this car to overheat, but again my system is different and it's also ~15-30F out here in the winter months. |
#930
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
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-Bill
__________________
Retired NASA Rocket Scientist Most famous NASA "Child" - OSIRIS-REx delivered samples from asteroid BENNU to Earth in Sept. 2023 Center Network Member #989 '92 Fully caged, 5 speed, waiting for its fully built EG33 '92 "Test Mule", 4:44 Auto, JDM 4:44 Rear Diff with Mech LSD, Tuned headers, Full one-off suspension '92(?) Laguna, 6 spd and other stuff (still at OT's place) My Locker |
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