Twin Turbo EG33 Build - cozykat

[Tapani]

Marisa, any progress on your build?

We got 8" more snow. How I do miss San Antonio .

Tapani

[cozykat]

Originally Posted by Tapani

Marisa, any progress on your build?

We got 8" more snow. How I do miss San Antonio .

Tapani

My update feels like no update.

No snow here.. just been cold, windy, and rainy. Of course, as soon as my vacation is over, it is an awesome 64°... so I can admire the day while stuck in a lab. No worries, it will be cold and rainy again by Friday and through the weekend. :/

We've just been trying to get the Hydra to start with the stock engine. I had Hydra upgrade the Nemesis to 2.7 version (for included support and easier programming interface) and add a pin to control the iris valve. With the upgrade, they put a new base map on the unit so I was hoping it would be plug and play.

It's been an interesting issue. I can connect the stock ECU and stock engine starts/idles/drives. Disconnect the stock ECU and then connect the Hydra Nemesis and the engine tries to start but just can't.

Matt has been talking/getting guidance from Phil at Element Tuning. Phil has been a great support and wealth of knowledge. (side note: a 2.6 map will not import & update into version 2.7, the information has to be manually copied over)
This no-start issue has simply left everyone scratching their head as to why it's not just working. While the nemesis fires the spark plugs differently (i.e. does batch firing), I'm not sure what else could be so different that the car won't start. We did get the car to start with version 2.6 by adjusting Kirill's map and 2.6 also does batch firing. So ... The best advice we can get is that we need to go through the normal troubleshooting of seeing what's not getting triggered/applied properly (spark, fuel, or air). So I've just been waiting for a less rainy day to systematically troubleshoot the issue (because the SVX is outside and i don't like to be cold).

Once I get this issue resolved, I'll point out my installation flaws and be sure to share my base map to help others (it will just be for a stock vehicle so it shouldn't upset anyone, hopefully ).

[Svx95]

Originally Posted by cozykat

My update feels like no update.

No snow here.. just been cold, windy, and rainy. Of course, as soon as my vacation is over, it is an awesome 64°... so I can admire the day while stuck in a lab. No worries, it will be cold and rainy again by Friday and through the weekend. :/

We've just been trying to get the Hydra to start with the stock engine. I had Hydra upgrade the Nemesis to 2.7 version (for included support and easier programming interface) and add a pin to control the iris valve. With the upgrade, they put a new base map on the unit so I was hoping it would be plug and play.

It's been an interesting issue. I can connect the stock ECU and stock engine starts/idles/drives. Disconnect the stock ECU and then connect the Hydra Nemesis and the engine tries to start but just can't.

Matt has been talking/getting guidance from Phil at Element Tuning. Phil has been a great support and wealth of knowledge. (side note: a 2.6 map will not import & update into version 2.7, the information has to be manually copied over)
This no-start issue has simply left everyone scratching their head as to why it's not just working. While the nemesis fires the spark plugs differently (i.e. does batch firing), I'm not sure what else could be so different that the car won't start. We did get the car to start with version 2.6 by adjusting Kirill's map and 2.6 also does batch firing. So ... The best advice we can get is that we need to go through the normal troubleshooting of seeing what's not getting triggered/applied properly (spark, fuel, or air). So I've just been waiting for a less rainy day to systematically troubleshoot the issue (because the SVX is outside and i don't like to be cold).

Once I get this issue resolved, I'll point out my installation flaws and be sure to share my base map to help others (it will just be for a stock vehicle so it shouldn't upset anyone, hopefully ).

Marisa,
I know too well how that goes. The days of vacation are always filled with nasty weather and upon return to work the sun shines...WTF!

Even if it feels like no progress has been made, you really have made a lot.

The situation with HYDRA 2.6 vs 2.7 tune is very interesting but not unheard of.

Just a couple days ago I was talking with a buddy that uses/used COBB AP to tune a customers 2014 Nissan GTR and after the customer traded in the '14 for the '15 model the COBB AP (whole new system as they can't be unmarried, well they can but not what happened here) was no longer able to communicate with the car. They went back and forth with COBB for about 15 days and like you said "everyone is scratching their head" and it seems to be that it's NOT going to work due to the ECU for the '15 GTR being unable to communicate with the COBB AP and vice versa. I believe they were going to switch to ECUtek as they are one of/ if not the only system that supports the '15 GTR at the moment!

Back to the the SVX acting like its going to start, maybe its just a temperature factor. Have you or Phil mentioned altering the temperature parameters (especially if its really cold out) to see if that will help or actually make it start. I remember seeing a video on youtube (Hydra EMS 20 degree cold start Element Tuning) way back maybe 2 years ago of him messing with some temperature setting on the Hydra 2.6 I believe. ( Actually I checked and it was the 2.7!)

Hopefully you can get this sorted out as the Hydra 2.7 is what I'm planning on using in the near distant future. My buddy used to tune Hydra back when it was 2.1..... and hasn't touched it since so he was pretty surprised they were up to Version 2.7.

Anyway, good luck! Hopefully this gets figured out sooner than later as you have me sitting on the edge of the chair and I dont want to fall

[Svx95]

Here is part 2 to the cold tune start. Hope this helps even just a little! Hydra EMS 20 Degree Cold Start Part 2 Element Tuning

[cozykat]

Thanks Sam! It's something to keep in the back of my mind. I don't think cold starting is my issue (well, wasn't the issue during previous start-up attempts as it's just now getting into the 20s). Texas usually enjoys 40-70 degree winters. I know there was one temperature discrepancy - the air temperature is just not reading (but it didn't read in version 2.6 either and Phil said it shouldn't make a difference).

So for my next weather-permitted, availability I plan to check the wiring and look at which, if any, of the cylinders are attempting to fire with the Hydra and try to think what could be so different between the engine management systems. I think this will all require a bit more investigative work than I was hoping at this stage of the install... but I'm sure there will be some good lessons learned.

Concerning upgrading from 2.6 to 2.7: I feel should also correct my statement/clarify to say that you actually can import a 2.6 map to 2.7 but not all the tables are one-to-one. So you have to effectively open both applications (on different operating systems as they didn't like being install on the same laptop - however 1 or 2 virtual machines would help with this) and compare/copy over what's different. Not terrible, just something to note.

I'm just hoping there is a terrible oversight on my part and that I'll walk out, say "oh my! duh!" and success! Then I can refocus on installing the built engine and fight with that.

[SVXRide]

Marisa

Has Phil been able to tell you EXACTLY what changed between 2.6 and 2.7? My guess is that they moved some parameters around and now the Hydra's brain is scrambled when it tries to run the EG33.

Bill

[cozykat]

Hi Bill,

Maybe? Aside from look-and-feel, I don't know exactly what all has changed between software versions but we haven't really pushed for a breakdown of the software/firmware enhancements yet. Just focusing on start-up, Phil has told us the batch firing is the same between versions (and we could start the car with 2.6) so we trying to rule out potential hardware issues.

On the progress side: the Nemesis adapter cabling is pinned out to correctly and the configured firing order is correct.. so I think with a bit more investigation into the rest of the start up process, we will find what isn't occurring.

[cozykat]

I forgot to post updated pictures:

grimmspeed's port and polish:


and how the engine sits today (well, since September), waiting...

[Svx95]

Wow, very nice! Super clean I hope some day my engine will be that clean.

Looking at the pictures reminded me that I've been looking for the o-ring or gasket that goes in the iris butterfly system? Do you have a part # by any chance? I looked over my parts catalogue but couldn't find it

[1040]

The best engine that I ever seen.
I wish you soon cranking.
Best regards

[Tapani]

Yes, absolutely beautiful !

What's the performance target Marisa?

What's your drive train?

Keep up the stunning level of detail

Kind regards,

/Tapani

[cozykat]

Originally Posted by Svx95

Wow, very nice! Super clean I hope some day my engine will be that clean.

Looking at the pictures reminded me that I've been looking for the o-ring or gasket that goes in the iris butterfly system? Do you have a part # by any chance? I looked over my parts catalogue but couldn't find it

Ask Tom aka SVXFiles - I got mine from him.

Originally Posted by 1040

The best engine that I ever seen.
I wish you soon cranking.
Best regards

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Tapani

Yes, absolutely beautiful !
What's the performance target Marisa?
What's your drive train?
Keep up the stunning level of detail
Kind regards,
/Tapani

Thanks! Ultimately, I'd like to make 300 whp (I think that's a reasonable goal with forced induction). However, I'll be driving it na until I can make up my mind on which turbo. Also, the stock drive train is still in place but I have a 6 speed standing by.

Quick update: Got the engine to turn over and idle with the Hydra today! Last night, we went and tested each coil pack and discovered that the hydra was only firing cylinder 2. Plugged in stock ECU, verified each coil pack operated as expected. Then for good measure we installed new spark plugs and changed the oil. Today, we got feedback from Phil to update some ignition settings and I came home to the SVX idling! Next steps are to adjust the tables to get it drivable.

So for the curious:
Settings > Base Ignition Settings - both waste spark and direct fire need to be checked (we tried unchecking one or the other, and the result was no start.)
Settings > Ignition triggers - Timing reference angle should be 65 degrees (this was already set)

[Tireiron]

Originally Posted by cozykat

So for the curious:
Settings > Base Ignition Settings - both waste spark and direct fire need to be checked (we tried unchecking one or the other, and the result was no start.)
Settings > Ignition triggers - Timing reference angle should be 65 degrees (this was already set)

Very interesting seeing as mine only requires Direct Fire and runs great. The SVX is not a waste spark system so it really shouldn't need to run as one. I wonder what your other settings are under Ignition triggers...

I run
Sequencer = 3
Timing Reference Angle = 68 (need to get a better timing light so i can get this exact around 65 is close)
Trigger Edge = Falling
Sync Edge = Falling
Trigger Type = Generic 12 tooth
Sync Type = Generic 12/24 tooth
Cylinders = 6

[Svx95]

Originally Posted by cozykat

Ask Tom aka SVXFiles - I got mine from him.

Quick update: Got the engine to turn over and idle with the Hydra today! Last night, we went and tested each coil pack and discovered that the hydra was only firing cylinder 2. Plugged in stock ECU, verified each coil pack operated as expected. Then for good measure we installed new spark plugs and changed the oil. Today, we got feedback from Phil to update some ignition settings and I came home to the SVX idling! Next steps are to adjust the tables to get it drivable.

So for the curious:
Settings > Base Ignition Settings - both waste spark and direct fire need to be checked (we tried unchecking one or the other, and the result was no start.)
Settings > Ignition triggers - Timing reference angle should be 65 degrees (this was already set)

Ok will do, thanks!

That is great Marisa, I'm sure there was a lot of relief once you heard it run! BTW thanks for posting the info for the curious
COPY PASTE

[SVXRide]

Marisa

Could yourself fortunate! Grimmspeed has gotten out of the porting business
No reason given on their website.

Bill