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#31
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
Okay I will check the size Harvey.
In this photo of the under side #75 you can see on the left the return pipe. In photo 74 you can see the pipe enter the sump this is at the fly wheel end of the motor. Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#32
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
If ours is a 12mm, what size is used in "the other engines"?
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www.svxfiles.com The first SuperCharged SVX, the first 4.44 gears, the first equal length headers, the first phenolic spacers, the first Class Glass fiberglass hood, the first with 4, 4.44s in his driveway Fiberglass Hood thread My locker 4.44 Swap link |
#33
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
The 4 cylinders use a 10mm? I think.
Harvey.
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One Arm Bloke. Tell it like it is! 95 Lsi. Bordeaux Pearl, Aust. RHD.149,000Kls Subaru BBS wheels. 97 Liberty GX Auto sedan. 320,000Kls. 04 Liberty 30R Auto Premium. 92.000kls. |
#34
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
Quote:
Harvey.
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One Arm Bloke. Tell it like it is! 95 Lsi. Bordeaux Pearl, Aust. RHD.149,000Kls Subaru BBS wheels. 97 Liberty GX Auto sedan. 320,000Kls. 04 Liberty 30R Auto Premium. 92.000kls. |
#35
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/COSWORTH-HIG...sories&vxp=mtr
This shows up on MY computer, I can only hope it shows up here.
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www.svxfiles.com The first SuperCharged SVX, the first 4.44 gears, the first equal length headers, the first phenolic spacers, the first Class Glass fiberglass hood, the first with 4, 4.44s in his driveway Fiberglass Hood thread My locker 4.44 Swap link |
#36
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
BTW, I have only brought this forth to show the differance in 10 mm to 12mm oil pumps.
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www.svxfiles.com The first SuperCharged SVX, the first 4.44 gears, the first equal length headers, the first phenolic spacers, the first Class Glass fiberglass hood, the first with 4, 4.44s in his driveway Fiberglass Hood thread My locker 4.44 Swap link |
#37
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
It has a pipe that goes into the sump below the oil level so that makes sense.
Do you have a opinion on the cams used on this motor tha Bazza found. Here is the list so Far Engine: TechWorks Engineering EG33 closed deck block with T sleeves Ion nitrated isotropic finished crank TechWorks Engineering coated main and rod bearings Carrillo H beam connecting rods with ARP custom aged 625 rod bolts TechWorks Engineering 100mm 10.25 compression pistons/moly graphite treated skirts/ceramic coated tops total Seal rings TechWorks Engineering spec titanium Ti 17 wrist pins TechWorks Engineering Custom ported Heads TechWorks Engineering spec titanium intake valve with Crn coating TechWorks Engineering spec titanium high temp exhaust valves with trick 2 coating TechWorks Engineering custom 42CrMo4 cams 560/280 intake. 520/270 exhaust TechWorks Engineering custom inner adjustable cam gears CDF Racing custom outer adjustable cam gears TechWorks Engineering Custom valve springs/titanium retainers ARP 625 custom aged head studs ARP 625 custom aged case bolts Injector Dynamic ID2000-14-60 injectors Custom fuel rails Custom intake manifold Twin 75 mm throttle bodies Twin modified GT 3582r turbo’s Twin Tial 42mm waste gates Custom stainless steel headers Custom designed Dry sump Wizards of Nos programable progressive nitrous system Areomotive 11107 gear drive fuel pump Areomotive 13113 Fuel pressure regulators Hydra stand alone 2.7 EMS with launch control Seems TechWorks Engineering maybe a good sourece of parts for EG33's. Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#38
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
Sorry it took so long Harvey had to make some parts for the factory on the mill.
Your answer, The 2 galleries along the top are 14mm diameter, the one feeding the back bearings is the same length all the way throught to the back. No real reason why the back would run short of oil. The outlet behind the pump that feeds the oil filter and bearing is 15mm. I think the issue is flow. If you think about it and I am remembering what Adam said about the oil pump. The cosworth is the same size as ours. MY THEORY I think the numbers tell the story a pump rotor of 12mm being 2mm more then the 4 cyclinder means the pump only has 20% more oil. The EG33 has 7 bearings 2 more then the 4 cyclinder at 5. This means in simple terms the engine has 40% more bearings or bearings area. The even more bad news is it has 50% more power so how is 20% more oil going to do the job. A dry sump is the only way out of this one. No wonder Matt and other had bearing issues. Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. Last edited by Dessertrunner; 06-11-2012 at 03:04 AM. |
#39
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
Quote:
Just to clarify, my bearings never failed and I've never done a big end to date I only saw the massive oil surge in the video replay and also noticed my oil pressure below what I was comfortable with so I chose to rebuild the engine, nothing worse than turning up to a track day and having something fail and ruin the day. My only oiling problem was the stuck sump which was never built to handle ridiculous G forces. This hopefully is now fixed with a dry sump setup. Quote:
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_f...All-Categories Quote:
Could be an idea using an electric pump to feed the mechanical pump. From my own testing, using 2 x inline pumps on my pool I was suprised to see that a little electric pump feeding the big electrical pump would remove all cavitation and increase flow nicely. It actually removed the need to prime the big pump in my case. Would be the same with the car as the flow was about the same. I've never tested like Tony did with the EG33 pump, but I had no issues revving an EJ2X water pump to 8500+ rpm for years with many different engine combos with a lot of power and I honestly don't see how the EG33 would be in issue when upgraded as per Tony's recommendations. That's correct. They started making some 11mm ones for the 4 bangers when they started using dual AVCS - must take a fair bit of oil to drive the solenoids etc. Quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbB1qwhKaaE One other thing to note Tony, Andy's 1000 bhp EG33 ripped the stock oil pump to pieces... cannot find the pics but it's smashed. Also with those Techwork cams they're massive hehe. For the EG33 NA, might be an idea to copy some Porsche type cams and or get Harvey to design them. Those ones above are for a turbo application and with turbo cam selection it's really something that can be done blind folded.. pretty hard to get wrong... the turbo tends to make things work even if they shouldn't. I'd definetely go solid buckets and find the lightest everything else in the valve train. The only worry I'd have is the later STI's (V5 STI+) all went to far bigger bucket diameter than the old ones - I wonder if that engineering change is RPM related?! Last edited by bazza; 06-11-2012 at 08:22 AM. |
#40
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
Quote:
Frank told me that on the later cam designs he ran he had to have the base circle diameter reduced as he was at about .550" (13.97 mm) valve lift. Jack's engine only has .460" (exh) lift max, and we still needed a bunch of clearancing. A bigger bucket diameter would have alleviated the first problem anyway.... |
#41
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
I think you guys know already, but I'm in the process of building an engine as well. So far I have not taken the block and heads to the machine shop, so I'm in a position right now where I can still do a lot. But, my goals are a bit different from you guys'. I am planning on only revving it to 7500, and letting a well-sized turbo do most of the work. The power goals are not very ambitious, but I'd like to see at least 300 at the wheels. 350 and I'd be ecstatic. So if anyone has any suggestions for me I'd love to hear them.
I am not sure whether a dry sump would be the way to go in my case, since I'm not planning on revving the crap out of it like you guys. But if there are improvements to be had, then I'm all ears, and I'm not ruling out a dry sump if it can be done reasonably inexpensively. Some miscellaneous info/thoughts/questions: Arias carries EG33 head stud sets for $300 (cheaper than 2 $200 sets of EJ20 studs): http://www.atomicspeedware.com/ej33svx92-97.aspx If anyone wants the sizes/part numbers for the studs let me know as I have them written down somewhere. Is there any way we could make a pump that's a bigger size than our stock pump? Sort of like the cosworth 12mm pump that replaces the 10mm EJ pumps? Maybe machine one that's 15mm instead of 12mm? I still really like the idea of switching to a timing chain - what all would need to be done in order to make that happen?
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'94 Laguna Blue LSi ~159k.......JDM ultra short-geared 3.900 STi Version 7 6-speed w/ Cobb shortshifter, ECUtune 244,8.1mm/256,9.1mm i/e cams, group N motor mounts, '97 grille, JDM clear corners, Momo JDM Legacy GT steering wheel, apkarian's LED tails, silver STi BBS wheels, PWR radiator, redstuff pads f/r, drilled/slotted rotors, bontragerworks rsb #18, Koni/GC 450f/375r coilovers, Megan Racing adjustable lateral links, KMac c/c plates, Stebro exhaust, ECUtune 1v5, Optima battery in the trunk where it belongs. Turbo project '97 Ebony LSi ~137k #036.......Power mode mod, JDM clear corners, BBS wheels. AUX/pocket mod Now a mod "over there" ............Photo album |
#42
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
Quote:
Bill
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Retired NASA Rocket Scientist Most famous NASA "Child" - OSIRIS-REx delivered samples from asteroid BENNU to Earth in Sept. 2023 Center Network Member #989 '92 Fully caged, 5 speed, waiting for its fully built EG33 '92 "Test Mule", 4:44 Auto, JDM 4:44 Rear Diff with Mech LSD, Tuned headers, Full one-off suspension '92(?) Laguna, 6 spd and other stuff (still at OT's place) My Locker |
#43
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
Is there agreement that what we're looking for is more oil flow rate not increased pressure? My impression is that we're already at a 12mm pump and they only alternatives available only increase pressure (?).
Bill
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Retired NASA Rocket Scientist Most famous NASA "Child" - OSIRIS-REx delivered samples from asteroid BENNU to Earth in Sept. 2023 Center Network Member #989 '92 Fully caged, 5 speed, waiting for its fully built EG33 '92 "Test Mule", 4:44 Auto, JDM 4:44 Rear Diff with Mech LSD, Tuned headers, Full one-off suspension '92(?) Laguna, 6 spd and other stuff (still at OT's place) My Locker |
#44
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
Subscribing...
We really should document all achievements in making the EG33 better in one sticky thread. Some threads are getting lost, and info forgotten. Hope someone could spare the time to do such thread.
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Danny 1994 Silver SVX in hybernation, awaiting for the monsterous awakening (Lebanon) 1967 Mercedes-Benz 250SL Euro Specs, Hard/Softtop, White/Red. Under Complete Restoration 2013 Mercedes-Benz SL350 Euro Specs, White/Red. Mint... Another step into SL Collection. |
#45
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
Hi Danny I agree and will try to document some of this as we go. Maybe we need to add a bit of structure as you suggest.
Suggestion What about having a break out group pick a person to head that group and they go and solve one problem. The one that comes to mind is the springs and lifters on Cams that will enable maxium lift. In other words not the actual cam just what has to be done to make maxium lift. Need to pick a head person and a team to work with that person. What do you think???? Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
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