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  #31  
Old 11-20-2012, 11:13 AM
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RallyBob RallyBob is offline
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Re: Were Should I Spend my EG33 Dollars to Kick Ass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subarvair View Post
The headers are either 2.25 or 2.5 into 3" and about 25" tubes. I hope that's not too big.
Seems a bit too large. We went with 1.75" primaries and I was concerned they were too large. For most applications 1.625" is more than enough to support 250-300 whp. But given our final power and rpms the 1.75" worked out okay.

I can't imagine such short and large primary tubes unless you were making 550-600 whp and spinning up 10,000 rpms.

JMTCW...
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  #32  
Old 11-20-2012, 03:41 PM
dynomatt dynomatt is offline
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Re: Were Should I Spend my EG33 Dollars to Kick Ass.

Hi Mike,

I run MS and had ignition issues initially...there's a thread on the MS forums about it and references the fix we found.

I'm happy to give you my files if that helps?

Matt
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  #33  
Old 11-20-2012, 04:17 PM
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Re: Were Should I Spend my EG33 Dollars to Kick Ass.

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Originally Posted by dynomatt View Post
Hi Mike,

I run MS and had ignition issues initially...there's a thread on the MS forums about it and references the fix we found.

I'm happy to give you my files if that helps?

Matt
The VR conditioner that's used in yours I think is different than the one that's in the MS3. Do you know if there are a couple of adjustable "pots" on the board? So it may not be directly applicable, but I, and probably Mike if he searched the MS forums, was able to find the old posts by you and the guy who helped set it up initially, that cover what was done: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...p?f=94&t=24695

Matt, do you know where along the wire the resistor was added?

Also, a question. On the MS forums one of the fixes for sync loss is adding resistors, but sometimes they are added inline with the signal wire, and sometimes, they are added across the signal and ground wires. Or sometimes both. What does this accomplish and why would that be a remedy? Harvey? Or anyone?
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'94 Laguna Blue LSi ~159k.......JDM ultra short-geared 3.900 STi Version 7 6-speed w/ Cobb shortshifter, ECUtune 244,8.1mm/256,9.1mm i/e cams, group N motor mounts, '97 grille, JDM clear corners, Momo JDM Legacy GT steering wheel, apkarian's LED tails, silver STi BBS wheels, PWR radiator, redstuff pads f/r, drilled/slotted rotors, bontragerworks rsb #18, Koni/GC 450f/375r coilovers, Megan Racing adjustable lateral links, KMac c/c plates, Stebro exhaust, ECUtune 1v5, Optima battery in the trunk where it belongs. Turbo project

'97 Ebony LSi ~137k #036.......Power mode mod, JDM clear corners, BBS wheels. AUX/pocket mod

Now a mod "over there" ............Photo album

Last edited by icingdeath88; 11-20-2012 at 04:26 PM.
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  #34  
Old 11-20-2012, 04:40 PM
bazza bazza is offline
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Re: Were Should I Spend my EG33 Dollars to Kick Ass.

I don't know how you guys can put 2-3K+ worth of parts in your engines, take months and even years to build it all up patiently, nicely with a lot of love and then run it with something so unreliable, troublesome and nasty. Don't you think it would be better to spend that coin on the ecu and run the stock internals or at least reduce internal work etc?

The ECU is the most important part in your car, my advice is to invest in it (doesn't have to be expensive, just run something known to work without drama) or you will pay the price via by wasted time, poor dyno results or higher costs for a tuner trying to figure it out / fix the signal issues.
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  #35  
Old 11-20-2012, 04:52 PM
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icingdeath88 icingdeath88 is offline
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Re: Were Should I Spend my EG33 Dollars to Kick Ass.

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Originally Posted by bazza View Post
I don't know how you guys can put 2-3K+ worth of parts in your engines, take months and even years to build it all up patiently, nicely with a lot of love and then run it with something so unreliable, troublesome and nasty. Don't you think it would be better to spend that coin on the ecu and run the stock internals or at least reduce internal work etc?

The ECU is the most important part in your car, my advice is to invest in it (doesn't have to be expensive, just run something known to work without drama) or you will pay the price via by wasted time, poor dyno results or higher costs for a tuner trying to figure it out / fix the signal issues.
Once setup properly, which does take a little experimenting for each new application, they run fine. Just takes a little figuring out. Right now, I can't do much work on the hardware of the car, since basically all my spare cash is tied up buying a house, so I have the time to iron the bugs out before I'll be ready to get back to the real work.

Basically, it's only such a pain in the ass the first time around, then it will be easy for the next guy to get his setup. I am just unlucky not to be that second guy. Mike too.

And then once figured out, we can be saving, what? almost a grand compared to a hydra? That's a solid amount of money that could go to parts or whatever.
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'94 Laguna Blue LSi ~159k.......JDM ultra short-geared 3.900 STi Version 7 6-speed w/ Cobb shortshifter, ECUtune 244,8.1mm/256,9.1mm i/e cams, group N motor mounts, '97 grille, JDM clear corners, Momo JDM Legacy GT steering wheel, apkarian's LED tails, silver STi BBS wheels, PWR radiator, redstuff pads f/r, drilled/slotted rotors, bontragerworks rsb #18, Koni/GC 450f/375r coilovers, Megan Racing adjustable lateral links, KMac c/c plates, Stebro exhaust, ECUtune 1v5, Optima battery in the trunk where it belongs. Turbo project

'97 Ebony LSi ~137k #036.......Power mode mod, JDM clear corners, BBS wheels. AUX/pocket mod

Now a mod "over there" ............Photo album

Last edited by icingdeath88; 11-20-2012 at 05:00 PM.
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  #36  
Old 11-20-2012, 05:32 PM
bazza bazza is offline
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Re: Were Should I Spend my EG33 Dollars to Kick Ass.

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Originally Posted by icingdeath88 View Post
Once setup properly, which does take a little experimenting for each new application, they run fine. Just takes a little figuring out. Right now, I can't do much work on the hardware of the car, since basically all my spare cash is tied up buying a house, so I have the time to iron the bugs out before I'll be ready to get back to the real work.

Basically, it's only such a pain in the ass the first time around, then it will be easy for the next guy to get his setup. I am just unlucky not to be that second guy. Mike too.

And then once figured out, we can be saving, what? almost a grand compared to a hydra? That's a solid amount of money that could go to parts or whatever.
I've actually tuned a mate's MS and it was the nastiest thing I've ever tuned lol, so I'd say the fun doesn't quite end after setting it up. Looking at their website they're anywhere from $550-650 then a lot of time an effort to get it working. Plus then who wants to risk a very expensive engine whilst setting up an ecu - I certainly wouldn't.

At that price there are other options - you can buy a 2nd hand Microtech on ebay for a 6 cylinder for $400 odd bucks. You can then send it to Microtech and have them set it up for the EG33 which costs about $150 and then a handset to tune it for $200. So you could be setup for $750 odd and the ecu is FAR superior to the MS. The microtech ecu actually holds the world record for the quickest EG33 / Subaru / WRX on the planet still to this day. Or you trawl the forums until you find a 2nd hand Linkplus G3 or Vipec come up for sale etc.

There are a lot of other better options, we just gotta be smart about it.
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  #37  
Old 11-20-2012, 05:41 PM
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Re: Were Should I Spend my EG33 Dollars to Kick Ass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icingdeath88 View Post
The VR conditioner that's used in yours I think is different than the one that's in the MS3. Do you know if there are a couple of adjustable "pots" on the board? So it may not be directly applicable, but I, and probably Mike if he searched the MS forums, was able to find the old posts by you and the guy who helped set it up initially, that cover what was done: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...p?f=94&t=24695

Matt, do you know where along the wire the resistor was added?

Also, a question. On the MS forums one of the fixes for sync loss is adding resistors, but sometimes they are added inline with the signal wire, and sometimes, they are added across the signal and ground wires. Or sometimes both. What does this accomplish and why would that be a remedy? Harvey? Or anyone?
The signal from these type of sensors is a low level AC sine wave. The voltage rises to peak then falls to zero, to cross to the opposite voltage. It is the zero crossing that they use to trigger the controller.
If the signal is reduced by a mismatch of the impedance, the voltage will be lower, and the zero crossing point will not be as sharp, and harder to detect.

The problems stem back to the Inductive pick-up that the engine has. These are an electrical generator, that produces a voltage wave form that depends on the circuit load, and the rate of change, rpm.
This allows the signal to be too much voltage, from the speed or a higher than normal impedance, or too low a voltage from too low a impedance. Also because they generate a such a low voltage, it is prone to interference from all the other electrical equipment. To be reliable they need the input circuitry to be matched to the inductor.

If the impedance is too low, fitting a resistor in series with the signal will prevent the voltage from being reduced. If the impedance or the voltage is too high, fitting resistor across the signal or the pot as a voltage divider, will reduce the level,

It would be better to replace the inductive unit with a Hall Effect unit. These produce a 5v square wave that is immune to interference, and does not change with speed or load. A shutter could be fitted behind the crank pulley.

Harvey.
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  #38  
Old 11-20-2012, 06:01 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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Re: Were Should I Spend my EG33 Dollars to Kick Ass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyBob View Post
Seems a bit too large. We went with 1.75" primaries and I was concerned they were too large. For most applications 1.625" is more than enough to support 250-300 whp. But given our final power and rpms the 1.75" worked out okay.

I can't imagine such short and large primary tubes unless you were making 550-600 whp and spinning up 10,000 rpms.

JMTCW...
I agree with Bob there. The larger dia will reduce the velocity, and the 25" chimes in at about 11500 rpm.

Harvey.
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Tell it like it is!

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97 Liberty GX Auto sedan. 320,000Kls.
04 Liberty 30R Auto Premium. 92.000kls.
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  #39  
Old 11-20-2012, 09:00 PM
subarvair subarvair is offline
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Re: Were Should I Spend my EG33 Dollars to Kick Ass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyBob View Post
Seems a bit too large. We went with 1.75" primaries and I was concerned they were too large. For most applications 1.625" is more than enough to support 250-300 whp. But given our final power and rpms the 1.75" worked out okay.

I can't imagine such short and large primary tubes unless you were making 550-600 whp and spinning up 10,000 rpms.

JMTCW...
Bob,
I agree. Went back and checked my notes. What was recommended to me was 1.75" into 2.5" with 25-26" long primaries. I think the builder talked me into 2" into 2.5 to better match the opening of the elbow exh after porting. Hope I don't regret that.
Thanks for the imput.
Mike
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  #40  
Old 11-23-2012, 09:27 PM
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Re: Were Should I Spend my EG33 Dollars to Kick Ass.

Very interested in the cam upgrade... if that means ecu and map and injectors I guess those too... I want a little more kick in the pants very nice thread I will be watching diligently thanks for all the hard work guys!
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