Intro

Just a FRIENDLY question, but what did you have done to your neon that made it fast enough to take most v6's on the road? You say you didn't do anything to your engine, fair enough. But I have a hard time swallowing it when I used to take neons in my first car, 94 Saturn SC2. Yep. I know my mustang can waste that so it should follow that if s > n and m > s, then m > n.

Don't worry, I will not get scared away from the forum. I need somewhere to talk about the car I know I will grow to love. I'll just have to start making a list of people to ignore. And some of you are right, you should not instantly jump down the throat of a new guy cause you never know what experience he has.

This did end up being a pretty big thread which is very encouraging cause it means the board is regularly read. Very glad to be here.

[vkykam]

And we're glad you're here.

VK

Originally posted by jwherm
This did end up being a pretty big thread which is very encouraging cause it means the board is regularly read. Very glad to be here.

Welcome to the board, sometimes known as the SVX Asylum.

Originally posted by jwherm
I'll just have to start making a list of people to ignore.

... he's making a list, checking it twice, gonna find out who's naughty or nice .... hmm... 'tis almost the season.

I've thought of getting a Taurus SHO and/or a Mustang, but one thing that keeps me from buying a Ford Product isn't the quality, but the fact that with the Pinto, Ford Motor Company knowingly and deliberately let a certain number of their own, loyal and trusting customers burn because they thought they'd pay less in lawsuits than if they'd done a total recall. Somehow I can't accept that, and what with the tire-Explorer thing, it would be hard to believe things have improved.

Even so, the SHO and Mustang are nice cars.

[jscorse]

I know I've said it before, but WELCOME jwherm!

You sound like another wonderful addition to this wonderful and VERY active club.

Stick around we'll grow on ya.

I know many of us risk our jobs spending time here.....

[Aredubjay]

Originally posted by jscorse
Stick around we'll grow on ya.


Like a fungus.

I know many of us risk our jobs spending time here.....

I'm on here when I should be sleeping,
I'm on here when I should be working,
I'm on here when I should be attending to family and personal matters.

I need to find another hobby.

[SHISVX]

You'll have to excuse Ford Girl, it's my fault that i haven't been doing my job at keeping her at bay. As Chevy Boy, it's my duty, you know.



OK Chevy boy...i just have one comment for you

REAL MEN DON'T WEAR BOWTIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW welcome to the network again....it is amazing how cars can bring ppl together...

hey Kev, how is Mandi doing?

Kelli

FORD RULES!!!!

[Seraph]

Originally posted by SHISVX
FORD RULES!!!!

Bah!
yyssw

Originally posted by Shadow248
I would love to see Ca$h's Neon...this thing must be a marvel, considering the list of car's it's beaten.

It's nothing special at all. Its a BASE model 1997 Dodge Neon Coupe with the SOHC engine and a 5 spd. The coupe is a tad lighter than the 4 door, and mine is the most MUNDANE base model I have ever personally seen. I've been to three neon conventions and I've never seen one with as FEW options as mine. This thing lacks power windows, power locks, ABS, cruise control, rubber bumpers on the doors, air conditioning, the jack for the spare, REAR WINDOW DEFROST, foglights; literally the ONLY option that came on this car was the tape deck. That being said, this car weighs UNDER 2400lbs. With 132hp and 130ft/lbs of torque, it isn't a slouch, especially since I upgraded the muffler to a factory style DOHC muffler (less backpressure) which supposedly gives me 8hp. So 140hp/2400lbs=.58 hp/lb. This is much better than a V6 mustang, and before the Mustang GTs got their engine HP bumped up due to the newer engine, I could take those out as well. A 3000GT? Lets see. 170hp weighing how much?! Horrible slow car. I'm not lying about any of this; it just goes to show you that some cars that are considered to be 'fast' are really really really pathetic (mustang GTs, Acura integras, Civic Sis, 3000GTs).

In a streetlight race, the neon MIGHT be able to take on the SVX til about 60mph.. maybe. Not sure.

- Ca$h

Originally posted by jwherm
Just a FRIENDLY question, but what did you have done to your neon that made it fast enough to take most v6's on the road? You say you didn't do anything to your engine, fair enough. But I have a hard time swallowing it when I used to take neons in my first car, 94 Saturn SC2. Yep. .

Pretty much nothing. A dohc muffler, Rex Front motor mounts, mobil 1 synthetic, and changed the plugs regularly. What gives my neon its edge is the fact that it didn't weigh a thing (base). And I DOUBT you were racing 5spd neons. Considering saturns come with a wheezing outdated 100hp 2 valve/cylinder engine, it'd be highly unlikely to get a neon with one. The only saturn that I know is remotely quicker is the one with the 150hp engine, but that seems to only be kinda quick if its modified. A saturn beat my neon once, I pulled into a parking lot with him and shot the s**t. Turns out he had a lightened flywheel, cams, intake, new exhaust system, and some other stuff. >shrug< Props to him, I didn't see it coming, most saturns are complete slugs.

- Ca$h

[Shadow248]

The only possibilty i can see that would make your story true is the driver factor. Your power-to-weight ratio approach has one large hole...you have forgotten to factor in torque. This can make a very large difference and is what makes the SVX such a killer at high speeds. The Saturn's "outdated" engine design has not been changed because, frankly, it doesn't need to be. Those engines have alot more torque down low than the neon, and that makes a big difference in getting even the relatively minute weight of the car moving. So while i certainly believe that you beat these cars...i think in some cases it has alot more to do with driving skill than your blessed neon.

To better illustrate...about a month ago, i "raced" a 2000 vette from a traffic light to a lane merge...i won. Now we all know that a 1996 Grand Prix GTP is NOT EVEN CLOSE to a Vette in terms of power... so it's quite obvious that i didn't win because of the car. The reason? A 6-speed Vette with an Automatic driver. I could have written a short essay in the time it took this dude to get the clutch out! On the flipside, i have a good friend who drives a 1998 Saturn SL2. He has been driving stick since he learned to drive. Needless to say, he is quite good. The list of cars he has beaten with his "outdated" saturn is quite long too...but he knows better than to think his car is some miracle.

And another thing...i am sick and tired of Ford and Chrysler dogging GM for their "outdated" engines. Show me a Ford or Chrysler engine that can beat a GM engine, pound-for-pound. GM's engines are low maintenance, reliable and damn powerful. Now they just need to get the electrical game down. But that's improving.

You're wrong there man. The neon's power band and torque curve is pretty much top of its class. Neons DOMINATE autocrossing because their engine are kinda torquey. In drag racing, it's the same story. The SOHC 2.0 in the neon has even more lower end torque than the DOHC 2.0, so to about 50-60 the SOHC is actually faster than the DOHC. Now you say that my 'outdated GM engine' claim isn't backed up? Allow me to do so.

Neon 2.0 liter powerplant
4 valves per cylinder
132hp (SOHC) 150 hp (DOHC)
130ft/lbs torque (SOHC)
Thermoplastic intake
Extremely durable (Somewhere on the net there's a rental neon that took a 150 shot and lived, but limped home)

Saturn engine 2.0? Forget the displacement
2 valves per cylinder
100hp, 100 ft lbs of torque.

Pathetic.

What makes the neon faster than its competitors is the area under the curve; its powerband is very broad. Honda engines would be the polar opposite- Power only in a very narrow RPM band. When racing, this gives the neon an edge, because it allows it to beat cars with higher PEAK horsepower. See, lets say I'm lined up against a car that has a higher peak hp, higher peak torque, and a better power to weight ratio. All things considered, that guy isnt necessarily GOING to win. Why? At times, the neon's engine may be putting out MORE power than the higher peaked power engine. It may be putting out more torque than the higher peak torqued engine.

Anyway, all things considered I don't see any drag saturns, I don't see saturns doing well in autocrossing, and I didn't see them completely destroy the competition in the compact factory stock road racing in the SCCA like the neons did.

I will, however, give props to GM's NEW ecotec engine.

- Ca$h

I remember getting a warning to never try to race one of the "sportier" saturns. I think it's the one with the 150hp motor. The thing is that they're ridiculiously light, so their hp/weight ratio is much more favorable.

Also, I remember reading somewhere that someone turbocharged a Saturn for One Lap of America and did very well. Apparently factory turbocharging is something that seems pretty likely in Saturn's future. Rock.

-Adam

[dromano]

redo the math, think you need a zero between the 5 and the decimal point.

Originally posted by $VX


It's nothing special at all. Its a BASE model 1997 Dodge Neon Coupe with the SOHC engine and a 5 spd. The coupe is a tad lighter than the 4 door, and mine is the most MUNDANE base model I have ever personally seen. I've been to three neon conventions and I've never seen one with as FEW options as mine. This thing lacks power windows, power locks, ABS, cruise control, rubber bumpers on the doors, air conditioning, the jack for the spare, REAR WINDOW DEFROST, foglights; literally the ONLY option that came on this car was the tape deck. That being said, this car weighs UNDER 2400lbs. With 132hp and 130ft/lbs of torque, it isn't a slouch, especially since I upgraded the muffler to a factory style DOHC muffler (less backpressure) which supposedly gives me 8hp. So 140hp/2400lbs=.58 hp/lb. This is much better than a V6 mustang, and before the Mustang GTs got their engine HP bumped up due to the newer engine, I could take those out as well. A 3000GT? Lets see. 170hp weighing how much?! Horrible slow car. I'm not lying about any of this; it just goes to show you that some cars that are considered to be 'fast' are really really really pathetic (mustang GTs, Acura integras, Civic Sis, 3000GTs).

In a streetlight race, the neon MIGHT be able to take on the SVX til about 60mph.. maybe. Not sure.

- Ca$h

I know I'm getting older when a 2.0 motor are refered to as a "Powerplant". I think more of Hemi's, Windsor's, Shelby's etc. or anything over 400 CID as Powerplants".

I previously had a '95 Sebring Coupe. It had the 2.0 w/ 5 Speed (The only way to have one) nearly the same motor as the Neon. I thought of it more akin to a Toro lawn mower motor than a Powerplant.


It's amazing to me how the standards have changed. Wow...


Randy ii