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  #46  
Old 02-22-2012, 11:22 AM
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icingdeath88 icingdeath88 is offline
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Re: Remote Mount Turbo

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Originally Posted by Subaru Alliance View Post
As for the MAF I am thinking of running a bigger gauge wire say a 14 or something and running the wires back to the turbo, but I was also thinking of running the MAF close to the throttle body, (need your guys help here) but for that to work it would have compressed air moving through it and I am not sure how that would work out.
It will work fine as long as the air is cool. (I'm guessing you know how a MAF works, but for everyone else's sake) A MAF meter works by heating a wire to a particular temperature and then measuring the voltage required to maintain that temperature with the air moving past it and trying to cool it. The more air, the more voltage required to maintain the wire at that temperature. If the air is warm, then it doesn't work very well, since warm air won't cool that wire very well. In a stock turbo subaru setup, the MAF is pre-turbo, and the use of a bypass valve instead of a blow off valve, keeps the airflow measured by the MAF proportional to the air that actually enters the throttle body. Since in this remote-mount setup, a BPV would mean running another pipe all the way back to before the turbo (but after the MAF). That's a lot of plumbing, so you'll need a BOV.

But for that to work, you'll also need some kind of intercooling, which probably would be a good idea anyway. I bet an air-to-water setup would be a really great idea with this setup. Just stick one of these guys along the pipe carrying the pressurized air from the turbo to the front, and stick the heat exchanger up by the radiator somewhere. Would work beautifully.

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Originally Posted by Subaru Alliance View Post
I know the gt35 is a beast, but I am going for more of a CFM build instead of a high boost build at this point, once I get some boost friendly pistons then I can start going higher boost, but that will be a long time down the road, as for now it's really more of an experiment at this point, (I like to think of it as an EDUCATED EXPERIMENT ;D) but it's gonna be some trial and error for a little while.
You're going in the opposite order from me. I'm building the engine first and then turboing it after.

Tapani (since I know you'll check this eventually), where is your MAF at and do you have a blow-off valve? I forget.
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'94 Laguna Blue LSi ~159k.......JDM ultra short-geared 3.900 STi Version 7 6-speed w/ Cobb shortshifter, ECUtune 244,8.1mm/256,9.1mm i/e cams, group N motor mounts, '97 grille, JDM clear corners, Momo JDM Legacy GT steering wheel, apkarian's LED tails, silver STi BBS wheels, PWR radiator, redstuff pads f/r, drilled/slotted rotors, bontragerworks rsb #18, Koni/GC 450f/375r coilovers, Megan Racing adjustable lateral links, KMac c/c plates, Stebro exhaust, ECUtune 1v5, Optima battery in the trunk where it belongs. Turbo project

'97 Ebony LSi ~137k #036.......Power mode mod, JDM clear corners, BBS wheels. AUX/pocket mod

Now a mod "over there" ............Photo album
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  #47  
Old 02-22-2012, 01:55 PM
STeeL25T STeeL25T is offline
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Re: Remote Mount Turbo

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Originally Posted by Subaru Alliance View Post
LOL thanks icingdeath, I hope to have some competition soon. not for competition's sake, but for the svx sake. (to many people have either forgotten about SVX's or have never known about them) at least here where I am at.
QFT. I hate it that our cars are more often than not used a 'shipping container' for our engines, that get taken out and put in everything from Imprezas to Volkswagens to sand rails to airplanes.. but there really isn't anyone that has an honest to goodness "fast" SVX.

I aim to change this Glad to have some one else on the force.
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  #48  
Old 02-22-2012, 06:18 PM
Subaru Alliance Subaru Alliance is offline
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Re: Remote Mount Turbo

well said steel25t and icing death.

@icingdeath and @steel25t your build will definitely be much more reliable than mine as far as making BIG power. I like the way you went with your project which focused on building the engine first.

My project on the other hand is aimed at turboing the engine first (due to budget, I knew I could turbo it cheaper than internals). I do plan on getting the whole works, cams, pistons, rods, etc. but for now it is unrealistic as far as my budget goes. But for now I feel I will be fine on stock internals with like I said 8psi, but if need be I can go less boost. Also as far as I know the limits of a stock EG33 haven't been tested. maybe I will have great luck running maybe up to 10psi on factory internals, I don't know. My only real concern at this point is not rods pistons bearings etc., It's actually cylinder pressures. I wish there were some sort of equation I could use to somehow calculate this into something I can easily relate too, for example 10:1 compression ratio add 3PSi boost equals 10.4:1 CR 6 psi of boost equals 10.8:1 CR and my setup at 8psi equals 11.3:1 CR. those numbers are just an example, but that is where I feel the weak point is for my build, not rods or pistons, but cylinder pressures that enjoy popping head gaskets every 3 days. (hopefully not)

Also just an example I was digging around on the nasioc forums and found a post talking about the 1991-94 EJ22T being able to take 26psi on factory internals, and according to the post the guy has scattered a few of those engines and came to the conclusion through his own experience that 26psi is the highest safe amount of boost, he said 27psi is where eventually rods would fail taking some time to bend and break.

that is just a reference and as I said earlier to my knowledge no one has tested the limits of a stock EG33. Not that I plan on doing it with my daily driver, but who knows, maybe after all this I can say there are no issues running a stock EG @8psi. worst case scenario i scatter this engine, I do have a spare but that would take away from another project of swapping EG33 into the Baja. shhh! thats another thread.

Also as far as the MAF goes I do know how they work but haven't ever thought of running it upstream of the turbo, just didn't want so much air moving over it that it can't take accurate readings. I guess it would be the same amount of air regardless because if your making boost then your drawing a higher flow of air through the MAF anyways. I think that will be the simpler way to go, relocate my MAF from the stock air box to just behind the throttle body.

Also as for the BOV, to be completely honestI will only hit that thing purposely probably the first time everything is done to verify it works, and I don't think in my normal driving I will ever hit it, and if for reason I did, It would literally be some sort of emergency situation like accelerating onto the free way just to make the corner and see traffic stopped. Other than that, I roll onto the throttle and roll off of it as the situation allows, i never get on it and then jump off the throttle, situation dictates of course, but it's not in my driving habits to do so.
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Last edited by Subaru Alliance; 02-22-2012 at 06:24 PM.
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  #49  
Old 02-22-2012, 06:30 PM
1986nate 1986nate is offline
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Re: Remote Mount Turbo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subaru Alliance View Post
well said steel25t and icing death.

@icingdeath and @steel25t your build will definitely be much more reliable than mine as far as making BIG power. I like the way you went with your project which focused on building the engine first.

My project on the other hand is aimed at turboing the engine first (due to budget, I knew I could turbo it cheaper than internals). I do plan on getting the whole works, cams, pistons, rods, etc. but for now it is unrealistic as far as my budget goes. But for now I feel I will be fine on stock internals with like I said 8psi, but if need be I can go less boost. Also as far as I know the limits of a stock EG33 haven't been tested. maybe I will have great luck running maybe up to 10psi on factory internals, I don't know. My only real concern at this point is not rods pistons bearings etc., It's actually cylinder pressures. I wish there were some sort of equation I could use to somehow calculate this into something I can easily relate too, for example 10:1 compression ratio add 3PSi boost equals 10.4:1 CR 6 psi of boost equals 10.8:1 CR and my setup at 8psi equals 11.3:1 CR. those numbers are just an example, but that is where I feel the weak point is for my build, not rods or pistons, but cylinder pressures that enjoy popping head gaskets every 3 days. (hopefully not)

Also just an example I was digging around on the nasioc forums and found a post talking about the 1991-94 EJ22T being able to take 26psi on factory internals, and according to the post the guy has scattered a few of those engines and came to the conclusion through his own experience that 26psi is the highest safe amount of boost, he said 27psi is where eventually rods would fail taking some time to bend and break.

that is just a reference and as I said earlier to my knowledge no one has tested the limits of a stock EG33. Not that I plan on doing it with my daily driver, but who knows, maybe after all this I can say there are no issues running a stock EG @8psi. worst case scenario i scatter this engine, I do have a spare but that would take away from another project of swapping EG33 into the Baja. shhh! thats another thread.
Ummm, do some reading. The limits of the EG33 have clearly been tested. Why don't you take a look at how many engines YT blew up.
EJ22t, is a completely different animal. Completely forged internals, closed deck, and low compression. The EG33 is open deck, high compression and the pistons are not forged, which is why ring lands are the first thing to fail.

Also, Phil's old car has been running 9psi on 93 oct and 15psi on e85 for a few years now. There is a lot more info around than you have found. (have you even searched?)

Last edited by 1986nate; 02-22-2012 at 06:33 PM.
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  #50  
Old 02-22-2012, 07:06 PM
Subaru Alliance Subaru Alliance is offline
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Re: Remote Mount Turbo

Ummm, do some reading. The limits of the EG33 have clearly been tested. Why don't you take a look at how many engines YT blew up.
EJ22t, is a completely different animal. Completely forged internals, closed deck, and low compression. The EG33 is open deck, high compression and the pistons are not forged, which is why ring lands are the first thing to fail.

Also, Phil's old car has been running 9psi on 93 oct and 15psi on e85 for a few years now. There is a lot more info around than you have found. (have you even searched?)

I have used the high speed search function on several occasions, usually there are to many results to get the info. like searching for turbo yields so many results you can't find what you want.
I know the EJ22T is a different animal I was merely using it as an example.
I didn't realize Phil's old car was running 9psi on 93 octane so thanks for that information, it puts my mind at ease a little bit.
I also just searched for "ring lands" and found an informative thread so I may have been using too broad of search terms and getting spammed with results.
I am not trying to take anything away from any of the members here.
In any case Thanks 1986nate
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Last edited by Subaru Alliance; 02-22-2012 at 07:36 PM.
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  #51  
Old 02-22-2012, 09:15 PM
Tapani Tapani is offline
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Re: Remote Mount Turbo



My MAF is in the stock location, I even run the stock airbox. No ill effects.... idles just fine.

I have a Forge by pass valve. Also, the engine breather system is stock. The PCV valve is plumbed to the pressure box and the cam cover breathers to the compressor intake. Check the photos in my first post in this thread.

Works really well at least at 5PSI. The engine vacuum is sufficient for the brake booster and all other stuff work too.

I haven't tried the cruise at speeds where the engine runs at boost conditions all the time, tho .

Good luck, Alliance !

Tapani


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Originally Posted by icingdeath88 View Post
Tapani (since I know you'll check this eventually), where is your MAF at and do you have a blow-off valve? I forget.
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  #52  
Old 02-23-2012, 09:27 AM
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icingdeath88 icingdeath88 is offline
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Re: Remote Mount Turbo

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Originally Posted by Subaru Alliance View Post
Also just an example I was digging around on the nasioc forums and found a post talking about the 1991-94 EJ22T being able to take 26psi on factory internals, and according to the post the guy has scattered a few of those engines and came to the conclusion through his own experience that 26psi is the highest safe amount of boost, he said 27psi is where eventually rods would fail taking some time to bend and break.
Absolutely, completely, 100% different animals, not comparable at all. The EJ22 is somewhat comparable to our engines, the EJ22t is not. For all the reasons Nate listed. 8-9psi on the stock internals is your limit, intercooled. Less if not intercooled, more if intercooled and tuned well on a hydra.

Tapani is at 5 psi, non-intercooled, with a pretty small turbo, and running the stage 2 stuff as well. Tom's supercharged car was at 9 with a hydra. Phil is at 9, intercooled, on the stage 2 stuff. Sicksubie's supercharged car I think is running a lot more, but on a fully built engine and a hydra.

You'll also find that you're limited by the 370cc injectors to around 380hp, unless you increase the fuel pressure (you already have a bigger fuel pump, right?). It only takes 10-11 psi to get 380 hp worth of air. If you try to do more than 9 psi of boost, you'll need bigger injectors, which means either a hydra or asking LAN to make you a ROM for 550cc injectors, which I'm sure he can do. The N62 (=Z32) MAF is good for 450-500 HP, I forget. It won't be the bottleneck at the boost levels we're talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subaru Alliance View Post
... searching for turbo yields so many results you can't find what you want.
This is very true. I have actually gone through all the old posts I could find about turbo/supercharging these, it took a long time to find those useful little nuggets of information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapani View Post
My MAF is in the stock location, I even run the stock airbox. No ill effects.... idles just fine.

I have a Forge by pass valve. Also, the engine breather system is stock. The PCV valve is plumbed to the pressure box and the cam cover breathers to the compressor intake. Check the photos in my first post in this thread.

Works really well at least at 5PSI. The engine vacuum is sufficient for the brake booster and all other stuff work too.
So your MAF sees the airflow before it enters the turbo, and then the BPV cycles it back to between the turbo and MAF? That is a very good setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapani View Post
I haven't tried the cruise at speeds where the engine runs at boost conditions all the time, tho .
The cruise control vacuum is supplied by a vacuum pump hidden under the fuse box, not the actual engine vacuum. So you should have no problems with cruise control at any boost level.
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'97 Ebony LSi ~137k #036.......Power mode mod, JDM clear corners, BBS wheels. AUX/pocket mod

Now a mod "over there" ............Photo album
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  #53  
Old 02-23-2012, 02:22 PM
1986nate 1986nate is offline
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Re: Remote Mount Turbo

sicksubie-supercharged, no cooling, built low compression completely forged internals, hydra, 14psi (it's limited because of the pulley setup)

YT-9psi non cooled supercharged, no problems
12psi non cooled, bye bye ring lands
above was all using the ecutune software, stock engines with typically near 200k miles
12psi, meth injection, custom-one off intake manifold, hydra, near 200k mile stock block, seemingly no issues but wasn't run all too much before selling it to Rob who went back to the 9psi pulley and removed meth injection as it is illegal in autocross. I can't remember if he went to water injection though.

Phil-9psi 93 octane tune using ecutune stage 2, blowthrough maf, BIG front mount intercooler, stock, low mileage engine, also utilizing an AFPR

I believe these 3 are the most "extreme" setups that the info is truly "out there" for.

Last edited by 1986nate; 02-23-2012 at 02:36 PM.
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  #54  
Old 02-23-2012, 02:25 PM
1986nate 1986nate is offline
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Re: Remote Mount Turbo

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Originally Posted by icingdeath88 View Post
This is very true. I have actually gone through all the old posts I could find about turbo/supercharging these, it took a long time to find those useful little nuggets of information.
^This....
So many people want a quick answer and don't want to read through all the information readily available.

I have read through them all as well
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  #55  
Old 02-23-2012, 02:28 PM
STeeL25T STeeL25T is offline
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Re: Remote Mount Turbo

I got a forged low compression block, stock heads and stock WRX trans... If it works, I'll let you know what it does with a turbocharger and water to air intercooler in 3 or 4 months.
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  #56  
Old 02-23-2012, 05:00 PM
Subaru Alliance Subaru Alliance is offline
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Re: Remote Mount Turbo

good stuff guys I appreciate all the info. As far as the EJ22T LOL I didn't mean it as a comparison between that engine and the SVX, I was just using it as a reference to how well documented it's limitations were on factory internals. These last couple three or four posts have pretty much showed the limitations of the EG33 and I am truly thankful for that. Like I said I don't want to be testing the limits on my daily driver and it puts my mind at ease to know that there has been success with factory internals @9psi. Since I will be running 8psi for the time being.

As an update for the build I installed the cross drilled rotors F/R and ceramic pads F/R. I also got the ecutune stage 2 in the mail today. My wife wants to go to a birthday party on saturday so I am gonna try to get the engine swap completed tomorrow, not sure how close I will get since I am working it alone with a doctors appt at 11 so that will soak up a few hours of time that could otherwise be devoted to the swap. more to come in a couple hours.
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  #57  
Old 02-23-2012, 05:55 PM
Subaru Alliance Subaru Alliance is offline
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Re: Remote Mount Turbo

Ok I just got done eating dinner but I am back now. as I said I am gonna start on the engine swap a little bit tonight, maybe get coolant draining, and start yanking out the radiator. I would like to have it done by tomorrow at dinner time.

another update on the build, I was poking around and there seemed to be a droplet of oil on the output side of the turbo, may have been some residue from pulling the supply line while the pump was running to check for flow, but just to be safe I have put an oil fitting with restrictor in my shopping cart online to reduce oil flow, and up the pressure on the bearing. My neighbor guy was saying if oil leaks past the seals then you need to get one of the fitting with the restrictor in it, and then go bigger or smaller restriction based on results, so I got that coming as a just in case. apparently if it leaks past the seals then you need to reduce the pressure, but in my case there isn't much pressure maybe 5psi but it's high volume, maybe it's supplying the oil faster than it can drain, it is just a gravity drain. We will see. now that I have seen it, I will keep a close eye on it. also I checked the oil level in my reservoir and it is still full, so at this point I am not super worried, but I will monitor it closely. I haven't been driving much lately, jacked up my left eye over the weekend, minor incident, no permanent damage so you can relax LOL. Anyways will update tomorrow hopefully with the engine swapped.
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  #58  
Old 02-23-2012, 09:29 PM
Subaru Alliance Subaru Alliance is offline
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Re: Remote Mount Turbo

I didn't make as good a progress as I wanted to, but got the MAF swapped, exhaust loose, coolant drained and the radiator and fans are out of the way. I will start again tomorrow morning, but I have an appointment, so after that I will hit it hard and hopefully get the new engine dropped in and hooked up. Once that is done I have a few more small things to do before I plumb the turbo into the intake, cut a hole in my exhaust and mount the waste gate, plumb the liquid cooling side of the turbo, then I can run it to the intake. I also need to install my oil and water temp gauges and boost gauge, and swap out my o2 sensors. we'll see how much I can get done this weekend. I will shoot for driving the car by sunday morning.
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Last edited by Subaru Alliance; 02-23-2012 at 09:32 PM.
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  #59  
Old 02-24-2012, 04:01 PM
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Re: Remote Mount Turbo

just updating to say THE ENGINE I SSTILL IN THE CAR. how cool is that? I tell ya how cool that is, I was working on it making some good headway, and then luckily georgia decided that today was MONSOON day. so now there is pond in my driveway.

Anyways I have about 10 mins of work on the bottom, 2x motor mounts, 2x trans stud nuts, and 1 o2 sensor wire to unplug.
On top the engine I have the starter wires, trans bolts, torque converter bolts, 1 heater hose and I believe that's it, then jack up the trans, lift the engine out.

On my re built (stock with new engine gasket set) engine it chunked the keyway on the crank snout and damaged the crank pulley. I welded and sanded it into a permanent keyway, the (original to the engine) timing belt drive pulley (the one behind the crank pulley that drives the t-belt) also broke so I swapped the (original to the car) one onto the rebuilt engine, as well as the alternator. new timing belt and accessory belts. If that stuff had already been done the engine would undoubtedly be outside the car right now, but none the less, if the weather cooperates with me tomorrow the swap should be done tomorrow evening.
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  #60  
Old 02-25-2012, 07:20 PM
Subaru Alliance Subaru Alliance is offline
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Re: Remote Mount Turbo

Another update on the update. Got the engine out, engine bay degreased, as well as both engine degreased. I had to swap a handful of little things over, a few bolts for the coil on plugs, a few hoses, clamps etc. etc. Hopefully i will complete the swap tomorrow by say dinner time, and then add fluids and fire it up. I didn't make any progress plumbing the turbo piping or anything yet, that will be the last thing to do. Once the swap is buttoned up, then I still need to cut a hole in my exhaust to mount the external waste gate, then I can start the plumbing.
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