Whats the big difference between 4.11 vs 4.44 vs stock

[Stock_Svx_owner]

So ive heard a million people have dumped in some 4.44 and 4.11 and I was wondering what the big deal is and how it effect driving. Can you put them in w/o doing any other mods to the drivetrain? (such as driveline, traany, torq conv....) Just was wondering.

[huck369]

The gears are inside the rear diff, and inside the front diff...the front diff is inside or mated too the transmission, so the transmission has to come out, as does the rear diff to change gear...
Most people do the gear swap when they replace the whole transmission with one with the lower gears, then they swap in the correct ring and pinion gear into the rear diff to match the tranny/front diff they install....

clear as mud

[davew833]

Some people just consider it an added benefit of installing a more reliable later-model auto tranny, say from a '97 Outback or Forester with the 4.11/4.44 gearing (can't remember which has which right now.)

[Stock_Svx_owner]

So when you do the swap (gears) how much does it effect your rpm's at freeway speeds? I know that lower gears mean faster exceleration but you lose top speed and it raises your crusing RPMs

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by Stock_Svx_owner

So when you do the swap (gears) how much does it effect your rpm's at freeway speeds? I know that lower gears mean faster exceleration but you lose top speed and it raises your crusing RPMs

Have a look at the Excel chart HERE it will give you a good idea of road speeds on the 4.11 and 4.44 gearsets.

Now unfortunately this chart was devised in order to pick the optimum gears for my supercharged car, and the "stock" gears over here are 3.70. Your US cars are taller at 3.53.

I'll probably update the spreadsheet and put in the numbers for 3.53 just to make it complete.

The deductions down the bottom come to the conclusion that the 4.111 is the optimum ratio, and in truth it probably is. However I'm going to go with the 4.444 ratio anyway, I like acceleration, I think it's good for people.

Joe

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by svxistentialist

The deductions down the bottom come to the conclusion that the 4.111 is the optimum ratio, and in truth it probably is. However I'm going to go with the 4.444 ratio anyway, I like acceleration, I think it's good for people.

Joe

One word of CAUTION!

Tom Krynock [svxfiles] says that 4.111 swops generally break down, while the 4.444s never do.

I believe Tom, if he says that is so, then that's something to take account of. It is probably because the cars that the 4.11 set are taken from are low powered and are fitted with cheaper and poorer clutch sets. The 4.44 gears tend to be installed in Turbo cars or workhorses, so clutches are beefier.

Go for the 4.44, and if your gearbox guy knows what he is doing, get him to install a taller 4 range in it for easy cruising. Best of both worlds, hard acceleration and quiet and economical cruising. There will be a power gap between 3 and 4, but there are no free lunches.

EDIT: I don't think a taller fourth range overdrive actually exists, so scratch the last remark. Joe.

Joe

[Stock_Svx_owner]

So what is a good tranny to go with the 4.44? Im thinking in a short while to change my drivtrain, tranny and gears. i hear alot of people use the 4.44 for a ton of aplications including off roar vehicles. I want to put in a 5 speed before long and would probly dump in the different gears (originaly thinking 4.44). I would probly just pay someone a flat rate to do it for me, drop my car off at their shop a day before I go on the road (im a truck driver) and pick it up a few weeks later when I got back into town. Just wondering but anyone have any ideas of what it would cost to do the swap and gears?

[rallyingrob]

my 4.44 is from a 98 legacy gt (IIRC...?)

it gets the CRAP beat out of it regularly with ZERO problems...acceleration is brisk....the stock gearing feels downright lethargic in comparison...

fuel economy for me has suffered not at all...cruise rpms are a bit higher, but normal driving means you get up into top gear sooner... and now the car has enuff torque to pull it from lower speeds...

reliability has been a non-issue...NOTHING has gone wrong since the install...

i cant comment on costs to install...i got my parts cheap in perfect condition

and a friend installed for peanuts...
total outlay for me was 600$...and he installed an auxiliary cooler for me too...

i had a temp gauge installed temporarily, but it NEVER got hot....so i removed the bodged up gauge and havent looked back....

rob"your mileage may vary"m.

[gbianchi]

so yet another tranny swap question, does the tranny, be it 444, 411 or other have to come from an US spec vehicle, the low milage engines and trannys imported and sold here, will they work with the US tcu???just wondering before I buy one! Thanks........G

[huck369]

Originally Posted by gbianchi

so yet another tranny swap question, does the tranny, be it 444, 411 or other have to come from an US spec vehicle, the low milage engines and trannys imported and sold here, will they work with the US tcu???just wondering before I buy one! Thanks........G

I've used a 4.44 out of a JDM Early Turbo Legacy (94 I think) before, and it was a plug and play deal....

[longassname]

If your transmission isn't blown I'd suggest getting one of my TCU's and sending me your valve body to upgrade. Changing the shift maps (via getting a performance transmisison control unit) makes the car much faster around town without changing the gearing. It will downshift from 2nd to 1st with less throttle input and hold gears longer. You'll find the difference is so night and day you will be using much less gas around town--both pedal wise and at the pump. You actually get better city fuel economy because you aren't flooring it all the time just to get it to go. Typical improvement is 2-3 mpg. Highway fuel economy is not effected.

The valve body upgrade will make your transmission shift much faster and help prevent your high clutch, brake band, reverse clutch, and rear support thrust bearing from going bad. It should be upgraded no matter which transmission you use.

Originally Posted by Stock_Svx_owner

So what is a good tranny to go with the 4.44? Im thinking in a short while to change my drivtrain, tranny and gears. i hear alot of people use the 4.44 for a ton of aplications including off roar vehicles. I want to put in a 5 speed before long and would probly dump in the different gears (originaly thinking 4.44). I would probly just pay someone a flat rate to do it for me, drop my car off at their shop a day before I go on the road (im a truck driver) and pick it up a few weeks later when I got back into town. Just wondering but anyone have any ideas of what it would cost to do the swap and gears?