Twin Turbo EG33 Build - cozykat

[evilsvx]

any updates? since my headgasket im planning to rebuild the whole engine and install a tt setup on my svx too. i heard that stock engine can hold up to 400 to 500 hp. is that true or just bs? my plan is to get from 430 to 450 hp to the engine.

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by cozykat

This a thread where I can try to document my build with information, images (stored on photobucket), and cost.

The plan: rebuild eg33 - lowering compression to 9:1 and going with forged internals, run standalone ecu (hydra), add twin turbos (something like two T2560), and update exhaust.

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Initially, I was rebuilding my engine because I thought the engine was experiencing rod bearing failure. Once we started taking my engine apart, Shaun noticed that my flex plate had a thin V-shaped crack in the center (noticeable when directly pushing on it). So we think this is most likely the reason for the horrible noise @ 4000rpm instead of bearing failure.

4 reasons I decided to continue with the rebuild:
1. my engine was already out on a stand
2. we weren't 100% sure that the flex plate was problem or just a coincidence and I didn't want to swap engines again only to immediately need to swap for a 3rd time.
3. Shaun's '92, 90k engine runs significantly better than my '93 150k engine in my car which told me my car could run better even with a simple rebuild.
4. the excitement of the rebuild had already got a hold of me.


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Engine Rebuild Projected Costs (your prices may vary):
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Swapping engines (~$230 - Fluids, Gaskets, hoses, clamps)
Subaru Gasket Kit ($250.00)
Eagle-H Rods ($465.00)
Stock Crank - Polish/Balance (~$TBA)
Crankshaft ACL Bearings ($200.00)
CP 9:1 Forged Pistons w/ pins and rings ($948.00 / $1896 for Shaun and I together)
ARP Studs (long/short) ($320.00)
Outlaw Phenolic Spacers ($115.00)
GrimSpeed Ported Exhaust ($280.00)
Cometic Head Gasket Set ($190.00)
Hydra + wideband (optional) (~$TBA)
STI injector set (550cc) ($360)
Stock EG33 Block - Bore to 98mm (~$TBA)
Heads - Flow bench/Machining (~$TBA)
Intake/Exhaust Valves (~$TBA) / Valve Seats (~$TBA)
Springs (~$350)
Cams (~$600)
Walbro Fuel Pump 255lph ($80)
Custom Exhaust (~$TBA)


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Current Status:
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2009.01.17.SA/SU: So far, Shaun (YourConfused), Matt and I have removed my engine and swapped in Shaun's spare from his 92 (so I can still drive my SVX while her heart is being worked on).
Swap cost: ~$230 to replace fluids, hoses that broke due to age, etc.

2009.03.14.SA: We've have torn the engine down and are waiting for a slot to open up at the machine shop (3 week waiting period).
Cost: blood, sweat, and cursing

Pretty much just ordering parts listed above and watching my pennies.


more to follow...

Originally Posted by longassname

All sounds very good to me, right down to your turbo choice. You're going a similar route to me. I'm doing the same thing except with m24 garrett turbos and my own engine management with an svx maf stuck on the inlet of each turbo and an hks or hks knock off foam filter on each maf. Water injection, no intercooler.

Melissa

Your priced menu does not seem to include any figures or items for charge cooling. Yet you are talking to Tom about water flanges. Does this mean you are planning to use a water or water/alcohol injection system? Without some cooling system, the whole thing will not work. Merely reducing the CR to 9:1 will not be sufficient to avoid the sort of problems Tom got with the Stage 111 install with detonation and timing getting hauled back. I flagged this problem way, way back in 05/06 and so it proved to pass.

Also I'm inclined to agree with Michael, you would be better going for 8.5:1 or lower. This build is now a different engine than the NA motor, so you should be optimising for forced induction. Remember that you are boring out the cylinders, and the flat 6 has different low down torque characteristics than the 4 cylinder cars the Sti guys are used to, so you should be much less fearful of lack of pulling power off boost.

You have probably already ordered the pistons, but IMHO you would be better with going to at least 8.5.

Looking forward to your progress report

Joe

[TomsSVX]

Originally Posted by svxistentialist

Melissa

Your priced menu does not seem to include any figures or items for charge cooling. Yet you are talking to Tom about water flanges. Does this mean you are planning to use a water or water/alcohol injection system? Without some cooling system, the whole thing will not work. Merely reducing the CR to 9:1 will not be sufficient to avoid the sort of problems Tom got with the Stage 111 install with detonation and timing getting hauled back. I flagged this problem way, way back in 05/06 and so it proved to pass.

Also I'm inclined to agree with Michael, you would be better going for 8.5:1 or lower. This build is now a different engine than the NA motor, so you should be optimising for forced induction. Remember that you are boring out the cylinders, and the flat 6 has different low down torque characteristics than the 4 cylinder cars the Sti guys are used to, so you should be much less fearful of lack of pulling power off boost.

You have probably already ordered the pistons, but IMHO you would be better with going to at least 8.5.

Looking forward to your progress report

Joe

Not really Joe. With the power goals she has in mind the pistons will fit perfectly. remember that a higher compression ratio piston will build boost faster. Not to mention, I have been able to create very nice power with the stock 10:1 CR with an uncooled charge. I have no fear in stating that with a higher boost level, a properly sized and efficient intercooler she can make 150hp more than I am now. Not to mention the engine loves timing, just not in low gears. With the Hydra Nemesis you are capable of trimming timing off the map depending on what gear you are in. I have yet to dial my car in with this feature, but it is my next step.

Marisa, good luck with the project, it has sound logic and will become an excellent reality as long as all the proper routes are taken. Keep us updated

Tom

[svxistentialist]

Thanks Tom. Good to hear yours is working well now. {I like your new spider too. Or tick }

My main point was with no figures or cost for charge cooling, I think she will be limited in what boost will work. In which case the cost of the build will not be rewarded with what power can be achieved. Not without some form of cooling.

Some of the more recent turbo Subaru EJ20 engines are using 9 CR and higher, but they have the flexibility of variable valve timing to change power parameters, [plus they all have charge coolers]. The EG33 does not have this benefit. Also the more modern engines are delivering relatively conservative horsepower, more conservative than the 97-00 engines. This is because they are now tuned to give clean emissions to match new and future directives. I'm assuming Marissa will not be restrained by emissions concerns, and that she would be looking for good hp and torque figures in return for her investment.

Joe

[TomsSVX]

Well Joe, quite frankly I would call her a fool if she did not add an intercooler into her system. That being said, she is no fool and neither are the other people involved in the development of her engine. I had the pleasure of meeting some of them at Reading this year. So I can only imagine that she simply did not add it in yet.

Tom

Originally Posted by svxistentialist

Thanks Tom. Good to hear yours is working well now. {I like your new spider too. Or tick }

My main point was with no figures or cost for charge cooling, I think she will be limited in what boost will work. In which case the cost of the build will not be rewarded with what power can be achieved. Not without some form of cooling.

Some of the more recent turbo Subaru EJ20 engines are using 9 CR and higher, but they have the flexibility of variable valve timing to change power parameters, [plus they all have charge coolers]. The EG33 does not have this benefit. Also the more modern engines are delivering relatively conservative horsepower, more conservative than the 97-00 engines. This is because they are now tuned to give clean emissions to match new and future directives. I'm assuming Marissa will not be restrained by emissions concerns, and that she would be looking for good hp and torque figures in return for her investment.

Joe

[svxistentialist]

Yeah, that's the way I'm reading it too.

I can't resist this, and there's only one way to say it, so I'm saying it:


COOLING IS AWESOME!!!

[BoxerFanatic]

color my interest piqued.

I've wanted to put an EG33 into a mid-engined chassis with twin external wastegate turbos and twin intercoolers, Ferrari 288 GTO style... in a car that looks like a hybrid between the 288 GTO and McLaren F1. Window-in-a-window and a couple of other SVX allusions included.

For the front engined SVX, a dual-core FMIC would be almost the only way it would work. Where would one even put two, or one large TMIC under the hood?

[redlightningsvx]

You could be like Tom and cut a huge hole in your hood.

[YourConfused]

Concerning cooling;
I don't think I gave her the current spreadsheet with the cooling parts list and numbers at the time of her posting prices. To keep it simple, the system will (should) rely upon an air to water intercooler that will take input air from each side and allow for a single (well twin t.b.) exit up top. Using the psychometric chart at work I figure that cooling moderate boost levels at around 600cfm should fit under the stock hood to avoid butchering the stock lines of the car. she is (I think) still kind of interested in a FMIC setup. I don't like the idea of increased volume on the compressor side of the intake as it just increased lag and makes pluming more extensive. Plus if you hack the bumper (and of coarse the bumper beam) up to fit in a decent sized FMIC, your insurance company won't like you much.

p.s. pics of internals will be posted in a few days

[STeeL25T]

Originally Posted by YourConfused

Concerning cooling;
I don't think I gave her the current spreadsheet with the cooling parts list and numbers at the time of her posting prices. To keep it simple, the system will (should) rely upon an air to water intercooler that will take input air from each side and allow for a single (well twin t.b.) exit up top. Using the psychometric chart at work I figure that cooling moderate boost levels at around 600cfm should fit under the stock hood to avoid butchering the stock lines of the car. she is (I think) still kind of interested in a FMIC setup. I don't like the idea of increased volume on the compressor side of the intake as it just increased lag and makes pluming more extensive. Plus if you hack the bumper (and of coarse the bumper beam) up to fit in a decent sized FMIC, your insurance company won't like you much.

p.s. pics of internals will be posted in a few days

I'd like to hear more about this. I was planning to run a like 7 or 8 psi on my single setup without an intercooler cause it shouldn't be a problem, but again I have been figuring that if the motor is being built up anyway then I may as well crank up the boost.. So I was keeping my eye on some smaller front mounts that kinda fit our bumper openings, like long and short (er, not tall) but decently thick. If your water to air is better I would definately consider it over that though. Will it work with a single setup and a Toms systle intake pipe?

[Tim]

Originally Posted by YourConfused

Plus if you hack the bumper (and of coarse the bumper beam) up to fit in a decent sized FMIC, your insurance company won't like you much.

p.s. pics of internals will be posted in a few days

Does the Stevesby bumper allow for fitment of an intercooler since it has a bigger opening?

[YourConfused]

Originally Posted by STeeL25T

I'd like to hear more about this. I was planning to run a like 7 or 8 psi on my single setup without an intercooler cause it shouldn't be a problem, but again I have been figuring that if the motor is being built up anyway then I may as well crank up the boost.. So I was keeping my eye on some smaller front mounts that kinda fit our bumper openings, like long and short (er, not tall) but decently thick. If your water to air is better I would definately consider it over that though. Will it work with a single setup and a Toms systle intake pipe?

To be honest i don't have a svx with a motor in it to size things up properly. I can't give a real answer (sorry), but will say no.

[YourConfused]

Originally Posted by Tim

Does the Stevesby bumper allow for fitment of an intercooler since it has a bigger opening?

I was under the impression that those bumpers weren't really that available. If they can be had, then they would look great with a FMIC stuffed in there.

[YourConfused]

the rods came today:

[YourConfused]

Got the pistons today! (edited to remove stupidity)

here are a couple of pics anyway: