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  #31  
Old 12-18-2011, 03:47 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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Re: "DeAd" battery.. intermittent.. ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Scott View Post
WELL.. You're probably right about the starter, I thot I would hear it too!
BUT.. The engine stops every time the shifter passes thru or stops at N.. or stops on P !
The ign sw was replaced about 2 years ago.
The AT inh sw was replaced 3 mos ago.
My SVX has no OEM security .. so, must have shunt.

Is there an explanation for the engine stopping in N and P?
Is there a fix? Could it be using a Bosch relay instead of the Chinese 40amp (81ohm 85-86) relay I got at Autozone?

Thanks, Jim
That relay is electrically the same as the Bosch, so it should do the same job. If it is connected up right, it won't cause any problems.

Does it do this only when the Cruise Control is on or not?

I can see no connection between the lever in N,P, and the engine cutting out. There is no connection to the Ign at this end of the starter system. There is a connection at the Ign switch and at the ECU for the P.N selections, but I can't see why it would cause it to cut the engine.
Of course there may be a separate engine problem.

As the Ign and the Inhibitor switch have been changed, I would have another look at those connections.

Harvey.
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  #32  
Old 12-19-2011, 07:44 PM
James Scott James Scott is offline
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Re: "DeAd" battery.. intermittent.. ???

[QUOTE][/QThat relay is electrically the same as the Bosch, so it should do the same job. If it is connected up right IT IS., it won't cause any problems.

Does it do this only when the Cruise Control is on or not? YES.. I put in N and P WITH & WITHOUT CRUISE ON.. . ONLY TURNS OFF WHEN CRUISE ON!

I can see no connection between the lever in N,P, and the engine cutting out. There is no connection to the Ign at this end of the starter system. There is a connection at the Ign switch RELATIVELY NEW!and at the ECU I HAVE RECENT ECUTUNE 1aV1 chipfor the P.N selections, but I can't see why it would cause it to cut the engine.
Of course there may be a separate engine problem. BASICALLY, RUNS VERY GOOD.. .

As the Ign and the Inhibitor switch have been changed, I would have another look at those connections.. . WELL, THE IGN SW MUST BE GOOD.. AND THE INH SW WAS MODIFIED TO ADJUST TO START IN BOTH N and P (used to start only in P) .. [BEST EXPLANATION FOR DIFFICULTY IN ADJUSTING INH SW EASILY WAS: SOMEONE LIKELY TO HAVE BENT DETENT ARM WHILE TIGHTENING OR UNTIGHTENING LEVER ON END OF DETENT ARM].,. SO, I WIDENED ADJUSTMENT SLOTS TO ALLOW FURTHER ADJUSTMENT OF INH SW [IT NOW ADJUSTS TO START IN BOTH N and P AND SHIFT FUNCTIONS WORK>> ALONG WITH DASH LIGHTS.

Harvey.
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UOTE]

I'm basically a novice when it comes to electronics, but I'm a real good mechanically minded home mechanic .. with excellent work skills. It's hard for me to imagine that I made a mistake installing THIS MOD! Wud switching 85 and 86 .. or 30 and 87 connections make a difference??

Thanks, Jim

P.S. My best guess at this point is that the wire from ign sw to solenoid is damaged and possibly partially broken.. yielding increased resistance on the 85-86 circuit.. ??? The morning after installing .. as I previously stated.. after the second stall (in P).. the starter wouldn't turn.. NOR WUD THE SOLENOID EVEN CLICK! Maybe that bad wire wud explain all this.. ???
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Jim
1995 Laguna Blue SVX AWD L - 240K (daily driver) - "ReBuILT" used engine at 236K miles (6/13)
2013 Veloster Red - Driver Now??Dropsprings [1/2" rear, 1" front] with Koni Strut Inserts> Magnaflow Exhaust System> ECUTune Stage 1av1 Upgrade (from 1v4)> ECUTune TCU MOD> Aluminum Crankshaft Pulley> Stainless Brake Lines> Phenolic Spacers> Perforated Brake Rotors (dint like, OEM now)> SmallCar Shift Kit (resting since TCU MOD)> 7-Position Ground System> High-Pressure Fuel Pressure Regulator (resting)> ATF Cooler & Campaign Filter> Yellow Polish Polyurethane Bushings> Pioneer Double-DIN Stereo with JL AUDIO Speakers> Driveshaft Rebuilt with C-Clip U-Joints> 15 Min MOD> 20 Min MOD .. . (2011)
Valentine One Radar Detector with Remote Display - ucan'tseeme!
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  #33  
Old 12-19-2011, 07:53 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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Re: "DeAd" battery.. intermittent.. ???

Try taking the orignal solenoid wire off the relay and plug back on the solenoid, see if it still does the same.

Harvey.
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  #34  
Old 12-20-2011, 06:34 PM
James Scott James Scott is offline
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Re: "DeAd" battery.. intermittent.. ???

OK.. But it might be intermittent in that wire.. .

I'll just hook the new solenoid wire and the old solenoid wire together .. that way the wires will be least disturbed. I'm afraid the old solenoid wire may be partially broken (^ resistance) .. or intermitently displaced from a break.. ???

Thanks, Jim
__________________
Jim
1995 Laguna Blue SVX AWD L - 240K (daily driver) - "ReBuILT" used engine at 236K miles (6/13)
2013 Veloster Red - Driver Now??Dropsprings [1/2" rear, 1" front] with Koni Strut Inserts> Magnaflow Exhaust System> ECUTune Stage 1av1 Upgrade (from 1v4)> ECUTune TCU MOD> Aluminum Crankshaft Pulley> Stainless Brake Lines> Phenolic Spacers> Perforated Brake Rotors (dint like, OEM now)> SmallCar Shift Kit (resting since TCU MOD)> 7-Position Ground System> High-Pressure Fuel Pressure Regulator (resting)> ATF Cooler & Campaign Filter> Yellow Polish Polyurethane Bushings> Pioneer Double-DIN Stereo with JL AUDIO Speakers> Driveshaft Rebuilt with C-Clip U-Joints> 15 Min MOD> 20 Min MOD .. . (2011)
Valentine One Radar Detector with Remote Display - ucan'tseeme!
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  #35  
Old 12-22-2011, 07:25 PM
James Scott James Scott is offline
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Re: "DeAd" battery.. intermittent.. ???

I put the old solenoid wire back on.. Works fine.

I like the idea of your MOD! But, looks like I'll have to use the old circuit until someone finds out why my car shuts engine off (revs a little first).. when the MOD is in place .. and the shifter is put in N or P .. WHILE CRUISE ON (???)

Please explain in simpletons terms why low resistance across 85-86 wud cause starter to engage (with MOD + Cruise ON + N or P) .. . ?

Thanks, Jim
__________________
Jim
1995 Laguna Blue SVX AWD L - 240K (daily driver) - "ReBuILT" used engine at 236K miles (6/13)
2013 Veloster Red - Driver Now??Dropsprings [1/2" rear, 1" front] with Koni Strut Inserts> Magnaflow Exhaust System> ECUTune Stage 1av1 Upgrade (from 1v4)> ECUTune TCU MOD> Aluminum Crankshaft Pulley> Stainless Brake Lines> Phenolic Spacers> Perforated Brake Rotors (dint like, OEM now)> SmallCar Shift Kit (resting since TCU MOD)> 7-Position Ground System> High-Pressure Fuel Pressure Regulator (resting)> ATF Cooler & Campaign Filter> Yellow Polish Polyurethane Bushings> Pioneer Double-DIN Stereo with JL AUDIO Speakers> Driveshaft Rebuilt with C-Clip U-Joints> 15 Min MOD> 20 Min MOD .. . (2011)
Valentine One Radar Detector with Remote Display - ucan'tseeme!
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  #36  
Old 12-22-2011, 08:16 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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Re: "DeAd" battery.. intermittent.. ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Scott View Post
I put the old solenoid wire back on.. Works fine.

I like the idea of your MOD! But, looks like I'll have to use the old circuit until someone finds out why my car shuts engine off (revs a little first).. when the MOD is in place .. and the shifter is put in N or P .. WHILE CRUISE ON (???)

Please explain in simpletons terms why low resistance across 85-86 wud cause starter to engage (with MOD + Cruise ON + N or P) .. . ?

Thanks, Jim
OK if you look at the diag, you can see the Cruise Control Inhibitor relay at the top.
This is powered when the cruise is on, but is not grounded till the shift lever is put in P or N, then power flows from the CC through the relay windings through the diode, shift inhibitor switch, to ground through the starter solenoid windings. This turns the relay on, to turn the CC off.

If the new starter relay has too higher a resistance, the small current flowing from the CC, will turn the new relay on, to work the starter.
The new relay has to have a low enough resistance, to need a lot more current than the CC can flow, so that the CC current won't be enough to turn the new relay on, to hit the starter, but will still flow enough to turn the CC off.



Harvey.
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Tell it like it is!

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97 Liberty GX Auto sedan. 320,000Kls.
04 Liberty 30R Auto Premium. 92.000kls.
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  #37  
Old 12-23-2011, 02:23 AM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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Re: "DeAd" battery.. intermittent.. ???

Jim thinking about it, the ECU is the only thing that can turn the engine off, without posting a code.

So looking at the only connection between the two, the P and N signals, that are sent from the gear box selector switch to the ECU. It is used there so it can alter the conditions to suit the idle, and mixture position.
When they are selected on the shifter, the ECU inputs are grounded (pulled low). When neither of them is low, then the car is in gear, ready to go.

Where I see a connection to this, that there is a fault in the wiring that is raising the voltage on these lines, above the ground that it should see. So when you added the mod relay, that added resistance, between the source and ground, raised the voltage of the signal, to signal a high, when it was a low.

When neither of the two inputs, N P, to the ECU are low (connected to ground), it knows that you have just put the car in drive, so it raises the idle speed to handle the converter load. Your quote that “it raises the revs before it stops”.

If you can find the spot where the power is shorting to the starter, or the wire from the CC to the starter connection, wherever it is connected in.

In the mean time, if you can find a relay, that can handle, at least 30 amps and has a winding drawing about 1 amp, that may pull that CC line closer to ground and stop the problem.

Harvey.
__________________
One Arm Bloke.
Tell it like it is!

95 Lsi. Bordeaux Pearl, Aust. RHD.149,000Kls Subaru BBS wheels.
97 Liberty GX Auto sedan. 320,000Kls.
04 Liberty 30R Auto Premium. 92.000kls.
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  #38  
Old 12-23-2011, 03:50 PM
James Scott James Scott is offline
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Re: "DeAd" battery.. intermittent.. ???

Thanks again for all your help! I still don't understand.. but surely it's my level of understanding electronics.. . Wish I did, but .. we all have our strong points.. Ha!

I'm gonna have a friend who certainly knows more than me.. to explain your explanation to me.. I expect to GET IT.. later.. . Ha!

At any rate, I will use the OEM circuit for now. Seems to start VERY well.. think the new battery may be at least most of my previous DEAD problems.

I just figured out the situation when I washed the engine and it wunt start for awhile.. It did that yesterday night! Realized that P light was not on dash.. indicating that inh sw was not connecting properly in P! Started in N!
Complicated cuz detent arm was certainly bent.. causing me to do custom installation of new inh sw (adj beyond normal to get start N and other functions also).

Thanks, Jim
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Jim
1995 Laguna Blue SVX AWD L - 240K (daily driver) - "ReBuILT" used engine at 236K miles (6/13)
2013 Veloster Red - Driver Now??Dropsprings [1/2" rear, 1" front] with Koni Strut Inserts> Magnaflow Exhaust System> ECUTune Stage 1av1 Upgrade (from 1v4)> ECUTune TCU MOD> Aluminum Crankshaft Pulley> Stainless Brake Lines> Phenolic Spacers> Perforated Brake Rotors (dint like, OEM now)> SmallCar Shift Kit (resting since TCU MOD)> 7-Position Ground System> High-Pressure Fuel Pressure Regulator (resting)> ATF Cooler & Campaign Filter> Yellow Polish Polyurethane Bushings> Pioneer Double-DIN Stereo with JL AUDIO Speakers> Driveshaft Rebuilt with C-Clip U-Joints> 15 Min MOD> 20 Min MOD .. . (2011)
Valentine One Radar Detector with Remote Display - ucan'tseeme!
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