Subjective difference between L and LSI?

Hi all,

I'm in the process of looking for a replacement car for my '87 BMW M6, and would like some feedback on the SVX. Is the electronic speed steering that much better than the standard engine speed sensitive steering (L)? Also, how is the cargo space (seats up and down), I ask this because my M6 is fairly impractical since the seats don't fold down and they are separated by a centerconsol (the trunk is reasonably big, but not very deep). I had a Mustang SVO in college and found the hatchback with folding rear seats quite useful. I am also considering a '99 Outback (5sp) due to its practicality (cargo room/ friends in back not scrunched) and fun to drive factor (enough power with its lower weight 3200LBS). I do a combo of city driving (washington DC metro area) and highway traveling to family in PA and NC.
Any insights would be appreciated. Also has anyone looked at the red '96 LSI in Delaware?

Thanks,
Cory

[jscorse]

I was also in the market for a practical Outback. Then I test drove the SVX that I now own. If you NEED a wagon then there is no contest, otherwise buy the SVX. The automatic Outback is kinda doggy and certainly no match for the 235 HP SVX.

I actually couldn't find a <40K miles used Outback in decent shape because I think most owners keep them forever. The ones that ARE out there are too expensive, next to the SVX. I bought my '97 SVX with 36K miles for much LESS than a comparable Outback at the time. Not that you can REALLY compair them.

The rear seat folddown is nice, but I rarely us it. The rear deck is so low (~18inches) that most larger items don't fit anyway. The trunk is plenty wide and deep just not tall. The front seat works better for large items (TVs and stuff).

The back seats are plenty big enough for passengers I find. They are low, but there is decent leg room I think.

It I can't comment on the steering. I have an LSi and it handles so nice it's a wonderful joy to drive. Hard to drive SLOWLY.

I drive to 44 miles to work one way each day and I would have NO other car for this trip. PERIOD.

Good luck.

[benebob]

What'cha doing with that M6? the 633csi is rare enough let alon an M! I've got a 95 L and have driven LSIs with the dif. steering. I didn't notice much of a difference in normal driving but I'm sure it would appear if you took it to the track. Cargo area is 8.2 cubic feet I think with the seats up. Down not so sure but the opening between the two is quite small. The trunk area itself can hold weekend luggage for 2. Fold down the seats and you've got enough space for camping stuff for 2.

After reading your post the first thing that came to mind is why would you want an Outback? Your history of performance minded cars I think would make you not enjoy an outback. Granted they are good cars but they are not performance vehicles by any standard. If you're looking for both might I suggest a Legacy GT? Same engine as the Outback, better suspension, better braking, better handling and a shade quicker. It too comes in sedan or wagon form and although it is a little smaller in the cubic foot space, in reality its about the same since unless you're carrying around big boxes.

Of course I'd take the SVX.

[Paisan]

Also the touring one uses a CV joint on the rear driveshaft instead of a U-joint.

-mike

I'll be selling the M6, It has 146K on it. My biggest gripe with it is that about once every year or so I have had to spend about 3K on repairs, the metric tires last about 2years and cost $200 each, plus with the rear center consol (and nice leather) I can't even take my friend and her dog (lab) anywhere. I've tested a manual outback (99 and 2000) and the 99 was zippy enough and handled good enough even with the stock 15" wheels (although it might have some trouble on hills?). The Legacy would be an option, but seem to be even rarer than the 5sp outback, plus I like the idea of being able to go skiing or maybe even on the beach with no worries about beating up the car (not having a lux car can have its advantages. I also like the looks of the Outback better. Also the cost of ownership with the SVX concerns me (I don't want to spend 2 to 3K every year or two if the SVX isn't reliable).

Cory

[wawazat??]

The LSi (L) tastes like chicken. The L more like.....ohhh, never mind.

Todd (apologizing in advance for the groaner above)

Cory - I've always LOVED the M6 and came close to purchasing one in 1996. The repair costs and the need for a sedan overcame my lust for the M6 and I bought a VR6 Passat. Still wondering if I messed up.

the M6 is a great car, just not as your only car (unless you have money to burn). Its definately a touring car (not as much torque in the low rpms as it could have for its 3600lbs of weight). Being rear wheel drive, is of course not good when it snows.

If you're going to be hauling around a dog don't get an SVX. The back seats are pretty..eh... intimate (close) and they're kinda a pain to get in an out of. I like it just because usually its myself and maybe one other person when I'm driving somewhere, its kinda rare that I have 3 or 4 people in the car.

- Ca$h

[Seraph]

I owned a 94L and I currently drive a 94LSi. I think I can safely say that there is not much of a difference between the two apart from the trim option inside. The seude/synthetic leather and what not. All the cool stuff. L does not have a sunroof so if it is a must, you should be looking at the LSi. As for preformance, L does not have ABS so it will behave like a car without one. Not that it really matters on black ice anyways. L in theory can kick off quicker than the LSi (it's the weight thing) but I know for a fact that 92s are the quickest at the line. I don't know why but they just have more power there.

Anything else? Owning a 92 LS-L and 94s, I can tell there there are more difference between the 92/3 and 94+ models.

[benebob]

Originally posted by Seraph
As for preformance, L does not have ABS so it will behave like a car without one. Not that it really matters on black ice anyways.

Yes the L did come with ABS. It wasn't standard but I think at least in 95 it was standard with AWD. I'd have to check my lit. though to be sure if it was a seperate option or coupled with AWD.

As for a vehicle being able to take skiing and onto the beach. The dif. between a legacy gt and Outback is neg. Maybe an inch and 5 degrees of approach/departure angles. Besides, unless your talking 18+ inches of snow the difference between any of these subarus is small if you take into account tire choice. I work at Ski Roundtop in the winters (for the free skiing of course) and have never had a problem in my svx. Looks is subjective, I wouldn't want you to not get what you want but I would recommend finding a GT for a test drive. Dog wise, the SVX probably isn't the best choice as you'll be cleaning all kinds of slobber of your leather or synth. depending on the model. Plus leather and dogs tend not to go well together.

There is a Red 94 FWD SVX L at a dealer in York, PA. I think they want $7995 for it but I'm sure you can get it for about $6k, its been there for quite some time now.

[mattski]

I own both an SVX for fun, and a Legacy Wagon for utility. Totally different cars for different applications. I would also recommend the Legacy Wagon over the Outback because of better handling and performance. The Legacy is still great in snow and gets me up my private road so I can get my plow to plow it.

I also own dogs (lab and terrier) and they will never, ever get in my SVX. Too nice of a car to get dog hair into.

As far as roominess, my dad went skiing with two friends in one of their SVXs. Imagine 3 grown men and their weekend ski gear including skis and boots.

I was considering but never got a chance to look at the 96 red LSi in Delaware. They bought it at an auction and had no history of what it had been through, and this can be of critical importance when buying an SVX. They are great when taken care of but many members have had nightmarish experiences with ones that had been abused. Having said that, it may be in nice shape but I do not know.

So, my advice is that if you must have one car to do a multitude of things, the SVX may not be the best choice. If you have another car to beat, carry dogs, home improvement supplies, etc. then the SVX is the only choice.

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally posted by $VX
If you're going to be hauling around a dog don't get an SVX. The back seats are pretty..eh... intimate (close) and they're kinda a pain to get in an out of. I like it just because usually its myself and maybe one other person when I'm driving somewhere, its kinda rare that I have 3 or 4 people in the car.

- Ca$h

I have to agree with the dog comment, but only for the leather's sake. Of course, you could fold down the back seat...

As for carrying around 3-4 people, I have done it and comfortably. The SVX makes a great double-date car, as far as I'm concerned. Great visibility from the back, too.

My skis are 200s and they fit just fine in the SVX with the seat folded down.

[Seraph]

Originally posted by benebob

There is a Red 94 FWD SVX L at a dealer in York, PA. I think they want $7995 for it but I'm sure you can get it for about $6k, its been there for quite some time now.

All 94 L series are FWD. They only made AWD L series in 95. For a 94 L, I'd not pay more than 5k and 5.5 at most if it is in great condition. 94 L series did not have ABS. Maybe it was an option but not on the stock car. I guess 94 was the year the FHI decided to go cheap on the SVX.

Lwin

[mattski]

Originally posted by Mr. Pockets




As for carrying around 3-4 people, I have done it and comfortably. The SVX makes a great double-date car, as far as I'm concerned. Great visibility from the back, too.

.

I would respectfully disagree with this comment if the driver is of above average height. At 6'1", I drive with the seat in its rearmost position, leaving hardly any leg room behind me. When driving with the whole family, my 12 year old sits behind me but I have to move my seat up a couple of inches. He is comfortable and so am I, but that position is not ideal for me.

Also, getting out of the back seat is not the easiest. I cannot even imagine that task in a skirt.

[Seraph]

Originally posted by mattski
I would respectfully disagree with this comment if the driver is of above average height.

I have to agree with the disagreement too. On the way to Reading III meet, I was in the back seat of Doug's SVX (long story) for more than 1/2 of the trip (over 8 hours) and I was comfy there. So back seat is not that bad in the SVX. And doug is over 6 feet tall. You want bad seats, look at the camaro.

Lwin