SMALL single turbo project, thoughts welcome! - Page 8

ZephTheChef · #**106** 11-28-2010, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Wait, I'm confused. It's turbocharged now, or not? Cause why is the stock airbox in place?

Sorry, I am sure I missed something.

It is NOT turbocharged at this point. I'm still waiting on parts (including the turbo), but most of it should be here this week. It is put together to the point I can drive it in and out of the shop, and I've got the idle worked out. The pre-turbo exhaust is all tacked up, the hard part of the post-turbo exhaust is tacked up, I'm just waiting on a cutout I ordered to continue running it on back. Hopefully the exhaust will be together and finish-welded by this weekend. From that point I will just need to fit the turbo, make the oil lines for it, run the intercooler piping, wire in the new MAF and plug in my ECU chip, and misc other odds and ends. I don't foresee any huge challenges left but I am sure I'll hit an unexpected delay somewhere along the way.

It is currently running on the stock ECU, no fuel correction apart from the adjustable FPR. I can't wait to get the exhaust finished up so I can take it for a spin. I'd like to be able to hammer out a decent tune and make sure I get it running perfect on the "E85" (E70 this time of year) before I throw the turbo on there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Cause why is the stock airbox in place?

Funny you should mention it, but I'll actually be leaving the stock airbox and intake. I plan on routing my intercooler piping, hidden, through it. The underhood appearance will be completely stock at first glance. My fuel rails will be the big giveaway that something special is going on...however I intend to paint them flat black to keep them a bit low-profile.

ridered777 · #**107** 11-29-2010, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZephTheChef

I plan on routing my intercooler piping, hidden, through it. The underhood appearance will be completely stock at first glance.

I know you're wrapping and double coating the piping, but I definitely think "playing with fire" so to speak, running piping through those plastic hoses. Since you didn't mention it, I'm assuming it's not the hot side, but underhood temps get pretty high, and you're only increasing them with this little project...

I'd also be worried about where your wrapping STOPS. Have you considered that heat is just an energy, and like all energy, its not being destroyed, but rather insulated so it travels to the rest of the exhaust system, causing a higher concentration of heat to be dissipated over a smaller area of exhaust. This will put increased heat on what I would guess to be the beginning of the "residential" exhaust system, including any components you plan on re-installing to pass emissions (ie. cats, resonator, etc)

Other than that, looks like a fun grass-root oriented build. Keep it up!

ZephTheChef · #**108** 11-29-2010, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridered777

I know you're wrapping and double coating the piping, but I definitely think "playing with fire" so to speak, running piping through those plastic hoses. Since you didn't mention it, I'm assuming it's not the hot side, but underhood temps get pretty high, and you're only increasing them with this little project...

Interesting thoughts, important to consider.

Of course I meant cold-side. Most factory piping on older turbo cars is rubber or plastic anyway, it should be perfectly fine. I see what you mean when you say I'm increasing underhood temps with this project, but I'm actually pretty confident that the overall temps under the hood will be quite a bit lower than stock. I've eliminated a lot of clutter which should allow better air circulation around things such as the intake manifold. I've eliminated the EGR system, which was a pretty serious heat pipe to the intake manifold. And I'll be thoroughly insulating what is probably the largest source of underhood heat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridered777

I'd also be worried about where your wrapping STOPS. Have you considered that heat is just an energy, and like all energy, its not being destroyed, but rather insulated so it travels to the rest of the exhaust system, causing a higher concentration of heat to be dissipated over a smaller area of exhaust. This will put increased heat on what I would guess to be the beginning of the "residential" exhaust system, including any components you plan on re-installing to pass emissions (ie. cats, resonator, etc)

Other than that, looks like a fun grass-root oriented build. Keep it up!

And yes, I'm well aware that wrapping your exhaust system will drastically shorten it's life. As I said when I originally discussed it, wrap is terrible for the longevity of your exhaust. You've got heat fatigue, and the wrap can trap moisture and cause rust as well. It's BAD stuff. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone that's looking for long-term durability. I'm using it anyway. As inexpensive as exhaust is relative to other things on the car, it's worth it to me to keep the heat down. It's also very beneficial to the performance of a turbo to keep that exhaust nice and hot until it gets to said turbo. Also, I change things up so often that I don't think my exhaust will wear out before I'm tired of it anyway. I don't care if it doesn't last 5 years, I probably don't even need 1 before I'll get the mod bug again and do a bigger turbo and 3" exhaust.

On the same topic, keep in mind I run RICH whereas the stock tune is stupid LEAN. I'm running E85, which runs about 200 degrees cooler EGTs at the same (lambda) mixtures. Yeah, I might hold a lot more heat in my pipes...but my EGTs will likely be 300-500 degrees lower than what the factory tune puts out on gasoline.

I also have no need to ever pass emissions in my state, and will likely sell my cats for scrap. You're absolutely right that this will not be good on my exhaust...but my answer is so what? My focus isn't to build a turbo kit that's going to last 20 years, it's to build one that might last 2-5 years of weekend driving...and to do so cheaply, effectively, and stealthily. Thanks for the comments!

Nevin · #**109** 11-29-2010, 11:35 AM

Gotcha. I just wasn't sure, so I thought I'd ask.

When in doubt... ASK!

ZephTheChef · #**110** 11-29-2010, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Gotcha. I just wasn't sure, so I thought I'd ask.

When in doubt... ASK!

Uh-oh. Somebody got a medium-sized, fairly heavy package from Hong Kong today. The quality appears much better than I expected, given the price. Of course, it's set up for a DSM, where it would be mounted flange-up, which is backwards from my setup so I'll have to re-clock the compressor and exhaust housings. No big deal, I wanted to get a good look at the guts anyway to see that everything looks right.

However on a sad note, I was expecting to receive my welding helmet today, but it turns out it hasn't even shipped yet, it was just my tungsten electrodes. Sad. I was looking forward to trying it out. Now I'll probably be done with most of the welding by the time it gets here, lol.

Nevin · #**111** 11-29-2010, 04:47 PM

Did you get one of the ball bearing shmeebay units?

I'm actually running a normal journal bearing t3/t4 on my mazda right now, and it's treating me decently. No complaints so far anyway.

ZephTheChef · #**112** 11-29-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Did you get one of the ball bearing shmeebay units?

I'm actually running a normal journal bearing t3/t4 on my mazda right now, and it's treating me decently. No complaints so far anyway.

It's the tried-and-true ebay 16G. They've been making knock-offs for some 10 years now, so I'm sure they've gotten it down. I've heard just as many success stories as horror stories with the China turbos, so I'm willing to give it a shot. It's journal bearing. It's a very small turbo for this engine...I could literally run two of them, so I'm really curious to see how that part plays out. It should be extremely responsive and add a lot of power from probably 2000rpm on up...I'd rather make good power all the time, than great power at only 4000rpm+.

ZephTheChef · #**113** 11-29-2010, 07:33 PM

Ok, so I'm just waiting on a few parts now...hate waiting on parts. Also, the black o-rings that shipped with my injector rebuild kit aren't up to the task...they've started seeping already. I figured they would, they were a very loose fit in my rails. I've ordered the proper ones (which are green, and damn near impossible to find as it's a completely non-standard size...nothing in any of my half dozen o-ring assortments even comes close.). In other words, can't drive the car...can't work on the exhaust, and it seems I'm missing/waiting on one thing for every part that's left to do, so there's really nothing I can accomplish tonight. Sad.

Did some thinking on the intake. I'm going to be fabbing up an adapter plate to bolt to the MAF with the 3" to 2.5" exhaust reducer I didn't end up using, so that I'll be able to use a 2.5" to 2.25" coupler to attach directly to my intercooler piping. The reasoning for going with 2.25" instead of 2" is that both the J-pipe I'm using, and the intercooler are 2.25". I would have liked the smaller pipe diameter to keep the intake velocity up, but it made sense from a convenience perspective to size it up. Larger and/or longer piping=worse throttle response/more lag. 2.25" should be good to 475 horsepower or so before becoming a restriction, so it'll be plenty of room to grow.

ZephTheChef · #**114** 12-01-2010, 10:40 AM

FINALLY tracked down the spark plugs I want to run. May upgrade to a brisk or something fancy in the future, but for now I'm sticking with the budget theme of the build and going with good ol' NGK V-power coppers. The stock heat range is 6, so I would have liked to get a 9 for use with E85, but they don't seem to make one that cold for our cars, so I settled for an 8, which was kind of hard to find because as it turns out, it's the OEM plug on Honda outboard motors and has a goofy Honda part number.

I got 15 of them to make shipping more reasonable, 8 for my Q45, and 6 for the SVX. Cost me $30.35 shipped, so $2 a plug. Beats the hell out of $15 a plug for the brisk ones...which have been proven to add about 1% HP. I couldn't see spending $90 for 2HP, but I'm plenty pleased with $12 for a set of good, ethanol-friendly plugs.

StatGSR · #**115** 12-01-2010, 12:12 PM

^ seriously NGK Coppers are about the best out there, I don't use anything else on my cars. I have read it time and again that the coppers make the best spark.

just don't expect them to last over 15k. obviously, changing plugs on most subaru's is a little inconvenient, but not completely horrible.

Also, I'm pretty sure Napa can get you any ngk plug you want (may have to get shipped to your store)

ZephTheChef · #**116** 12-01-2010, 12:53 PM

I agree, I've been running them for years. They're great, but do wear out fast. This car likely won't see more than 2-3000 miles a year tops if that, so it's not a big deal for me. I run a pretty tight gap on turbo cars too, plus they won't be very likely to foul with E85. I'm happy with the decision for now.

They don't make any V-power plugs that are resistor plugs in a 9 heat range...I'd either have to go with iridium (which is nasty price-wise, and can form hot spots = very bad for E85). They make a surface-discharge plug in a 9 that would be ideal, but they're obscenely expensive ($20+ each)...the only other alternative is a different-style surface discharge plug, also astronomically expensive ($50+ per plug)...so if I go with a surface-discharge type in the future it will definitely be a Brisk.

I'll be posting some pics of a few of the parts I've got waiting to go on later today. Cell-phone pics again, but better than nothing.

ZephTheChef · #**117** 12-01-2010, 01:20 PM

Z32 Maf:

Turbo:

Fuel Pump:

Sandwich Plate:

ZephTheChef · #**118** 12-01-2010, 01:50 PM

Also, I inquired about the exhaust cutout, since it's been 10 days since I ordered it, with no word. Evidently it's a special order item in the 2.5" size, and it has just shipped from the supplier to where I ordered it, so it ought to be in my hands early next week. Disappointing, as this weekend will probably be kind of a waste without it...maybe it'll surprise me and show up Saturday though.

My welding helmet had been delayed as well, but it's supposed to be delivered tomorrow. This project should move pretty fast once I get everything in...most of the hard stuff is already done

Nevin · #**119** 12-01-2010, 04:24 PM

As I have understood, NGK heat range numbers are reverse of the typical code.

So, instead of going higher number, you'd actually want to go lower.

Example: A ZFR 6F11 is colder than a ZFR 7F11.

All others do it differently as I am aware.

But maybe I am thinking about it backwards, and your way is right!! Ahh, now I'm second guessing myself! Well, too late. I've already posted it online. Now it will be confusing people for years to come.

ZephTheChef · #**120** 12-01-2010, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

As I have understood, NGK heat range numbers are reverse of the typical code.

So, instead of going higher number, you'd actually want to go lower.

Example: A ZFR 6F11 is colder than a ZFR 7F11.

All others do it differently as I am aware.

But maybe I am thinking about it backwards, and your way is right!! Ahh, now I'm second guessing myself! Well, too late. I've already posted it online. Now it will be confusing people for years to come.