A day without illegal immigrants...

[lhopp77]

Bipa--you are looking at the wrong news sources and I might add--a minority source. I was and am talking about the telephone "data mining" efforts. Even the warrantless eavesdropping gets a majority support, but not with the large favorable figures.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051200375.html

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=1953464

http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000389.htm

As you can see in both of these "liberal media" surveys US public supports it
by the figures that I mentioned above. Like I said 63 percent approval or more.

Lee

[Manarius]

Lee, I hate to interrupt, but if most supported the NSA snooping, Senators wouldn't care so much. But, they've been heavily leaned on by their constituents and are going to ring out the people involved. Most people are in complete disagreement with the NSA snooping (which is why it has gotten *a lot of press). And those who have that "you shouldn't have anything to hide" attitude only contribute to the problem.

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Bipa--you are looking at the wrong news sources and I might add--a minority source. I was and am talking about the telephone "data mining" efforts. Even the warrantless eavesdropping gets a majority support, but not with the large favorable figures.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051200375.html

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=1953464

http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000389.htm

As you can see in both of these "liberal media" surveys US public supports it
by the figures that I mentioned above. Like I said 63 percent approval or more.

Lee

Hmm.... a poll of twice as many people is less accurate? Guess that's why the poll you quoted has a sampling error of 5% while the one I quoted has a sampling error of 4%... 'cause mine is less accurate

First, the Washington Post article
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051200375.html

....
The survey results reflect initial public reaction to the NSA program. Those views that could change or deepen as more details about the effort become known over the next few days
....
A total of 502 randomly selected adults were interviewed Thursday night for this survey. Margin of sampling error is five percentage points for the overall results. The practical difficulties of doing a survey in a single night represents another potential source of error.


Now let's take a second look at the Newsweek Poll which adressed not only the NSA snooping but also other issues. I already posted the results of the snooping questions, where 53 percent of Americans think the NSA’s surveillance program “goes too far in invading people’s privacy.”
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12771821/site/newsweek/
....
The fracas over surveillance is yet another headache the Republicans didn’t need heading into the November midterm elections. Seventy-one percent of Americans are dissatisfied with the way things are going in the country, and more than half—52 percent—say they would like the Democrats to win enough seats to take over Congress this November (only 35 percent want the Republicans to keep control). Looking ahead to the presidential race in 2008, more Americans said they would like to see a Democrat elected than a Republican—50 percent versus 31 percent. That, despite the fact that a majority of those polled don’t believe a Democrat would do any better than Bush is doing on a variety of issues. Democrats also have a significant lead in being perceived as better able to bring about the changes the country needs: 53 percent to 30 percent.

Bush’s new approval low of 35 percent in the NEWSWEEK poll is below the nadir of Bill Clinton’s presidency in May 1993, when the former president hit 36 percent. The 41st president, George H.W. Bush, hit his lowest ratings late in 1992 before he was defeated by Clinton: A Gallup poll in July 1992 recorded a 32 percent approval rate for the first President Bush. But other presidents have fared worse. Jimmy Carter scored 28-29 percent in June and July 1979, according to Gallup. President Richard Nixon’s Gallup number dropped to 24 percent in August 1974.

For the NEWSWEEK poll, Princeton Survey Research Associates International interviewed 1,007 adults aged 18 and older between May 11 and 12 by telephone. The margin of error is plus or minus 4 percentage points.

Yet another poll:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...tm?POE=NEWISVA

51% oppose NSA database
By Susan Page, USA TODAY
Updated 5/14/2006 8:20 PM ET

WASHINGTON — The majority of Americans disapprove of a massive Pentagon database containing the records of billions of phone calls made by ordinary citizens, according to a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll. About two-thirds are concerned that the program may signal other, not-yet-disclosed intelligence efforts directed at the general public.

The survey of 809 adults taken Friday and Saturday shows a nation that continues to wrestle with the balance between fighting terrorism and maintaining civil liberties.

By 51%-43%, those polled disapprove of the program, disclosed Thursday in USA TODAY. The National Security Agency has been collecting phone records from three of the nation's four largest telecommunication companies since soon after the Sept. 11 attacks.

Most who approve of the program say it violates some civil liberties but is acceptable because investigating terrorism "is the more important goal."

"The combating-terrorism issue still has resonance with the American public," says political scientist Richard Eichenberg of Tufts University. "But the public's tolerance for this sort of invasion of privacy may be topping out. It may be people are starting to say, 'When is the other shoe going to drop? What else are they doing?' "

About two-thirds say they're concerned that the government might also be gathering other information on the public, such as bank records and Internet usage, or listening in on domestic phone conversations without obtaining a warrant.

Two-thirds are concerned the phone database will misidentify innocent Americans as possible terrorist suspects.

The findings differ from an ABC News/Washington Post poll taken Thursday night of 502 adults. In that survey, 63% called the program an acceptable way to investigate terrorism. The findings may differ because the questions in the two polls were worded differently.

In addition, the Gallup survey includes more respondents — the margin of error is +/—4 percentage points, compared with 5 points in the ABC poll — and was taken after Americans had a day or two to hear and think about the program.

Views divide sharply along partisan lines. Among Republicans and those who generally vote Republican, 71% approve of the program. Among Democrats and Democratic "leaners," 73% disapprove. A 54% majority say the program is probably or definitely illegal.

Americans split 47%-49% over whether the news media should report information about the government's secret methods to fight terrorism.

They want to learn more about this program, though. By nearly 2-1, 62%-34%, they support immediate congressional hearings to investigate it.

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by mohrds

They are not prisoners of war. They war is officially over. .

Did somebody surrender? Or is this another one of those Carrier photo ops that I missed? What did the banner say on this one?

It's ethnocentric to think any war is over just because some numbskull impersonating a pilot says it is. The Taliban never surrendered, neither did Al Qaeda, nor did Iraq's army.

The British lost to the colonies here after burning the Whitehouse almost completely down. They rode straight into Washington, and New York. They "occupied" us in every town we had. We were hiding behind trees and taking potshots ourselves. We blew up anything we could of the British by any means we could. We slit the throats of many officers and displayed the bodies where their troops could find them.

We won our independence entirely by using these so called "terrorist" tactics. The British had a pet name for us. We were called the "Barbarians." They argued over "stooping down" to our neanderthal level, and eventually refused saying they would rather keep their "Honour". Washington may be our hero, but he was their traitor.

Pick up a history book sometime, then look up the word ethnocentric. We are "not" the center of the universe no more than the Romans were the center at any time. No war is over just because "we" say it is.

Just more of that sweet tasting propaganda you are so fond of, and keep buying into.

[WGJ]

Fanatics are picturesque, mankind would rather see gestures than listen to reasons.

Friedrich Nietzsche

[Electrophil]

Electrophil pokes his stick in the anthill, while looking up puzzled.

Guess I hijacked this thread pretty well.... sorry about that. Back to the topic of illegal immigration:

Frito Bandito busted on immigration charges

By John Breneman

Immigration officials say they arrested the Frito Bandito at the Mexican border today trying to transport an 18-wheeler full of illegal aliens to a corn chip-processing facility in Chula Vista, California.

While officials from Homeland Security and the Department of Justice wrangled for jurisdiction over the case some FBI men tried to interrogate the alleged Bandito, but all he would say was, "We don't need no stinking badges."

The legendary snack food icon reportedly went "underground" after Doritos and Cheetos and extra-strength Tostitos surpassed his once-dominant Fritos in popularity among American consumers, then quickly climbed to #1 on the INS "most wanted" list.

The heavily armed Bandito surrendered without a firefight, but he now claims he was roughed up by Immigration Dept. agents who he claims yanked his mustachio and ruined his sombrero. He referred all questions to his attorney F. Lee "Speedy" Gonzalez.

[WGJ]

Aye Caramba!

[Electrophil]

OK... Here's a new thought that just came to my feeble mind today. I think we've been duped on this illegal immigration routine.

I'm an avid Fox news watcher. The old "keep friends close, enemies closer routine". I sat there and yell back at Hann-idiocy and Oh'Really? as they go about their propaganda filled antics.

Now about 18 months ago, that meathead O'Really? started muttering about securing the Mexican border. 2 months later, Hann-idiocy jumps on the band wagon, and they started droning. Night after night, they both had to mutter and whimper something about our "un-secured border". It wasn't working, the other news networks weren't feeding in their trough, but they kept droning... and droning....

Now about 3 weeks before Snow-job got his new job with Dubya, it starts catching on in a new direction of illegal immigration. Oh-Dobbles on CNN picks up on it, and voila! It spreads like a wildfire until now it has turned into our country's huge issue.

Now where's my point?

My point is... The press secretary's job does include running around stuttering out non-answers to questions from the press in their little room. I agree. But! His main job is PR. He is the Public Relations Director for the President of the United States. He is.... and always has been the Administration's spin doctor. That's his job.

Now isn't it just a little *&^^%( funny, that all of a sudden, we are focused on an issue that didn't amount to a hill of beans 5 months ago, even though there is little change in our predicament for years?

Isn't it just a wee bit peculiar that the issue we are suddenly focused on neutralizes the President into a midstream position? Isn't it just a slight bit odd that this issue originated with the spin weinies that Snow-Job used to work for?

Waking from my slumber, I have to admit they got me on this one. They successfully baited and switched my rear.

I'm back awake now. Illegal Immigration is as much a non-issue to me as it was 6 months ago.

14 US troops have died in the last couple of days. I'm back focused on those poor guys. If a bunch of guys want to come out here and pick lettuce.... well... I like a good salad before they bring me my steak. It's a non-issue cooked up by the Fox propaganda machine, just as it was a non-issue when Reagan cooked it up during his arms selling to Iran fiasco. If Snow hadn't of went to the PR job, and Dobbs hadn't of sold out, we would still be focused on the right issues, and the weiney twins Hann-idiocy and Oh-Really? would still be trying to stir it up, and we would still be ignoring them.

[WGJ]

pretty good deductive reasoning for someone with a "feeble' mind. Rove is a master of distraction. WMD's, abortion, ports, now 'illegals'...he's trying to do what magicians have always done, get you to look over here while doing something over there. Illegals are a serious issue, the timing of the debate, at minimum, highly questionable. We also have other distractions like making a living, raising children, sports, TY, booze, drugs...you get the picture. Takes time, energy and some native intelligence to figure out the wizard's behind the curtains.
WGJ
One of the best tricks is the chump change tax breaks, (a few hundred) for the middle class while the rich (millions) and big corprations (billions) get enormous tax breaks.

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by WGJ

pretty good deductive reasoning for someone with a "feeble' mind. Rove is a master of distraction. WMD's, abortion, ports, now 'illegals'...he's trying to do what magicians have always done, get you to look over here while doing something over there. Illegals are a serious issue, the timing of the debate, at minimum, highly questionable. We also have other distractions like making a living, raising children, sports, TY, booze, drugs...you get the picture. Takes time, energy and some native intelligence to figure out the wizard's behind the curtains.
WGJ
One of the best tricks is the chump change tax breaks, (a few hundred) for the middle class while the rich (millions) and big corprations (billions) get enormous tax breaks.

Thanks. I am right behind you on that tax cut. I said from the very beginning I'd much rather have a balanced... or at least close to balanced National balance than a free set of tires. Every family filing married I know maxed out at $600 on that tax cut, while still paying in a bundle. Mine wasn't outrageous this year at somewhere around $3,200 pay in, with a $2,843 refund.. total of what? a little over $6k during the year? $600 rebate back? That's only 1/10th of the cost of that supercharger system I would give a left leg for.... not counting installation.

It really does come up to an excellent set of tires... that's it. No roof replacements, no major renovations on home, no niceties we would all love to do around the house or on our cars. A $600 vacation? Forget about it. I live in Vegas, and that would last me 3 days on the strip IF I played it conservatively. Heck, Elton John tickets run up to over $200. At the same time, Millionaires are writing off millions of their gross in depreciation on renting out their Yachts to P-Diddy under the guise of "small business". Owning a personal yacht for pleasue, and letting people rent if for 150k a week is not what we all think as a "small business". Unless you own a yacht. But then... if a person owns some multi-million dollar yacht... well... screw them. It's a toy. I have toys too, they just don't cost millions.... or even 100's of thousands... or even 10's of thousands. Who want's to rent a Jet ski for 150k a week?

We just HAVE to firmly take a branch of the government. I'm not even wanting both... cause quite frankly, I feel it's the loss of checks and balances causing our horror story today more than just those free spending out of control Republicans. (Bush being a puppet to Cheney and his gang is making it worse though. )

I'm also frothing at the bit for some accountability. If only to put a seed into future leaders... be they republican, democrat, whig, or the Harley club of America. Show them and the world we believe in accountability with our leaders. We may just earn a little respect we've sadly lost over the last few years.



We did just fine with a democratic administration and a republican congress... especially during that short period of line item vetos... which... with what little time I've put into studying it, seems on the surface to be a good idea to get back. (Not enough information gathered to be certain on the line item veto.. but it seems reasonable on the surface.)

[WGJ]

has never been completely documented, Bush sure likes to work those poor bastards. They signed on for what, one weekend a month, and some other small time commitments. First Iraq, now the border. The grunts on the border won't have the political pull to be AWOL for a day much less months. Seems as though enforcing the rule of law with the National Guard is getting closer and closer to home. Our volunteer forces are getting stretched awfully thin. At this rate we'll either have to withdraw from Iraq within the next year / 18 months or initiate a DRAFT!
And what do you think will happen when we start shooting wetbacks trying to sneak into the country. After all, the National Guard shot unarmed college students in a nonviolent demonstration against the Vietnam war at Ohio State. Eventually someone on the border is going to get killed. Perhaps alot of people...eventually there will be riots. What do you do with, say, a half a million (and that's just the gang members) seriously pissed off Mexicans rioting in LA? Previous LA riots will look like a day at the beach in comparison.
Remember, you heard it here first. (I think).
Good night and good luck,
WGJ

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Bipa

Well I do know a few Russian families that illegally crossed into the United States via Messico. Ironically, they were trying to pass through the United States with hopes of sneaking into Canada and decided to stay here.

The reason: Too far.