ENOUGH of the We Are Under Attack Thread!

[Electrophil]

Tell them to surrender their weapons. They have the ability to stop the destruction of your country immediately, and you know it. All they have to do is prove they are men by admitting their idiotic deeds a few weeks ago and facing the music for it.

Or are they cowards that will continue hiding among your citizens?

[SilverSpear]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Tell them to surrender their weapons. They have the ability to stop the destruction of your country immediately, and you know it. All they have to do is prove they are men by admitting their idiotic deeds a few weeks ago and facing the music for it.

Or are they cowards that will continue hiding among your citizens?

Look Rob, the fact that Hizbullah militants and supporters for ALL the Shiite muslims is both a curse and a plus for us (or you can say for the Shiites).

The curse is that Israel has an aliby to destroy civilian buildings and the plus is that the Jews cannot defeat the Shiites as a people.

Concerning their "Cowardness" in hiding behind civilians, I double dare Israel reveals footages of Hizbullah launching missiles from ALL the towns Israel has targeted and destroyed and as I promised I will reveal to you info even the Mussad doesn't know about "how Hizbullah was fighting Israel" thread.

[SSSVX]

I only had one reply in that thread. I don't like and don't know much about politic.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Tell them to surrender their weapons. They have the ability to stop the destruction of your country immediately, and you know it. All they have to do is prove they are men by admitting their idiotic deeds a few weeks ago and facing the music for it.

Or are they cowards that will continue hiding among your citizens?

Come now Robert, you know they are not cowards nor are they dumb. They're resorting to tactics that are minimizing their losses and maximizing their effectiveness (at least in their opinion).

The more destruction Lebanon receives, the better for them.

I'm sure the Brits thought we were cowards hiding in the forests setting traps and taking pot shots at their well disciplined traditional army. Idiotic would be standing up front as targets for the better funded, better equipped, and better trained military.

[benebob]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

There were very few Viet Cong fighting forces left near the end. They had been decimated. There were only a few communist political cadre. The vast majority of the fighting forces were North Vietnamese that had come south. The war WAS BEING WON on the battle field and in the government. While there was some corruption in the South Vietnamese government, it was slowly being eradicated. We could have won the war in the long term with minimal US force involvement, but with total logistical support and strategic air support for the South Vietnamese army that was growing in strength and capabilities all the time. Contrary to your statement, the Americans were very well liked by the vast majority of the populace.

Lee

Wow!, LOOK AT THAT PIG IN THE SKY! You should really stop smoking crack it isn't very wise. Do you know how many N Vietnamese "came south" after we left? 575,000! That seems like a few to me to. If you don't understand history then maybe you shouldn't make things up.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by benebob

Wow!, LOOK AT THAT PIG IN THE SKY! You should really stop smoking crack it isn't very wise. Do you know how many N Vietnamese "came south" after we left? 575,000! That seems like a few to me to. If you don't understand history then maybe you shouldn't make things up.

Maybe you forget all that was going on at the time. I know how many NVA came south, I was there a the time. There were several things that contributed to the eventual fall of Vietnam. The biggest blow was the peace movement that caused the withdrawal of US forces before the
ARVN were completely ready to assume the major military role.

The ceasefire and peace agreement would have worked, if we (the US) had done our part to ensure compliance. Watergate actually emasculated the administration and kept Nixon from resuming bombing to enforce the terms of the agreement. Even without this, the ARVN were holding their own in the fight. When Nixon resigned and "weak sister" Ford bowed to the will of the left and did nothing---things started to crumble. The final blow was when US funding was refused. (Ironically, funding was cut off at the same time as funding for Israel was increased.) This was not totally a military defeat, but a devastating psychological defeat while limiting the ARVN capabilities. (Fuel rationing for military vehicles and operations, etc)

More NVA could have been killed in days than had been killed during the entire war if bombing would have been approved. They had columns of soldiers and equipment on all major roads going south. It would have been similar to the Iraqi massacre during the withdrawal from Kuwait. For the first time it would have been a totally conventional type war that they could not win.

Lee

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

I like you too, so please hit me.

Based on your earlier posts you definitely deserve to be hit. SO, what will it be........???

A Bust in the mouth or a Crack in the teeth???

Lee

[benebob]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Maybe you forget all that was going on at the time. I know how many NVA came south, I was there a the time. There were several things that contributed to the eventual fall of Vietnam. The biggest blow was the peace movement that caused the withdrawal of US forces before the
ARVN were completely ready to assume the major military role.

The ceasefire and peace agreement would have worked, if we (the US) had done our part to ensure compliance. Watergate actually emasculated the administration and kept Nixon from resuming bombing to enforce the terms of the agreement. Even without this, the ARVN were holding their own in the fight. When Nixon resigned and "weak sister" Ford bowed to the will of the left and did nothing---things started to crumble. The final blow was when US funding was refused. (Ironically, funding was cut off at the same time as funding for Israel was increased.) This was not totally a military defeat, but a devastating psychological defeat while limiting the ARVN capabilities. (Fuel rationing for military vehicles and operations, etc)

More NVA could have been killed in days than had been killed during the entire war if bombing would have been approved. They had columns of soldiers and equipment on all major roads going south. It would have been similar to the Iraqi massacre during the withdrawal from Kuwait. For the first time it would have been a totally conventional type war that they could not win.

Lee

I haven't forgotten a thing.

Yeah, the Arvin was just about to turn the corner right. After 12 years of training. It was really going to assume the defense of S.V.

They were definately holding their own. The N.V. anticipated the invasion taking 2 years. How long did it end up taking? Since you we're there I guess I don't need to post that for ya? That's anything but holding their own.

The funding was never cut off as you say. The balloon bill for what $500 million wasn't approved and that was introduced in the middle of the offensive so it wouldn't have done a darn thing as by the time one ship with oil would have gotten there it would have been acceptted by Viet Cong.

Yes, more Viet Cong would've been killed in days then the entire war up until that point but you're lacking the knowledge that HAD THE US broken the cease fire agreement China AND Russia would've entered the war. The North KNEW this and KNEW that the US wouldn't do a darn thing otherwise, they wouldn't have gone down the roads. Where were the Arvin when they were doing this. They had plenty of planes and helicopters. If it would've been such a turkey shoot then even those 12 years of training should've paid off somewhat and taken out maybe 1/2 of the fighting force.

Obviously it isn't I who is lacking the understanding. It takes an outside perspective to anyalize the truth, not a biased individual who was involved such as yourself (no I'm not cutting on you but simply opening your eyes to reality). Its the same with Danny too, sure he's said things that have offended BUT you really can't blame him as we aren't seeing the current situation from his perspective and hearing the explosions seeing the pointless distruction to his home, etc... His perspective, just as yours has been warped by personal involvement.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by benebob

Yeah, the Arvin was just about to turn the corner right. After 12 years of training. It was really going to assume the defense of S.V.

They were definately holding their own. The N.V. anticipated the invasion taking 2 years. How long did it end up taking? Since you we're there I guess I don't need to post that for ya? That's anything but holding their own.

The funding was never cut off as you say. The balloon bill for what $500 million wasn't approved and that was introduced in the middle of the offensive so it wouldn't have done a darn thing as by the time one ship with oil would have gotten there it would have been acceptted by Viet Cong.

Yes, more Viet Cong would've been killed in days then the entire war up until that point but you're lacking the knowledge that HAD THE US broken the cease fire agreement China AND Russia would've entered the war. The North KNEW this and KNEW that the US wouldn't do a darn thing otherwise, they wouldn't have gone down the roads. Where were the Arvin when they were doing this. They had plenty of planes and helicopters. If it would've been such a turkey shoot then even those 12 years of training should've paid off somewhat and taken out maybe 1/2 of the fighting force.

You missed most of my key points. The first was that the peace (read liberal democrat) movement forced withdrawal of US forces prematurely and at a time that we were definitely winning militarily. We had been winning the war since TET of 1968. The major VC/NVA attacks in 68 and the NVA attack of 72 were great tactical blunders on the part of North Vietnam. However, the liberal media turned major military victories into physcological defeats for the US. All I need to substantiate this is for you to read North Vietnamese statements and writtings on the war----how they used our press and liberals to win the war.

The other point I made was that bombing would have been started again LONG BEFORE the NVA presence in the South became a significant factor. And you are wrong--Russia and China would not have entered the war based on that.

The last point you missed was that the disapproval for additional funding (as I recall it was $160M vs $500M) was a "devastating physcological defeat". It was a strong indicator that the US was going to hang them out to dry because of liberal political realities. The ARVN lost their will to resist facing this abandonment.

My involvement in Vietnam was on a totally different level than Dannys current status and I assure you that it was not clouded by my feelings. I could also discuss what we were doing wrong and what the RVN/ARVN contributed to the entire affair, but that is a totally different discussion and not for this online forum. However, my previous statements remain valid.

Lee

[lhopp77]

Will Rogers, who died in a plane crash with Wylie Post in 1935, was probably the greatest political sage this world has ever known. Enjoy the following:

1. Never slap a man who's chewing tobacco.

2. Never kick a cow chip on a hot day.

3. There are 2 theories to arguing with a woman...neither works.

4. Never miss a good chance to shut up.

5. Always drink upstream from the herd.

6. If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

7. The quickest way to double your money is to fold it and put it back in your pocket.

8. There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.

9. Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.

10. If you're riding' ahead of the herd, take a look back every now and then to make sure it's still there.

11. Lettin' the cat outta the bag is a whole lot easier'n puttin' it back.

12. After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral:
When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.

ABOUT GROWING OLDER...

First ~ Eventually you will reach a point when you stop lying about your age and start bragging about it.

Second ~ The older we get, the fewer things seem worth waiting in line for.

Third ~ Some people try to turn back their odometers. Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way. I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.

Fourth ~ When you are dissatisfied and would like to go back to youth, think of Algebra.

Fifth ~ You know you are getting old when everything either dries up or leaks.

Sixth ~ I don't know how I got over the hill without getting to the top.

Seventh ~ One of the many things no one tells you about aging is that it is such a nice change from being young.

Eighth ~ One must wait until evening to see how splendid the day has been.

Ninth ~ Being young is beautiful, but being old is comfortable.

Tenth ~ Long ago when men cursed and beat the ground with sticks, it was called witchcraft. Today it's called golf.

And finally ~ If you don't learn to laugh at trouble, you won't have anything to laugh at when you are old.

Lee

[Manarius]

Originally Posted by DanSVX94

Be mad at your fellow Lebanese for letting Hizbollah infilitrate your country.

Finally! Someone who speaks in some sort of logic! If you vote Terrorists into your government, you're responsible for the consequences! It's a hard thing to take in, but that's the way it is. If the Lebanese were really against Hezbollah and their terrorism, they would rise up and fight off these terrorists and the Lebanese government would send in troops to fight Hezbollah! It would be like a big giant civil war in Lebanon, but if that's what it takes to get rid of that group of terrorists then so be it. The US would be happy to supply the Lebanese government if they were willing to fight off Hezbollah.

The thing about the Middle East is that whoever has the biggest weapon is the one who rules. Right now, Israel has nukes and guns and tanks and they're the strongest. They're not going to take crap from Hezbollah, a bunch of terrorists like Al Qaida; only they try to parade around as a legitimate group of people.

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by Noir

Come now Robert, you know they are not cowards nor are they dumb. They're resorting to tactics that are minimizing their losses and maximizing their effectiveness (at least in their opinion).

The more destruction Lebanon receives, the better for them.

I'm sure the Brits thought we were cowards hiding in the forests setting traps and taking pot shots at their well disciplined traditional army. Idiotic would be standing up front as targets for the better funded, better equipped, and better trained military.

I fully agree. And we most certainly did the same thing. The difference is, we lived here. It was our home controlled by a foreign country. We were trying to take ownership from the Brits. Hizbollah isn't fighting for it's independence on land it feels belongs to them.

This particular scenario is like some foreign group coming into the U.S., and taking pot shots at Canada. Our government and people wouldn't stand for it. We would denounce them as terrorists on our own soil, and hunt them down as the criminals we would see them as.

Lebanon needs to see that, and throw them out. Is there any doubt how all of this began? Hizbollah did not have the authority to attack Israel. But Lebanon is paying the price.

Saying this is a religious thing is also ignoring the obvious. A tank, a couple of soldiers, and jailed political prisoners in Israel aren't religious items. It's a sad and false justification just as the crusades were a false justification for a land and asset grab.

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

This particular scenario is like some foreign group coming into the U.S., and taking pot shots at Canada. Our government and people wouldn't stand for it.

This of course does not dilute the fact that I fully support a government sanctioned invasion of Canada to free them from their evil dictators. Viva la revolutionary!!11!1!!1!.

[SubaSteevo]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Will Rogers, who died in a plane crash with Wylie Post in 1935, was probably the greatest political sage this world has ever known. Enjoy the following:

1. Never slap a man who's chewing tobacco.

2. Never kick a cow chip on a hot day.

3. There are 2 theories to arguing with a woman...neither works.

4. Never miss a good chance to shut up.

5. Always drink upstream from the herd.

6. If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

7. The quickest way to double your money is to fold it and put it back in your pocket.

8. There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.

9. Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.

10. If you're riding' ahead of the herd, take a look back every now and then to make sure it's still there.

11. Lettin' the cat outta the bag is a whole lot easier'n puttin' it back.

12. After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral:
When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.

ABOUT GROWING OLDER...

First ~ Eventually you will reach a point when you stop lying about your age and start bragging about it.

Second ~ The older we get, the fewer things seem worth waiting in line for.

Third ~ Some people try to turn back their odometers. Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way. I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.

Fourth ~ When you are dissatisfied and would like to go back to youth, think of Algebra.

Fifth ~ You know you are getting old when everything either dries up or leaks.

Sixth ~ I don't know how I got over the hill without getting to the top.

Seventh ~ One of the many things no one tells you about aging is that it is such a nice change from being young.

Eighth ~ One must wait until evening to see how splendid the day has been.

Ninth ~ Being young is beautiful, but being old is comfortable.

Tenth ~ Long ago when men cursed and beat the ground with sticks, it was called witchcraft. Today it's called golf.

And finally ~ If you don't learn to laugh at trouble, you won't have anything to laugh at when you are old.

Lee

There's some good advice in there.

On another note, it's stupid to argue about what could have/should have happened in Vietnam. Arguing that if so and so did such and such accomplishes nothing. Argue about what happened, but don't argue about what could have happened, because really you have no idea. If somehow you do know what would have happened, then I've got some lottery numbers that need picking.

[Duckie]

I refuse to accept the fact that I am responsible for Bush's actions, I refuse to accdept that I am the one spreading oppression to Peru, Haiti, and the more obvious countries. I live here but I do NOT accept their actions as correct. Does that mean I should rise up against our government? No, the majority of our people would not support me.

I can promise you that the amount of people in Lebanon who don't support the "terrorist" orginization are in the absolute minority. Many people, like Danny, had no affiliation to them and aren't even part of the religion yet now support them because of what they have seen. Rising up against them would not only be political suicide but also the old fashioned kind too.